NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[McSpy]

Just to go off in a different direction -
each case I follow has something that stands out as unique, and bugs me because it's something I can't understand.
All the events that happened before she left on her fateful trip, I see as the momentum building up to get her to take off.

The thing I cannot figure out is why would MM go on such a trip alone on the road in car that was in such poor shape?! Now if it was going to be a one-way trip, then it makes sense to me (but if so why take her school work, and why no note).
Another way (driving a car in bad shape) is if she knew someone was going to follow her route a bit later, and if she broke down would pick her up...

OldSteve, I'm still stuck on the fact she seemed highly emotional and was acting on impulse. In my opinion, she was throwing caution to the wind. I don't think she was thinking straight. She just needed to get away. JMO

 

[McSpy]

very good point about throwing caution to the wind.

There is no good reason in the world (that I can come up with) that any person would take a car in the middle of winter that is either on its last leg or about to die and drive hours away into the mountains ... that cared anymore (about their own safety or well-being) especially a young female traveling alone.

Just something to ponder. One of the gazillion red flags that helped me lean towards the suicide theory concerning maura

Once again JUST MY OPINION

Scoops, keep in mind, just because she was a young woman doesn't mean she was immune to throwing caution to the wind or being reckless. Sometimes young women do get into bad situations by acting emotional and/or too careless. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Riot, and i completely mean this. I love the way you get down to brass tax and go after info.


the one counter-argument I would have to these points is that (and I don't mean you, I am speaking in general terms) Go ask Petrit Vasi's mom what kind of investigation was done by police into her son's hit and run and she would probably laugh or cry one or the other.

It was only after the fact, when a couple of media outlets began trying to put two and two together that mauras name was even mentioned in the same sentences as Petrit Vasi. (with no serious accident scene investigation done, do you think police are going to want to go and look over campus security tapes? Even if they found something to maura, they had no evidence at the actual hit and run location to tie her or anyone else to the responsible party by their own admission.

Police don't even know for sure if Vasi was hit by a car or attacked by a bunch of UMASS hooligans. How bizzare is that. If a hit and run happens, I have never heard of there being no evidence left behind at the scene from the car that smashed into the person ... yet police don't have a clue if he was hit by a car?? very suspicious in my opinion. or very telling of how police handled a young drunk/hammered college student found laying in road.

Was he found in the road in a busy area where businesses reside? If so, there could have been cameras there.

 

[McSpy]

Also, to other readers:

Please don't halt any other discussion about this case while I'm picking at minor details about the weekend before Maura went missing. I still think finding out what happened to Maura in NH is more important, but because I'm local to UMass, this is what I can do at the moment that may be of some help to someone interested in this case.

Riot, thanks for your help and input!

 

[McSpy]

haha,

I will be your tag team partner anytime.

However, I am not very optimistic when it comes to getting absolute results.

I just think most stones have been overturned by now in this case. I don't believe for one second any kind of active investigation is on-going (into Maura).


Back to Vasi.


just a pair observations to throw out ---- going off of his public interviews and statements.


Vasi absolutely gives the impression that he doesn't want to know if maura was involved. He just wants to move on with his life.

His injuries as described by him were all to one side of his body up and down (consistent with being struck by a vehicle and not from being thrown from a moving car (car surfing) and not from having his face smashed in my a bunch of holligans.


Also by the way, the reason I brought up Rao's coffee the other night, because that was one of the places maura called (while on shift) from her cell phone. Obviously, if she was placing a order (call was 3 minutes long so very likely), then she would either have to leave her post to go pick it up or they delivered to her.

Some have said UMASS has a special delivery service of college workers which deliver for all the local businesses downtown, so maybe that is how she got her order.

Her order to Rao's coffee came within the first hour of her shift.

BBM

If he landed hard on one side then rolled from car surfing or something similar, he could have been hurt on one side, IMO. The question is whether he ever car surfed. Seems like a legit question to ask him. If he had never car surfed, then something else may have happened.

 

[McSpy]

I am almost 100 percent certain that this was reported regularly that classes were cancelled, because I recall posters on other boards speculating what maura was up to that friday since no one ever hears much about that day.


