NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 4

[Tristan]

Quoteed by DocWho3
"I do have other theories in mind as alternate possibilites but I can't speak of them for various reasons."

If you don't mind my asking, what is keeping you from discussing
these "alternate" possibilities??

I don't mean to pry, it's just that I find your posts very logical, informative
and well thought out.

 

[Sundayrain]

We also should ponder this. Laura Mackenzie has been missing in NH since March 8th. Another Manchester, NH area young girl. Are all missing girls going to be classified as runaways/voluntarily? There is no trace so far. No car, no use of her bank card. She was ready for college. She would have wanted to be home for a final call from her brother before he left to Iraq. There are WAY too many missing people in Vermont and NH.LE have to be better sleuths!

 

[armywife210]

We also should ponder this. Laura Mackenzie has been missing in NH since March 8th. Another Manchester, NH area young girl. Are all missing girls going to be classified as runaways/voluntarily? There is no trace so far. No car, no use of her bank card. She was ready for college. She would have wanted to be home for a final call from her brother before he left to Iraq. There are WAY too many missing people in Vermont and NH.LE have to be better sleuths!

I cannot say how much I agree with you on this point.
In my opinion NH has a problem that they don't want to admit.

 

[gatetrekker44]

Anyone who is familiar with Boxerz incredibly detailed map relating to the missing/murdered in the NH/VT area would definitely agree with with you, armywife210. When Boxerz info was made available, I had my ex-brother -in-law,who is an active LE member in Phila, look at the info that Boxerz had collected. Since he had no vested interest in these investigations, he gave me his unvarnished opinions as follows:

1. That at least in Maura and Brianna's cases, preconceived notions by LE in both cases severely hampered their effectiveness-and in Maura's case, the return to the family of her personal effects and then requesting them back MONTHS later for forensic testing was a joke-because by that time so many people had handled the items that any forensics would NEVER hold up in court should a criminal case ever be brought.

2. That at least in the past 8-10 years-considering the square mile area that the majority of the missing/murdered cases occurred in, that this area has a missing/murdered rate that rivals or exceeds that of cities with much larger populaions.

3. That there is a good chance there is a serial killer operating in this area-and is depending on the various usual "territoriality" of LE entities to aid in his/her being able to avoid detecion to this point! :furious:

 

[docwho3]

Anyone who is familiar with Boxerz incredibly detailed map relating to the missing/murdered in the NH/VT area would definitely agree with with you, armywife210. When Boxerz info was made available, I had my ex-brother -in-law,who is an active LE member in Phila, look at the info that Boxerz had collected. Since he had no vested interest in these investigations, he gave me his unvarnished opinions as follows:. . .

Thats cool but when I read of serial killers and L.E. considering whether they have one operating in an area they usually have been finding bodies and not just adding up missing persons /runaways and there has to be some sort of time limit involved or you end up with a case that reads like something out of the X Files. I am not sure we can so easily add in people not determined to be dead. If I added up all the missing persons from just my small city it could make it seem like a serial killer was operating but we haven't had bodies piling up or anything, just normal runaways.

Then when we look at possible serial killer based on dead bodies we need to look at whether there are already different known suspects or POI in some of those cases. That is something that usually only L.E. knows.

My opinion is that it is a big unsupported jump to go from missing to dead in Maura's case and a double jump to go from missing to dead to murder and a triple jump to go from missing to dead to murder to serial killer all without evidence of foul play in Maura's case. Now if they catch some guy and nail him for 2 or more murders on that stretch of road in the past 10 years and he was still operating in the area when Maura disappeared I would say someone needs to be looking hard at this guy for missing person cases in that stretch of road. But so far we don't have a such a person fo L.E. to investigate so far as I know. Thats just my opinion though. If you find such a guy I will vote to fry.

 

[docwho3]

Quoteed by DocWho3
"I do have other theories in mind as alternate possibilites but I can't speak of them for various reasons."

If you don't mind my asking, what is keeping you from discussing
these "alternate" possibilities??

I don't mean to pry, it's just that I find your posts very logical, informative
and well thought out.

Thank you for the kind words. Sorry for being so slow to respond. My power was off due to storms that passed through. I PM'd an answer to you. But mostly my reasons were various ones and not meant to be mysterious, things like not violating TOS, making sure of facts, wanting to give a theory lots of thought so I don't get too sloppy, and not wanting to accidently cause harm to an innocent persons reputation and so on.

 

[hydemi]

Doc's steps are a clear way to think about what may happened to Maura, if she was abducted and harmed as her family fears.

What is missing as much as Maura is the evidence in between each of the steps.

I had honestly thought we might hear something from the police investigation if indeed it has "criminal overtones" but it is finding the evidence to connect the steps above that is their grim task--if it exists.

 

[murraydwyer]

Going back to the almost beginning...I just came into possession of a copy of the initial press release issued by the Haverhill Police on Februrary 11, 2004. If you read the first available articles, it appears to be the basis for the information presented...Keep in mind that this was handed out on February 11, 2004:

On February 9, 2004, Sgt. Cecil Smith responded to a reported one-vehicle accident on Wild Ammonoosuc Road (Route 112) in Woodsville. Upon arrival at the accident scene, the Sergeant found an abandoned vehicle, a 1996 black Saturn sedan with a Massachusetts registration. A search of the area by Haverhill Police, State Police, and EMS officials did not locate the driver.

