NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[Jerri Blank]

FWIW,

Maura had with her:

1. --- 2004 Health Professionals Drug Guide
2. --- Mosby's Pharmacology in Nursing Textbook (not sure on the edition likely it was the (20th or 21st edition)

3. ---- 1 (150 sheet) white paper notebook

This was her "School Work" that she brought with her.

The mosby textbook is huge and likely not a book you carry in your backpack when you don't have to, so therefore keeping it in a car makes sense.

I believe (maybe someone else can verify) the drug guide is a pure reference book and not a textbook.


As far as clothes, maura had one gray pair of sweatpants and a black sweater/northface style top packed (very similar and very likely the exact same outfit she is wearing in a posed picture with her father while on a summit of a mountain taken what I believe to be sometime not too long from when she went missing (like a few months earlier)

Outside of the sweater and sweats and underclothing and a few pair of shoes (1 pair of running and the shoes she had on which were casual blue/gray tennis shoes) This is all the clothes that maura packed for her trip.

Is this someone that was going away for a week-long vacation?

Even better yet, is this someone that was going away to start a new life (with one pair of sweats and a sweater)?

thanks for the info. i didnt know what she had exactly packed and there is no way i can go back and read all the posts to find whats relevant.

as far as the books go, i think an argument could be made either way... perhaps that was her most reading intensive class and she figured that was the one she would fall behind in most taking a few days off. the drug guide may have been a supplement to the textbook. i remember quite a few courses that required multiple textbooks draining my bank account when i was in school.

the clothes could also be argued either way since, as no one knew she was taking a trip, there's no way of knowing how long she really intended to be gone. she may have planned to miss a week of classes but figured on only staying in NH/VT a night or 2. i have never been to haverhill, NH, but i can tell you that i made the amherst to burlington trip many weekends (up saturday morning, down sunday evening) when i was at UMass and my bf at the time was at St. Mike's.

i am not trying to be contrary, just trying to consider other angles. i could make just as many arguments for how probable it is that she did leave intending to do harm to herself and how she likely succeeded.

i suppose that is why this case frustrates and fascinates me so much...

 

[scoops]

thanks for the info. i didnt know what she had exactly packed and there is no way i can go back and read all the posts to find whats relevant.

as far as the books go, i think an argument could be made either way... perhaps that was her most reading intensive class and she figured that was the one she would fall behind in most taking a few days off. the drug guide may have been a supplement to the textbook. i remember quite a few courses that required multiple textbooks draining my bank account when i was in school.

the clothes could also be argued either way since, as no one knew she was taking a trip, there's no way of knowing how long she really intended to be gone. she may have planned to miss a week of classes but figured on only staying in NH/VT a night or 2. i have never been to haverhill, NH, but i can tell you that i made the amherst to burlington trip many weekends (up saturday morning, down sunday evening) when i was at UMass and my bf at the time was at St. Mike's.

i am not trying to be contrary, just trying to consider other angles. i could make just as many arguments for how probable it is that she did leave intending to do harm to herself and how she likely succeeded.

i suppose that is why this case frustrates and fascinates me so much...

Amen.

I definitely have my theory.

But honestly, right now, I am just trying to keep fact from fiction the best way I can. I'm not even that interested in discussing theories on what may or may have not taken place.

And I don't claim to know everything, but I am trying to do my best to distinguish between what is factual, what is assumption and what is just plain wrong.

 

[OldSteve]

As I understand, at least one of the couples looking out their window quit looking once the SBD arrived on scene. They figured the SBD was handling the situation and they went on back to their lives. Another couple looking out their window saw a single person at maura's car after the SBD had left the scene and I believe they are also the ones to note seeing the SBD back his bus up to the front door of his house.

I personally have been to the accident scene. I am not certain, but i Would say (pretty sure) that if the SBD was near his front door of his house or on his bus near his house, that his visual of the accident scene would no longer exist.

The atwoods had a tree-line that blocked their view to the west from their house. his closest neighbor (on his side of the road, the couple that first called 911) can't see his house and vice versa because of the trees.

He would've only been able to see in front of him which would be the road right by his driveway and then east of that. Maura's car ended up just west of the atwoods house and on the opposite side of the tree-line from the atwood's house.

Thanks as always for your perspective! So it sounds like each might have thought the other was keeping and eye out for her, and turns out no one really was... sad twist of fate!