Well, for now, this is the best I could do (pull out of my behind)



Feb. 6, 2004

AMHERST, Mass. - The University of Massachusetts women's tennis team will not play their match tonight against Binghamton, due to inclement weather. The match, scheduled to be played at 7:30 at the Bay Road Tennis Center, may be made up at a later date.


So that Friday night sports were being cancelled because of the weather and fred was there the next morning coming from a few hours away.

I drive up north to go skiing in worse weather. Maybe Fred had something going on the next weekend and didn't think the forecast was that bad to head west to UMassAmherst. His actions don't seem that unusual to me. JMO

 

[scoops]

BBM

If he landed hard on one side then rolled from car surfing or something similar, he could have been hurt on one side, IMO. The question is whether he ever car surfed. Seems like a legit question to ask him. If he had never car surfed, then something else may have happened.

he and his friend were actually asked about car surfing.

Vasi doesn't ever remember car surfing and the friend (guy's house he had been at that night) knows for a fact he wasn't driving vasi around in a car. Vasi had come to the person's house on foot.

 

[scoops]

I was able to locate that article with the info you gave. It definitely could provide an explanation!

Current Course Description:
325 – Maternal-Newborn Nursing 2 cr
This course introduces the student to the theory and practice of maternal-newborn nursing care for families in the
childbearing year. Both uncomplicated and high-risk pregnancy, birth, postpartum, lactation, and newborn care are
discussed.

I would say that fetal alcohol syndrome is "high-risk." (I remember reading that this is what she was looking up.)

I notice you don't post links often. (Not trying to call you out, promise!) Is there a forum protocol I'm breaking by doing so myself?

No!

Link away to your hearts content.

I love links but I also love quotes (because as long as you can take them in context) they are the most factual bits of info you can come across on anything.

 

[scoops]

Once again, for disucssion purposes, I am going to re-post Maura's phone records from the thursday night she was working as dorm monitor.

Maura Murray Cell Phone Calls

Thur Feb 5 ==== (Call in to Maura) --- 7:17 p.m. to 7:37 p.m.

Thur Feb 5==== (Maura calling out) --- Amherst last four 9411 ---- 8:40 p.m. to 8:43 p.m.

Thur Feb 5 ====(Maura calling out) --- New City, NY last four 8290 ---- 9:09 p.m.

Thur Feb 5 ====(Maura calling out) --- New City, NY last four 8290 ---- 9:55 p.m.

Thur Feb 5 === (Call in to Maura) --------- 9:56 p.m. to 10:02 p.m.

Thur Feb 5 = (Maura calling out) --- Hanover, Ma last four 7271 --- 10:10 p.m. to 10:38 p.m.

Fri Feb 6 === (Maura calling out) – New City, NY last four 8290 – 12:07 a.m. to 12:14 a.m.

Fri Feb 6 === (Maura calling out) – Amherst last four 8911 ---- 3:40 a.m. to 3:42 a.m.


Domino’s Pizza --- Amherst, Ma (413) 256-8911
Rao’s Coffee --- Amherst, Ma (413) 253-9411
Hanover, Mass --- Confirmed number of Maura’s older sister

West Point is approx. 22 miles from New City, New York.

Billy, although in Oklahoma at the time, would likely have started a cell plan while he was at West Point and it would follow him no matter where he moved and show up as New City, NY whenever he called someone.

 

[OldSteve]

Just for discussion - I agree it's possible that MM was in such a state that she didn't care about taking her shaky car on that trip...

But what do you think about my point that if she was suicidal, would she be so cautious with the SBA? I see that a person interested in preserving her life.

 

[scoops]

Just for discussion - I agree it's possible that MM was in such a state that she didn't care about taking her shaky car on that trip...

But what do you think about my point that if she was suicidal, would she be so cautious with the SBA? I see that a person interested in preserving her life.

I just don't see it that way at all.

I think (Pure guess by the way) that maura was making an attempt to free herself and get out of dodge at the time the SBD approached the accident.

When he approached, she had to freeze her exit plans. I don;t think at anytime whatsover that she was afraid of the SBD.

But in no way would she want him to get the police out there, she would be screwed royally. They would come, she would likely get locked up and very likely her father would've been notified and her whole plans (whatever they were would've been squashed).