Witnesses at the scene reported seeing a lone female with no apparent injury, who appeared impaired due to alcohol consumption. When asked if she needed help, or the police to respond, she replied, “no”. The female left the scene prior to the arrival of emergency personnel.

A subsequent search of the vehicle indicates that the operator was Maura Murray, 21, of Hanson, MA. She was last seen wearing jeans and a dark colored coat. Ms. Murray is a white female with brown shoulder-length hair and blue eyes, approximately 5’7” tall and weighing about 120 pounds.

An intensive search for Murray is presently being conducted by the Haverhill Police Department, New Hampshire Fish and Game, and New Hampshire State Police, Troop F., as well as the New Hampshire State Police helicopter. It is believed that Murray may be enroute to the Kancamagus Highway area.

Murray is listed as endangered and possibly suicidal at this time.

The Haverhill Police Department is requesting the help of anyone that may have seen a female matching Murray’s description on the night of February 9, 2004 to present on or near Route 112 after the hour of 7:00 p.m. Please contact the Haverhill Police Department at 603-787-2222.

 

[docwho3]

While only the reporters can say what they used as a basis for the info in their articles (and we know some were quoting people and so not all info came from a press release read) I am pleased that you posted the press release. That seems most helpful. Thank you.

 

[murraydwyer]

I'm told that I was inaccurate in what I said above...it was not handed out, it was faxed to the media. I had forgotten that the press conference was not until much later........

 

[nnglas]

Was this information faxed to the media by the police department?

 

[Tristan]

The report said that she was endangered and possibly suicidal.

What, exactly, gave them the idea that she was suicidal??

 

[blueclouds]

Could she not have had one of those psychological trauma amnesias??? I've heard about them and a few years back, there was a girl around here who experienced one. If that maybe the case, she could still be alive.... and not know who she is.

this is truly one of the most unusual missing cases I've ever read. I'm sure her family have racked their brains for countless hours trying to figure all this out.

 

[Peabody]

The report said that she was endangered and possibly suicidal.

What, exactly, gave them the idea that she was suicidal??

The Haverhill Police told her family on the evening of 2/11/04 that they believed she was suicidal because:

1. She had mentioned a "death in the family" as an excuse in her emails to her professors and employers.

2. That she had purchased alcohol in Amherst and it was not in the car.

3. That Tylenol PM and either Aspirin or Ibuprofen (sorry, cannot recall which) was also found in the car.

You should also know that the news reports that say Fred Murray believed that Maura was suicidal are only partially correct: Mr. Murray paniced at the theory of the police that Maura was suicidal BECAUSE he had alway kidded his children that when he was too old to be of any use he was going to pull "the old squaw act" by taking a bottle of Jack Daniels into the mountains in the cold weather, sit down by a tree and end it all............he never believed that there was evidence that Maura was suicidal, but he was fearful for Maura and according to other family members, said something along the lines "Oh, my God, did she believe me about pulling the "squaw thing"?

It is also reported that Sharon Rausch questioned the police and was told that the alcohol and pills were the *main* reason they believed in the suicide theory. She told them that any female traveling has pills; many times, much more than just a sleep aid and a cross-the-counter pain pill for which she knew that Maura took since she had injured her hamstring in the fall of 2003.

The night of 2/11 there was no mention of the book "Without Peril" being part of the reason for the suicide theory. That additional *evidence* of suicide was later added by the NH SP and announced by Lt. Scarinza.

As to Maura being "endangered", I am assuming they meant that she was suicidal or possibly that she was intoxicated and out in the cold weather ????

My sources that know the family say there was no explanation as to the endangered description. They do know that is the description used by the UMass Police when they reported Maura's missing to the National Center for Missing Adults.

.

 

[Peabody]

Tonight 04/09/06 @ approximately 7 or 7:30 EST Maura will have been missing for 26 months. How dreadful for her family. I am certain they never imagined these 26 months ago that they would still have no answers as to what has happened to their lovely Maura.

I am so thankful that there is still much interest in her case.

Praying as always for comfort and strength for those those who love her and miss her and whose hearts are surely broken and whose lives will never be the same........also with hopeful prayers that there will soon be an answer to this mystery.

 

[redeskimo]

Tonight 04/09/06 @ approximately 7 or 7:30 EST Maura will have been missing for 26 months. How dreadful for her family. I am certain they never imagined these 26 months ago that they would still have no answers as to what has happened to their lovely Maura.

I am so thankful that there is still much interest in her case.

Praying as always for comfort and strength for those those who love her and miss her and whose hearts are surely broken and whose lives will never be the same........also with hopeful prayers that there will soon be an answer to this mystery.

Sorry peabody I stoped reading this link a long time ago .Nothing new . always the same . I hope you know the story about the wolf . one day there may be somthing new and nobody will read it .

