NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[mnm55]

Just my opinion here--but on the rag in the tailpipe discussion...Fred Murray had said he told Maura to put the rag in the tailpipe because the car was not running correctly. IIRC there is a video of this interview on youtube. One can only assume the car was smoking and Fred thought that stuffing a rag in there would somehow disguise the amount of smoke. At first I thought to my old grandma self: "How ridiculous, what person, especially a man, would not know that the rag in the tailpipe is a ludicrous idea?" But then I thought back to my college days when one of my quite accomplished professors came into the lounge area wanting to know how to jump start his car. O.K. so I must admit there are some men that know nothing about cars. Well, at least Fred Murray and my professor.
I think the easiest explanation for the rag in the tailpipe goes full circle back to FM. Maura knew she made yet one more mistake (actually a few--leaving school for a week, lying about why she had to leave, taking a road trip without telling anyone, being involved in yet another accident, etc,) that her father was going to frown on. Before she left the scene she grabbed what she wanted to take out of the car and stuffed the rag in the tailpipe simply because her father had told her to do so just a few days prior. Having the rag in place per her dad's instructions would just be one less thing to get chewed out about when he would invariably arrive in NH to check out the damage to the car. That's my idea, and I am sticking to it

 

[scoops]

Just my opinion here--but on the rag in the tailpipe discussion...Fred Murray had said he told Maura to put the rag in the tailpipe because the car was not running correctly. IIRC there is a video of this interview on youtube. One can only assume the car was smoking and Fred thought that stuffing a rag in there would somehow disguise the amount of smoke. At first I thought to my old grandma self: "How ridiculous, what person, especially a man, would not know that the rag in the tailpipe is a ludicrous idea?" But then I thought back to my college days when one of my quite accomplished professors came into the lounge area wanting to know how to jump start his car. O.K. so I must admit there are some men that know nothing about cars. Well, at least Fred Murray and my professor.
I think the easiest explanation for the rag in the tailpipe goes full circle back to FM. Maura knew she made yet one more mistake (actually a few--leaving school for a week, lying about why she had to leave, taking a road trip without telling anyone, being involved in yet another accident, etc,) that her father was going to frown on. Before she left the scene she grabbed what she wanted to take out of the car and stuffed the rag in the tailpipe simply because her father had told her to do so just a few days prior. Having the rag in place per her dad's instructions would just be one less thing to get chewed out about when he would invariably arrive in NH to check out the damage to the car. That's my idea, and I am sticking to it

One other theory about the rag:

Police suggest to Fred what they think the rag implies and Fred (on the defensive) makes up a story to try and explain it away.

Just a theory.

 

[mnm55]

Police suggest to Fred what they think the rag implies and Fred (on the defensive) makes up a story to try and explain it away.

Why would Fred do that ? Just curious. It would seem to me (but what do I know?) that making a story up about the rag in the tailpipe would make LE question if everything else said was truthful. If it were me and it was my child missing, the last thing I would want to do is to lie about anything. Doing so would make an already confusing story just all the more convoluted.

But as I am somewhat on the subject...one thing that has always bothered me is a comment Fred made in an interview. I would love to get someone else's opinion on it. I posted it to J.Renner's blog but alas, it was never posted.

Fred said he intended on spending $4000.00 on another, more dependable, car for Maura. He said he and Maura had looked at several cars that weekend before she went missing in 2004. Fred stated that he and Maura had "settled on a 3 year old GEO Prizm" (his exact words in quotes and I will look for the video of the interview if someone wants to view it). That sent up red flags to me, in a major way. The last GEO Prizm rolled off the assembly line in 1997. So how did he make that mistake? Prizms were still made until 2002 but had been rebranded Chevy Prizm. And yes, I am still factoring in the fact that he didn't know much about cars--but that makes it even more obvious that something isn't right with his statement. It would certainly make more sense call a car a Chevy (a company that had been around almost 100 years at that time) than mistakenly call it a Geo--a little offshoot operation that lasted maybe 8 years--and that had been obsolete for 7 years by 2004. Furthermore, if you had just decided to buy a car the just a few days prior, who wouldn't remember what make and model the car was?

The only reason I bring it up is of course, the error made by Fred really bothered me, but also J.Renner has a theory that Fred and Maura did not intend on buying another car nor did they shop for cars that weekend. J. Renner alludes to the fact that Fred withdrew the $4000.00 to help Maura in some way and Fred felt a need to make up a reason for the withdrawal (other than the truth). If this theory is correct, I would tend to go with the fact that Fred was paying for Maura's attorney and/or court costs for her then recent credit card incident. I do not lean toward the theory others have that Fred withdrew the money to help Maura leave town. But who knows if I am right?