I think she fed that story to the SBD, in hopes he would just leave the scene and let her be.

i think she quickly realized, especially when he went to his house which was just a little ways down the road, that she had to get out of dodge on foot and abandon the car because the cops were coming.

I think its highly telling, that she took alcohol with her but left her clothes and valuables behind.

She also had to know that her time-frame to escape (not just neccesairly to go commit suicide but whatever theory you want to believe she was in that area for) was working against her at that point.

By abandoning her car, she had to know that her gig would be up sooner rather than later and that it would get back to her father and family.

 

[Skigirl]

Hey Riot, Welcome -- it is really nice to see some fresh perspective on this thread.

I think that she probably did have some sort of substance abuse problem -- whether it was food or alcohol or something else -- I can't as easily write off the credit card charges for food, or the reports that she drank Bailey's in her coffee, or her being asked to leave West Point. That being said, I'm not sure it's anything more than a minor contributing factor to her overall state of mind. I think that her overall state of mind put her in the situation she was in -- on a lonely road in winter in a rickety car with no one, or at least no one we know of, aware of her whereabouts, and then an accident.

In any event, what I'm wondering is what you make of the reported state of her room -- completely packed up. Do you buy the idea that she just hadn't unpacked yet? Do you think she had packed up everything? If she had packed, then, do you think she was dropping out? It's the one piece that I think is really strange about the case. Were it me, it would be easily explained by my not unpacking yet because I was too busy (I've done that before after moving -- pulling just a few essentials out and leaving the boxes until I had more time), but I've never seen it confirmed that students have to remove their things from their room over winter break. I went to one of the other five colleges before transferring to a different school my second year, and my recollection was that we did not have to remove our things between first and second semester, unless we were switching rooms.

-SG

 

[Riot]

Hey Riot, Welcome -- it is really nice to see some fresh perspective on this thread.

I think that she probably did have some sort of substance abuse problem -- whether it was food or alcohol or something else -- I can't as easily write off the credit card charges for food, or the reports that she drank Bailey's in her coffee, or her being asked to leave West Point. That being said, I'm not sure it's anything more than a minor contributing factor to her overall state of mind. I think that her overall state of mind put her in the situation she was in -- on a lonely road in winter in a rickety car with no one, or at least no one we know of, aware of her whereabouts, and then an accident.

In any event, what I'm wondering is what you make of the reported state of her room -- completely packed up. Do you buy the idea that she just hadn't unpacked yet? Do you think she had packed up everything? If she had packed, then, do you think she was dropping out? It's the one piece that I think is really strange about the case. Were it me, it would be easily explained by my not unpacking yet because I was too busy (I've done that before after moving -- pulling just a few essentials out and leaving the boxes until I had more time), but I've never seen it confirmed that students have to remove their things from their room over winter break. I went to one of the other five colleges before transferring to a different school my second year, and my recollection was that we did not have to remove our things between first and second semester, unless we were switching rooms.

-SG

Hi SG!

Personally, I do buy that she hadn't unpacked yet. Now, I'm a guy, so I can see how Maura may not act exactly like I do, but this past summer I moved to house-sit a place for weekdays while I worked at an internship. When I was there for 2/2.5 months, the only thing I unpacked was dishes. I'm a mess, so you could see clothes move from suitcase to laundry basket, but when I went home for the week, I'm almost certain you'd think I was packed up to move. The dorm situation is a little different, but I've read that Maura was a clean person, so I definitely see her being too busy to unpack and just tidying up before she left in case an RA or some one came into her room to check on something. If I wasn't living with my SO right now, I'd still be living out of a suitcase. Now, you might ask, "Why the printed out emails left on top of everything?" I completely agree that she was working through some issues. If I were in a similar place, I could see myself printing out the emails to have something tangible to focus on. This might not be the case with MM, but I can see it as a distinct possibility. I have not been able to find information that a UMass dorm room needs to be completely vacated, just that you can't live there over the break. Plausible explanation 1: MM was worried about her stuff getting stolen over break. Plausible explanation 2: MM didn't keep a lot of stuff in her dorm room. Good question to ask: Do we know for certain that MM didn't change rooms between Fall 2003 and Spring 2004? (Are singles always available for juniors? I don't know, but I know who to ask.)