 

[Peabody]

Sorry peabody I stoped reading this link a long time ago .Nothing new . always the same . I hope you know the story about the wolf . one day there may be somthing new and nobody will read it .

redeskimo,

Thank you for taking time to read and post on Maura's thread today - 26 months to the day that she went missing.

I do know the story of the little girl who lied/cried "Wolf" and then when there was a real wolf no one believed her ...............I guess I am just dense because I fail to see where that applies to this thread or Maura's case......?????

Sadly, you are absolutely correct: there is nothing new to report in Maura's case. However, there are many threads on this forum with no *new* information, but as with Maura's case there is considerable interest.

Hope you decide to check in occassionally and to add your two cents as well.

 

[murraydwyer]

Originally Posted by redeskimo
Sorry peabody I stoped reading this link a long time ago .Nothing new . always the same . I hope you know the story about the wolf . one day there may be somthing new and nobody will read it .

A few months ago I decided to 'remove' myself from the discussions on this thread and have tried to limit myself to correcting information. One of the reasons for that decision was that first, I am a member of the family (extended) and second, and a couple of posters made it quite clear that they did not appreciate 'posters' from Maura's site coming over to Websleuths (though I should point out that there was discussion on Websleuths many months before Maura's site was put up)...and then there was the most disturbing post...

It isn't fun for those of us trying to follow the thread and learn as much as possible, to gain insite into the situation and/or trying to form our own opinions, theories, etc., when we have to read thru bickering of those that want to insist their theory(ies) are the only correct ones.

I realized that many of my posts created some of this controversy...Peabody, Armywife, Gatetrekker, Hydemi and a few others have remained each in their own way trying to share information. Hydemi has always leaned toward the belief that Maura ran away...but has presented information and thoughts while also being considerate of the family...others have not been so kind.

I honestly don't know what redeskimo is implying by the comment above about 'crying wolf'...I only know my reaction to it........Read the information below and then join us at Maura's website and read the posts by Weeper (you can search for just those posts without signing up as others have found)...perhaps you will find new information to discuss here at Websleuths...

Shamshak and his colleagues looked at the case with a fresh set of eyes. Based on their investigation, Shamshak said, "It appears, just based on what I have reviewed with the other investigators from New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont that are part of the team, that this is something beyond a mere missing persons case. Something ominous could have happened here." ABC News 20/20

[Attorney General] Ayotte told The Associated Press Wednesday that she had not seen the lawsuit, which was filed last week, but that "we have shared whatever information we feel we can share without jeopardizing the investigation." She said that Maura Murray is still being treated as a missing person, but "it was a suspicious disappearance. We've treated the case very seriously." Caledonian Record

After the hearing, Senior Assistant Atty. Gen. Jeffery A. Strelzin, chief of his agency's homicide unit, said that as recently as two weeks ago state police, following up a lead, had searched an area for clues. Strelzin did not specify the search's whereabouts, except that it was not near where Maura Mullen's car was found. "You never know where you're going to end up as time goes by," Strelzin said. "There have been thousands and thousands of hours put into this. Sometimes there's a lot of activity, sometimes it's dormant. "But I would call (the case) active and open." Valley News 1/20/06 There is no link, to my knowledge this article did not appear online.

 

[hydemi]

The summary presented by MurrayDwyer is fair and accurate in my view, and the recent news bits presented from NH law and police do suggest a live investigation with criminal overtones.

My leaning toward the runaway theory is really more of a reaction to the lack of evidence for the others, especially suicide or a serial killer etc.

I cannot explain Maura going incognito away from family and friends without assuming something really dire had happened to her at UMASS.

I am hopeful that we will keep accumulating more data, more facts, more hints, more details that lead to finding Maura whatever has happened to her.

Some unknown or unanswered items for me include:

-what time exactly Maura had her accident in Swiftwater and how long she was there before Atwood's arrival.

-doing yet another search perhaps with ATT's help to identify the location of the caller to Lt Rausch's cellphone on 2/11/04 and if that call really was made on that date or got hung up in the network.

-how much money Maura really had with her or was it just the $280 withdrawn from the ATM?

-when Maura had last driven the 96 Saturn, and if she or Dad had checked it out on the weekend when they were car shopping together.

-the unnamed co worker or person who saw Maura at campus security earlier than the student (not a security worker) who made the 1am call to KMayotte about Maura being upset.

-the nature of any new searching being done today by NH investigators, and whether there are other suspects besides the ones known through the media reports such as Atwood and the contractor.

In my view no single theory has a lock on the few facts in Maura's case.

I feel the discussions on both Websleuths and Maura's site are mostly free ranging and open to all comers. It is up to any poster to do their own analysis and to state their views without being thin skinned when critiqued. Several folks on the Maura site think I am loony for steadfastly considering the possibility that Maura left the Swiftwater scene on foot, and could have made it a long way on foot that evening two years ago. It does not bother me if hooting and hollering erupts from the bleachers when I am at bat.

 

[Tristan]

Did the family ever hire a private investigator?

No one is searching for this girl, and that's really sad....whether she is
living happily somewhere or not. The family should have closure.

What have the group of PI's who volunteered their services come up with??

Anyone...?