 

[McSpy]

BBM:
Goes along with what I mentioned about if the SBD was so concerned about her safety, and stayed outside while his live in gf called 911, wouldn't he have been watching her?

Now as far as the SBD paying the price for being a good Samaritan, that is the price you pay, and where I live on a busy street every now and then a car will run into something. While I quickly call PD, I'm reluctant (unless I can really be of help) run out to become directly involved for fear of getting involved with someone who might be drunk, crazy, or whatever... but either I or my wife keep watch till LE arrives. So I can see the SBD keeping distance...

So I can understand no one standing outside and being right with her, but what I find strange that once PD is called, no
one remains clued to their window watching?

I know what you mean, but all one has to do is to look away for a minute to miss something. It was so dark that evening too. They probably assumed she was sitting in the car, but she slipped away. JMO

 

[Scravenger]

BTW, I may have been mistaken about Fred's assertion to the police early on that she may be suicidal. It just may have been a smart move on his part. I recently watched a couple of episodes of Cold Blood on Netflix, and in one episode an officer mentioned that if the person filing the missing person's report hadn't mentioned the adult person may be suicidal, he would not have been able to file the report for something like 48 hours. So, maybe Fred did what he thought would get the more immediate response. Even if police aren't searching homes, at least they're searching somewhere sooner rather than later.

 

[Scravenger]

I think the bus driver was just a witness. Here are some reasons why I think he is innocent of any crime against Maura:

His recollections weren't entirely consistent, but I think the reason is because he didn't commit his brief encounter with Maura to memory. We encounter strangers all the time. Do we recall all the details about them a day or 2 later? I don't think he predicted at the time that he was going to be interrogated about his encounter with Maura.
JMO

You know, it's funny you should say that. The other day while driving home, a women was walking in the breakdown lane of opposing traffic with a gas can in her hand. About 1/2 mile ahead, a car was broken down. A few minutes later, I tried to remember what the color of the car was, what the lady looked like, etc, and it was very difficult. In fact, I'd say I was maybe 30% accurate in my own recollection.

Typically, unless something/someone makes a big impact on us (emotionally, visually, physically) the details of something/somone are very fleeting.

 

[scoops]

BTW, I may have been mistaken about Fred's assertion to the police early on that she may be suicidal. It just may have been a smart move on his part. I recently watched a couple of episodes of Cold Blood on Netflix, and in one episode an officer mentioned that if the person filing the missing person's report hadn't mentioned the adult person may be suicidal, he would not have been able to file the report for something like 48 hours. So, maybe Fred did what he thought would get the more immediate response. Even if police aren't searching homes, at least they're searching somewhere sooner rather than later.

I believe that fred was sincere at least early on. I think he regretted bringing up the theory of suicide. I don't believe he felt investigators were as attentive to his daughter's circumstances as he would like them to be IMO.

And I believe it was Fred who (out of strategy) went another direction and brought the theory of a boogeyman on the loose into the picture to try and force police action.



This snippet from an article done in Oct of 2007 kind of backs things up.

Nancy West
Oct , 2007

"Early on, her father, Fred Murray, briefly considered Maura may have committed suicide.

When police assembled the Murray and Rausch families to brief them on the investigation, Maura's father "moaned and rubbed his head and said, Oh, no,' " according to Sharon Rausch, the mother of Billy Rausch, Maura's then-boyfriend.

"I remember Fred said, I always have told the kids when I got old and worthless I was going to climb my favorite mountain with a bottle of Jack Daniels and drink myself to death.' That was emotional. He thought what if there was something he didn't know about," Rausch said.

She said authorities thought the alcohol and Tylenol PM Maura brought may have been indications she was going to kill herself.

"That's what people do, they drink, take a bunch of pills and die peacefully," she said.

 

[scoops]

Here is the actual transcript from the day after maura went missing at the 911 dispatch center in the area maura went missing.


graftonGrafton County Sheriff’s Office 911 Dispatch log
Feb 10, 2004

“Fred Murray calling back and said that officer has not gotten back to him.

Told him (Fred Murray) that he (officer) had the message but sure he would be calling (Fred back).

(Fred) stated it is urgent that officer calls him. He has some very important information to give him.”




I have always found this odd. And I may be over-reading this. But If I got a call that my daughter was all of a sudden missing, I would be so floored that I wouldn't have anything to tell police, I would be desperate for them to tell me everything they know.