 

[Scravenger]

I'm a car guy and previous technician, and I thought it was a Geo Prism. Never knew it was changed to Chevy (and I'm a Chevy man...) I think if you've learned your daughter is missing, you might be somewhat in a fog and not remembering things absolutely clearly, and might revert to describing something the way it used to be for so long.

Without bashing Fred, there was something he said in that episode of Disappeared which bothered me, and I'd have to watch it again to remember exactly. Vaguely, it pertained to him being able to now save money because he didn't have to buy Maura a new car. Seemed a little odd. Maybe just the response of a nervous, helpless father who didn't know what to do and tried to find something positive/lighter to ease his worried mind.

Thanks for the timeline. Of course, it's only as accurate as the people telling it or when they called. If someone had abducted her, then called after she was secure, the timeline might still be the same, and we'd never know she was actually at the crash site at 8PM instead of 8:30PM (I'm just making up a time as an example), so that's 30 more minutes of time the police don't have to piece together what happened. Having her at the crash site longer opens up far greater possibilities for what happened to her. For instance, if she'd be on foot for 30 minutes, she could be miles away from the crash site when she was possibly struck by a car or fell in a ditch (or wandered deep into the wilderness looking for help (I doubt the latter happened), so searching for her in the immediate area of the crash site would be rather pointless. Timeline is a huge factor.

Funny...I don't recall the show indicating a man was smoking in her car. Any fingerprints or DNA from an extinguished cigarette?

As for the alcohol, if White Russians (or whatever those chemicals made) were her drink and what she wanted, then she'd really have no choice but to buy all those bottles to make it, even if she only would end up making one drink.

I really don't buy that she was trying to start a new life and ran off into the night. It really has no teeth, as far as I'm concerned. Abduction or accidental death in the wild makes more sense.

Using the K.I.S.S. Principle... She was in a crash and had consumed alcohol. She doesn't want the police called because she's nervous of a DUI charge. She locks up, walks away to get cellphone reception to call for AAA, a taxi or a known acquaintance in the area who can pick her up. The police show up, she hides in the woods or in someone's yard. The police leave, she jogs for miles trying to find a store/pay phone, and along the way something happens to her. That would also tie into that alleged call to her boyfriend being made using a prepaid calling card. Perhaps just as she figured out how the card worked and placed the call, someone grabbed her from behind and hung up the phone.

 

[scoops]

there is a lot of backstory and innuendo concerning the whole maura murray saga.

Comments made publically by police have been almost like hints into what they really believe without coming out and down right saying it.


IMO after having had poured through quotes, stories, who said what and when and what context, I have come up with a basic line of events starting from the maura's car accident in new hampshire.

This is all opinion.

Maura wrecks her saturn on a Monday night shortly after 7 p.m.

Police and fire respond, secure the scene and identify the owner of the vehicle and that is all they really have to do in a simple car accident investigation, even if the driver has fled the scene.

The next day (because there is no murder investigation going on, just a simple car accident investigation) the police finally get a hold of car's owner Fred Murray.

It is determined maura is missing.

Fred and several family members race towards the accident scene.

Upon arrival, fred wants to see a little more urgency out of police and explains that his daughter is not just missing but she is possibly suicidal. (this is backed up by sharon rausch (maura's boyfriend's mom who was also at the scene). And this is the million dolllar question. Fred, who was just with maura one day earlier would definitely have some credible insight into his daughter's current state of mind where most everyone else wouldn't. So was the suicide angle he threw out initially real or just his way of trying to get police to react more urgently about his daughter's case.

Police step up their efforts, report to the public that maura might be in danger and not just a person that fled a car accident hoping to avoid a DUI.

After a day or so, Fred is not liking the way things are going and he does a complete 180 and backtracks from ever bringing up the fact that maura may have been suicidal.

In the mean time the investigators are gathering info that supports a possible suicide such as the rag in the tailpipe. Fred quickly comes up with a story about the rag to divert the investigators from thinking that there is some teeth to the suicide theory that FRED initially brought up to them.

As investigators dig further, they find out about some recent troubles maura had been going through (Credit card issues, boyfriend issues etc.. ) They believe there is fuel to the suicide theory. Fred and family are in complete defense mode and begins saying the police are making everything up.