In regards to taking an unsafe car, I'm of the same mindset as McSpy: caution to the wind. When I was about her age, I drove a car that I was in a major accident with for 3 years without getting it properly repaired. I finally had to get rid of it because my parents "borrowed" it and took it to a mechanic, who basically declared it a deathtrap. I can see MM needing to get away and taking the most readily available mode of transportation. Devil's advocate: If she were, say, planning to commit suicide in a meaningful location, wouldn't she pick a more reliable way to get there? I don't see how the unreliable car plays into any scenario more than another. All I feel we can take from the fact that she took her own car is that she really felt like she needed to get away.

It can be dangerous to attribute one's own actions and values to others, but I think that it is useful when determining plausibility of actions, just not probability.

As for the "Bailey's in her coffee" comment, all we know is that she enjoyed an Irish coffee, which is not the same thing as requiring an Irish coffee. (Though, as far as I know, we have no indication how far toward the "requiring" end of the spectrum she was.)

 

[Riot]

Actually, and I'm going to check with someone who does live at UMass, I think you do need to remove your belongings when you leave for the end of Fall semester:

"Failure to Remove Belongings and Return Key
Any student who fails to check out properly between semesters or prepare the vacant space in their room for spring semester will be assessed an improper check out fee. An official check-out includes removing all of your belongings from the space and turning in your key to the Residential Service Desk."
http://www.housing.umass.edu/assign/rates.html

 

[OldSteve]

Don't think there was any real booze/substance abuse by her. She was a accomplished runner.

 

[Riot]

Don't think there was any real booze/substance abuse by her. She was a accomplished runner.

I think this is a difficult correlation to make, but it definitely is one reason why I believe she didn't have a problem with alcohol. I knew another runner that had an incident with alcohol that got the runner removed from the team for several seasons, but I don't think that person had any kind of serious substance abuse problem.

"Alcohol abuse is when your drinking leads to problems, but not physical addiction." - Medical Encyclopedia

 

[shefner]

I don't normally post here on Maura's thread but I felt the need to say that I believe Maura did have an alcohol problem. I think its evident that drinking was effecting her life....and not in a good way.
What problems led her to drinking? Now that's worth finding out....

 

[scoops]

Actually, and I'm going to check with someone who does live at UMass, I think you do need to remove your belongings when you leave for the end of Fall semester:

"Failure to Remove Belongings and Return Key
Any student who fails to check out properly between semesters or prepare the vacant space in their room for spring semester will be assessed an improper check out fee. An official check-out includes removing all of your belongings from the space and turning in your key to the Residential Service Desk."
http://www.housing.umass.edu/assign/rates.html

The police rounded up a fellow nursing student (Same class schedule and who also lived in the dorm) and showed her maura's room and the fellow nursing student has noted that it looked like maura was moving out permanently.

Plus everything (boxes of maura's stuff) was on the bed.

Does maura sleep on top of the stacked boxes at night?

 

[Riot]

No, but she might put boxes onto her bed if she were trying to tidy up before being gone for a week. (Not saying that we have any evidence for this, but I rate this a plausible act.)

The only way that the other student could make that claim and have it be credible is if she had seen Maura's room prior to that Monday. From what I've read, the student asked seems to just be projecting her dorm-unpacking attitudes on Maura. Was that student also a reported "very clean" (no source at this time, but I feel we've all read this) person who worked two jobs and spent at least one of two weekends back at school with a family member who was in town?

 

[scoops]

No, but she might put boxes onto her bed if she were trying to tidy up before being gone for a week. (Not saying that we have any evidence for this, but I rate this a plausible act.)

The only way that the other student could make that claim and have it be credible is if she had seen Maura's room prior to that Monday. From what I've read, the student asked seems to just be projecting her dorm-unpacking attitudes on Maura. Was that student also a reported "very clean" (no source at this time, but I feel we've all read this) person who worked two jobs and spent at least one of two weekends back at school with a family member who was in town?

And does maura leave herself notes (for when she is to come back)?

Kind of odd to have an email (dealing with infiedlity) on her bed left for herself for when she returns from ... vacation?