But obviously, I don't have the 100 percent proper context here, so I am guessing.

I just thought this little tidbit in the 911 logs stood out.

 

[Jane Birch]

On second thought telemag - I'm a guy, and what I just said might be an apples-to-oranges comparison. Would a gal actually take off alone on a trip.... hmmm, now that I think about it, not so sure.
Also, my car at the time was in excellent condition....

A gal taking off in a car with problems is odd, and shows some sort of lack of concern...

I've done it. Not recently, but when I was closer to heer age.

 

[Jane Birch]

I've spent the past half hour going through some of the many older threads, refreshing my memory on what was known to be certain (unfortunately, precious little) and the questions/speculations raised by WS members.

One thing I don't think I've seen asked is why the supervisor that told Maura to leave work early didn't seem to have asked WHY she was in such a state. While I can certainly understand respecting someone's privacy, I also can't imagine encountering one of my co-workers so distraught and NOT asking what's going on or how can you help. That part just seems really bizarre to me.

The supervisor has spoken about this on several forums (I don't rememeber if she's ever beeno n this one?), and she did try earnestly to get MAura to open up about what was so , but wasn't able to. She even offered to meet her at Dunkin Donuts the next day to talk, and gave Maura her cell number.

 

[OldSteve]

The supervisor has spoken about this on several forums (I don't rememeber if she's ever beeno n this one?), and she did try earnestly to get MAura to open up about what was so , but wasn't able to. She even offered to meet her at Dunkin Donuts the next day to talk, and gave Maura her cell number.

Didn't know all of this - thanks for it!

 

[OldSteve]

Here is the actual transcript from the day after maura went missing at the 911 dispatch center in the area maura went missing.


graftonGrafton County Sheriff’s Office 911 Dispatch log
Feb 10, 2004

“Fred Murray calling back and said that officer has not gotten back to him.

Told him (Fred Murray) that he (officer) had the message but sure he would be calling (Fred back).

(Fred) stated it is urgent that officer calls him. He has some very important information to give him.”




I have always found this odd. And I may be over-reading this. But If I got a call that my daughter was all of a sudden missing, I would be so floored that I wouldn't have anything to tell police, I would be desperate for them to tell me everything they know.


But obviously, I don't have the 100 percent proper context here, so I am guessing.

I just thought this little tidbit in the 911 logs stood out.

Thanks for this, and I agree with you! Got to wonder what the BBM info was..

 

[McSpy]

Thanks for this, and I agree with you! Got to wonder what the BBM info was..

Hmmm, it makes me wonder if Fred wanted to tell them about Maura's UMass accident and her possible state of mind. I don't think NH's LE had this info yet.

This is all speculation on my part . . .

 

[deathtracker]

You know, it's funny you should say that. The other day while driving home, a women was walking in the breakdown lane of opposing traffic with a gas can in her hand. About 1/2 mile ahead, a car was broken down. A few minutes later, I tried to remember what the color of the car was, what the lady looked like, etc, and it was very difficult. In fact, I'd say I was maybe 30% accurate in my own recollection.

Typically, unless something/someone makes a big impact on us (emotionally, visually, physically) the details of something/somone are very fleeting.

You make a very good point in your own observations (or the lack of) pun intended...

Most eye witness accounts and recolections have been found to be inacurate. Unless we are alerted to our surroundings they blend with our subconsios thoughts and cloud any memory.

The human makes for easy prey.
All my own opinion and due respect

 

[Ricochet]

She said authorities thought the alcohol and Tylenol PM Maura brought may have been indications she was going to kill herself.

"That's what people do, they drink, take a bunch of pills and die peacefully," she said.

Fred, clearly didn't know what he was talking about, and I'd think Maura, being a nursing student, could find a better method. I've tried this, and it will kill you, but it's also incredibly painful. There is nothing peaceful about it. You will fall asleep, and you will also wake up from the stomach pain.

I think some of her actions appear to be a bit odd/impulsive, and when people are depressed with high anxiety, decision making can be more difficult, as well as, impulsive. This I know about, but I personally don't believe the suicide theory.

Assuming she was drinking, then I think, she had reason to get away. She was on probation until February 16, for the cc fraud which would of been dismissed if no trouble. I'd think a dwi could cause potential issues, and the possibility of being expelled from the nursing program. The arrest report can be found on James Renners blog in the documents section.