 

[scoops]

I'm a car guy and previous technician, and I thought it was a Geo Prism. Never knew it was changed to Chevy (and I'm a Chevy man...) I think if you've learned your daughter is missing, you might be somewhat in a fog and not remembering things absolutely clearly, and might revert to describing something the way it used to be for so long.

Without bashing Fred, there was something he said in that episode of Disappeared which bothered me, and I'd have to watch it again to remember exactly. Vaguely, it pertained to him being able to now save money because he didn't have to buy Maura a new car. Seemed a little odd. Maybe just the response of a nervous, helpless father who didn't know what to do and tried to find something positive/lighter to ease his worried mind.

Thanks for the timeline. Of course, it's only as accurate as the people telling it or when they called. If someone had abducted her, then called after she was secure, the timeline might still be the same, and we'd never know she was actually at the crash site at 8PM instead of 8:30PM (I'm just making up a time as an example), so that's 30 more minutes of time the police don't have to piece together what happened. Having her at the crash site longer opens up far greater possibilities for what happened to her. For instance, if she'd be on foot for 30 minutes, she could be miles away from the crash site when she was possibly struck by a car or fell in a ditch (or wandered deep into the wilderness looking for help (I doubt the latter happened), so searching for her in the immediate area of the crash site would be rather pointless. Timeline is a huge factor.

Funny...I don't recall the show indicating a man was smoking in her car. Any fingerprints or DNA from an extinguished cigarette?

As for the alcohol, if White Russians (or whatever those chemicals made) were her drink and what she wanted, then she'd really have no choice but to buy all those bottles to make it, even if she only would end up making one drink.

I really don't buy that she was trying to start a new life and ran off into the night. It really has no teeth, as far as I'm concerned. Abduction or accidental death in the wild makes more sense.

Using the K.I.S.S. Principle... She was in a crash and had consumed alcohol. She doesn't want the police called because she's nervous of a DUI charge. She locks up, walks away to get cellphone reception to call for AAA, a taxi or a known acquaintance in the area who can pick her up. The police show up, she hides in the woods or in someone's yard. The police leave, she jogs for miles trying to find a store/pay phone, and along the way something happens to her. That would also tie into that alleged call to her boyfriend being made using a prepaid calling card. Perhaps just as she figured out how the card worked and placed the call, someone grabbed her from behind and hung up the phone.

No the witness that said she thought she saw a "man smoking a cigarette" actually never said that at all.

She was on the phone talking to a 911 dispatcher trying to relay what she was seeing. Maura's car was actually up the road a little bit from the witnesses house and it was pitch black outside.

The witness told the 911 dispatch that she could see someone inside the car and a small red dot (light) and IMO, the 911 dispatch is probably the one who suggested could the red dot be the end of a cigarette and the witness likely said yes that could be it, so the 911 dispatch person types witness sees man inside car smoking a cigarette.

(at the time the witness wasn't sure if the driver was male or female or what the red dot she was seeing actually was it was a guess) and her husband who was looking out a completely different window, also saw the red dot light and he believed he was seeing a cell phone light.

 

[Scravenger]

Scoop, and that's the problem right there: You have a father who wants to see urgent action taken to find his daughter, so he might concoct whatever fantastic story he feels will generate the greatest response from the police. If so, suicide is the wrong approach, as it probably would prevent police from going door-to-door in the neighborhood and asking to search houses/structures for Maura, the way a simple missing person and possible abduction case would. Honesty is the best policy...there's a reason why that saying has endured. You only complicate matters by suggesting things that didn't really happen in the hopes it will evoke the response you're looking for.

In this case, if I'm the police and think she's intoxicated and suicidal, I'm just doing a search of the woods and knocking on doors asking if anyone's seen her. Whereas if I thought it was a "normal" missing person under mysterious circumstances, I'd be knocking on doors and asking to conduct a search of the premises for Maura. Fred may have unintentionally hindered/altered the shape of the investigation.

BTW, stuffing a rag in a tailpipe isn't a sound plan for suicide. If anything, it would stall the engine, not increase fumes in the driving compartment.

 

[OldSteve]

Don't know of any cellphones circa 2004 that had a red light? Green or yellow/green all I know of.

 

[OldSteve]

Scoops - what about mention that the SBD parked his bus differently that night. Didn't a neighbor say it was the first time it was ever parked like that?
Also, did he normally go back out to his bus after coming home like he did that night?

Also didn't SBD mention that MM spoke to him from behind an inflated airbag (yet airbags don't remain inflated long enough to this to have happened)..

 

[neverletgo]

Don't know of any cellphones circa 2004 that had a red light? Green or yellow/green all I know of.

This got me thinking . . . Scoops, was it you that had/has the same make/model as Maura's cell phone and posted something about the lights on it?

 

[Scravenger]

Didn't some of the old cellphones have a plastic antenna with a tip that lit up red, green or amber? Or was that portable home phones? Maybe someone local had their home phone on them and was making a call. Or, the car alarm had a red blinking light on the dash/door, like so many do.

Didn't hear about the SBD parking differently. You have to look at things like that; when someone's normal routine/behavior suddenly changes.

Also, let's say she was more intoxicated than we know, and she knocked on the door of someone who could tell she had been drinking, and that home owner is still outraged that a loved one of theirs was killed years ago by a drunk driver, yet the drunk driver got off virtually scott free? Maybe seeing this now-drunk driver who just crashed set them off and so they got "justice" for their loss by killing/capturing Maura. Point being, run background checks on everyone in the general vicinity to see if anyone had a reason to react aggressively against Maura.

 

[EyesOnSunday]

Scoops - what about mention that the SBD parked his bus differently that night. Didn't a neighbor say it was the first time it was ever parked like that?
Also, did he normally go back out to his bus after coming home like he did that night?

Also didn't SBD mention that MM spoke to him from behind an inflated airbag (yet airbags don't remain inflated long enough to this to have happened)..

By saying "inflated" he may have meant "deployed." However, I do still feel that there is more to his involvement in that night than we are aware of.

 

[BennyHill2012]

The SBD driver had been investigated thoroughly due to his being the last person known to have had direct contact with Maura. There was no evidence to suggest he knew any more than what he offered in the early days of the investigation. My gut tells me if there was foul play there, the SBD makes the most sense, but the evidence has not been there. It is just baffling...

 

[SyraKelly]

Hi Everyone-I have been interested in this case for yrs off and on.I came across Renner's blog from someone here yesterday and I can't find the name of the person to say Thank you.I first would like to ask all of you what you think of Renner's blog?
Then-I read on his blog that Maura's mother had cancer at the time she went missing-does anyone know if this is true?Oh and does anyone know if the dog tracked her going towards the BD's house or away from it?
MO-She went to NH to met someone and is still alive!!
TIA

 

[scoops]

Scoop, and that's the problem right there: You have a father who wants to see urgent action taken to find his daughter, so he might concoct whatever fantastic story he feels will generate the greatest response from the police. If so, suicide is the wrong approach, as it probably would prevent police from going door-to-door in the neighborhood and asking to search houses/structures for Maura, the way a simple missing person and possible abduction case would. Honesty is the best policy...there's a reason why that saying has endured. You only complicate matters by suggesting things that didn't really happen in the hopes it will evoke the response you're looking for.

In this case, if I'm the police and think she's intoxicated and suicidal, I'm just doing a search of the woods and knocking on doors asking if anyone's seen her. Whereas if I thought it was a "normal" missing person under mysterious circumstances, I'd be knocking on doors and asking to conduct a search of the premises for Maura. Fred may have unintentionally hindered/altered the shape of the investigation.

BTW, stuffing a rag in a tailpipe isn't a sound plan for suicide. If anything, it would stall the engine, not increase fumes in the driving compartment.

You are so right that if Fred suggested that his daughter was suicidal hoping that would get a much more focused response from police, then that was sadly mistaken. The resources are just not there to deal with an adult voluntarily going missing as they would be someone being abducted or especially a young female child being snatched away.

But I tend to believe Fred was being sincere.

Maura did have some big issues going on, to include her melt down at work just a few nights earlier.

If her security monitor supervisor wasn't embelishing in describing maura that night (being in a canatonic state and just staring blankly ahead) then that is a big red flag that something is very wrong. People get upset all the time, but they don't become zombie-like very often.

Throw in some other issues.

If maura was involved in the hit and run that took place just an hour before she was found in her zombie-like state at work, then that would honestly tie up several loose ends (like why her father may have really whisked into town with 4,0000 that weekend) And why maura was traumatized and why maura went on to have a wreck in her father's car and why maura turned to drinking and driving.

But that is all speculation and no one has truly looked into the situation enough to be able to prove or disprove maura's involvement (concerning the hit and run) I am confident of that.