The rag in the muffler is a non issue, imo. There is only one reason I can find to put a rag in a muffler and that would be to check for leaks which she wouldn't be doing.

I don't believe she was abducted by a serial killer.

I'd like to believe it was an elaborate plot to start a new life, but I don't believe that either. she seemed to close to her friends to not keep in touch, and if she can't pull off credit card fraud I doubt she could pull off that kind of hoax.

My personal opinion is that she died from hypothermia.

I belong to another website and they were talking about listening to police scanners, and someone posted this..

My parents have a scanner radio, and they were listening when the calls went out over Maura Murray disappearing (>5 miles away from their house). And no, I don't have any particular insight on what could have happened to her, either; one of my best friends thinks that someone must have picked her up, but whether it was someone she planned to meet or someone she didn't, nobody knows. The road in question is moderately busy, but it's mostly local traffic, and it's not right off the interstate or anything, and it was snowing VERY hard that day, so even hardcore North Country residents wouldn't have been inclined to be out if they didn't have to be. If she'd just wandered off and froze to death or drowned in the river, they most likely would have found either her body or at least some pretty good evidence she was there, but so far, nothing.

Oh, I'm new by the way.. Hi! I'm like many of you and I find this case fascinating because there's so many different ways to look at it. I do feel really bad for her family. It's hard to believe she would be 30 now.

p.s. I'm not sure how you all feel about this but Fred, comes across to me as being very controlling when it comes to family image..

 

[neverletgo]

Oh, I'm new by the way.. Hi! I'm like many of you and I find this case fascinating because there's so many different ways to look at it. I do feel really bad for her family. It's hard to believe she would be 30 now.

RSBM

:wagon:, Ricochet! Great first post here in Maura's thread and I hope to see you posting more here! :seeya:

 

[Jerri Blank]

welcome to the discussion!

i avoided MM's case for a long time because it hit a bit too close to home. i always thought she had died by suicide in a place and manner that at least brought her peace and left it at that. after reading everything now, i am convinced that regardless of where she was headed and for what purpose, whatever happened to her that night was not in the plan.

the only 2 reasonable options are she got lost in the woods and succumbed to the elements or she was a victim of opportunity for someone.

Fred, clearly didn't know what he was talking about, and I'd think Maura, being a nursing student, could find a better method. I've tried this, and it will kill you, but it's also incredibly painful. There is nothing peaceful about it. You will fall asleep, and you will also wake up from the stomach pain.

RE: the tylenol PM theory, fred didnt say that. billy's mom did. she said she thought the authorities thought that. whether they did or not, i don't know. but i agree with you that with MM's access to medical knowledge she probably could have figured out a "better" concoction.

 

[BennyHill2012]

the only 2 reasonable options are she got lost in the woods and succumbed to the elements or she was a victim of opportunity for someone.

I've dismissed the woods theory; there was no evidence at the scene to suggest she went that way. No footprints or trails according to the available information. Of the 2, a victim of opportunity is most likely. I still give some credence to the walkaway theory as the alternate theory. At the end of the day, there is just nothing of substance to make me lean in any specific direction. I just hope this case gets solved someday.

 

[Coffeelover]

I've heard that a few times, that there were no footprints. For how many miles was this? What if she ran a couple miles to get away from the scene and then crossed a driveway or ditch to get into the woods, old cabin etc. ? So there were no footprints from the road up even a driveway for a couple of miles? She had every reason to flee the accident. The Disappeared show mentioned a coke can that smelled like alcohol, a box red wine in the backseat and some pink liquid that had been poured in the snow beside the car. Since she was still on probation, she had very good reason to get away as fast as she could from the car wreck. I think she died from exposure however there might be a slim chance she took a ride with the wrong person who may or may not have stuffed the rag in her muffler. This rag is the one bit of evidence that doesn't fit the first scenario.

 

[scoops]

Just a quick question for anyone who thinks Maura "hitched" a ride from the accident scene.

Where would maura tell the person to take her?

Keep in mind, they were in the middle of nowhere, she wasn't that familiar with her location and she was close to three hours away from her dorm. Also, if she just wanted to be dropped off at some place safe, then why hitch a ride to begin with, when you can walk less than two miles to the open gas/convienence store you just passed before you had your wreck.