 

[scoops]

Scoops - what about mention that the SBD parked his bus differently that night. Didn't a neighbor say it was the first time it was ever parked like that?
Also, did he normally go back out to his bus after coming home like he did that night?

Also didn't SBD mention that MM spoke to him from behind an inflated airbag (yet airbags don't remain inflated long enough to this to have happened)..

I think it's actually just an innocent ordeal.

I do believe that the school bus driver on most every night parked his bus close to the road right alongside his wife's/live-in girlfriends. (I have seen photos to back that up)

On that particular night, It has been stated that a witness saw him back the bus all the way up the house, but I would think that would be because he was in a hurry to notify his wife/girlfriend and have her call 911 about the girl stranded in the road.

I have read that he was really concerned with how she and her car were in the road. (Maura was in a dark colored car on a dark road with part of it sticking out in the road). The SBD felt like she was in danger of being struck by an on-coming car.

He told Maura to turn on her flashers.

I have no clue if he routinely went back to his bus to fill out paperwork.
He was working that night, (took some school kids on a ski trip I believe) so it's possible that he had paperwork to fill out when he was done.

I don't remember off hand the order, the SBD's wife/girlfriend I am thinking worked for the police (not an officer but support staff) and the SBD's mother who also lived with the couple, was a nurse.

So honestly, If I had a wreck and was stranded, I would take my chances with a house where the residents are a school bus driver, someone that works for the police and a nurse. Pretty respectable careers. And it is highly possible that the SBD's father or grandfather was a decorated police officer as well that was killed in the line of duty.

 

[scoops]

By saying "inflated" he may have meant "deployed." However, I do still feel that there is more to his involvement in that night than we are aware of.

I've analyzed this before by taking every single quote known that was made by th SBD and fusing them together.

(keep in mind that reporters ask different questions, so answers may appear different from someone, when really it's just the way the questions are asked) So I don't believe the SBD was every being deceitful personally.


What I gather is that he apporached her car, pulled up right beside it with his bus literally blocking the east-bound lane off. He opened his bus door and attempted to make contact with maura. Maura attempted to open her driver's door, but couldn't get it open because a snow bank was preventing the door from opening (this also eliminates the possibility that maura hit trees with her car because her car was in between a snow bank and the nearby trees), maura rolled down her passenger window and the two talked briefly. At no time did the SBD get out of his bus. SBD then proceeded to drive his bus home. Witnessess saw a person (alone) at maura's car moving around quickly. the witnesses saw maura's dome light inside her car come on and then off, they also saw the person move from the front of the car to the back and open the trunk then close it. Shortly after the person was gone and all that was left at the scene was the locked up saturn.

This is all my interpretation after comparing notes and quotes.

 

[scoops]

I have been re-looking into the weather for that night that maura had her wreck.
You be the judges. I think it may have been colder than what has been historically reported.

According to farmer's almanac
Monday Feb 9, 2004 --- (nearest weather station findings)
High --- 35.6
Low ---- (-7.6)

Tuesday Feb 10, 2004
High ---- 35.6
Low ----- 28.4

Common sense would say that if tuesday's low was 28.4 degrees that means that around midnight (very end of monday, very start of tuesday) , the coldest if could've been was 28 degrees.

Yet maura's father and maura's boyfriend's mother each have stated that it was 12 degrees out and dropping at the time maura had her wreck just after 7 p.m. that monday.

So someone is off here, and I really don't know who.

But if it was 12 degrees and dropping, then maura would have to find some shelter pretty quickly I would imagine and would be at risk for succumbing to the elements.

 

[scoops]

This got me thinking . . . Scoops, was it you that had/has the same make/model as Maura's cell phone and posted something about the lights on it?

Here is a link to the exact model and phone that maura had.



http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=318

My cell phone basically just leaves a small whiteish reflectivce light when in a dark room.

 

[Riot]

This got me thinking . . . Scoops, was it you that had/has the same make/model as Maura's cell phone and posted something about the lights on it?

This was me. I'm working on getting pictures of the phone and should have them this weekend.

There is a red light on the outside of the "flip-up" portion of the phone. I've gotten this light to turn on for a split second while I turn the phone on and also to stay on continuously while charging. I don't have Sprint, so I can't make a call on the phone to test whether it comes on while making a call, but based upon the behavior of the light, I would assume that it comes on during a call too. The keys on the phone have a green backlight.