NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[OldSteve]

Hi All,

I am also a new poster to this forum but I have been following this case for a while now. I look forward to good conversation.

I have considered the idea of whether or not Maura may have taken a flashlight out of her emergency kit while she was seen at the trunk of her car. The moon was said to be almost full that night however a great point was made about Maura using the flashlight to be visible to traffic. I gave this some thought. If Maura was hiding from police then she probably would not be running with the flashlight on, but on the other hand it sure would be useful to her at some point along that dark road.

Another point about the flashlight is , if Maura did in fact take a flashlight with her then that could be one more item to add to the things to look for while searching or if someone stumbled on a flashlight it might have meant something or triggered a red flag.

I see my comment has not been posted on James' blog, so I stand corrected about it not being posted.

A while back I looked into moonlight and posted a link backthread... IIRC, it was a few days after full, so moon would be rising a bit later and not being familiar with the area, can't say if that would have helped or not. I wonder if the road heading east is aligned such that the rising moon from the east would have laminated the road... but my experience is that only when the moon is overhead on a really clear night does it really help... It was too early for that ...

Going OT, wife and I running at night we would turn our flashlights off when cars or anything was approaching... We also were able to quickly go onto the sidewalk, putting parked cars between us and whatever... always ran into traffic, so a car couldn't sneak up on us from behind...

Now if I were MM running that night, and I had a flashlight, and a car was approaching I probably would not turn it off since running without a light would seem to call more attention to myself than having it on. But any gal running alone at night on a empty road is so vulnerable.

 

[neverletgo]

Sorry that I didn't include your post to my reply. I am still figuring out this forum works. Any feedback on how to do this would be appreciated.

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[neverletgo]

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Oops, ignore my last post . . . I just saw this one by McSpy! :blushing:

 

[scoops]

Wonderground historical weather from February 9th, 2004 (St. Johnsbury, VT — closest location to Woodsville/Bath/North Haverhill, NH):

http://www.wunderground.com/history...+Johnsbury&req_state=VT&req_statename=Vermont

* waning gibbous moon (almost full), although may have been obscured by cloud cover.
* temperatures above freezing from 3pm to midnight, no wind chill (scroll way down Wunderground page for hourly conditions).
* wind calm to 4.6 mph during the evening.
* temperatures down to low-mid 20s F on the 10th and then dipped lower on the night 11th/12th.

WELCOME! Here to Help and missingnotforgotten, great to have you onboard.

:wagon:

And this is exactly the type of thing that kind of symbolizes this whole case.

I have also looked into weather for that day (I used farmer's almanac) and like this report that unscripted has provided, it appears that maura was dealing with rather mild weather conditions that night.


But then if you go back and look at the quotes from both Fred Murray and Sharon Rausch, (People that were actually at that location within a day or so) you get a completely different story.

here is one example (an excerpt) taken from an artcile that is credited to the boston Channel that ran nine months after maura went missing.

Boston Channel, Nov. 2004

Every other weekend for nine months Fred Murray has made the trip from Connecticut to a New Hampshire motel that has become the home base in his search for his missing daughter.

"No one else is looking and the case would just die and be forgotten. I've got to do it. I owe it to my daughter," said Murray.

Maura Murray, 22, an athlete and honors student at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, was last seen the evening of Feb. 9, 2004, after her car crashed in Haverhill, N.H. Neighbors called the police. One offered the young woman help, but she refused. Within minutes she vanished.

"The people who called in to the police said my daughter was sitting one to two minutes before the cops came, which means all the police had to do was go down the street and grab her," said Murray.

Alcohol was found in the car. Murray said if his daughter was drinking, she probably panicked, afraid she'd get in trouble.

"So she starts walking away," said Murray.

Murray believes his daughter became a victim of foul play.

"They know it was a young girl, they don't call ahead. They let her walk into the national forest. They let a young girl in 12-degree temperatures walk away," he said.



In several articles that are out there, both fred and sharon have each been quoted as noting the weather that night she went missing was very cold and that there was 2 feet of snow on the ground.

So do we believe them, who were actually there at that present time, or do we believe the historical references such as farmer's almanac?

 

[scoops]

here is another example taken from mauramurrayismissing website


"It’s been a long and difficult road for the Murrays and the Rausches since Maura
disappeared. On the night of February 9, 2004, Maura was driving on Route 112 near
Haverhill, NH. Her car slid into a snow bank on a hairpin curve. The temperature was
12 degrees and dropping with light snow falling. She had personal belongings in her
car, including gloves. She did not take her gloves with her into the dark, bitter night.
What happened after that remains a mystery.

 

[Unscripted]

In the days following Maura’s disappearance it was cold at night and above seasonal during the day (see Wunderground link above). I think the 12 degree F ("and dropping") reference by family (in the media interviews etc.) was just a guesstimate by Maura’s loved ones who were extremely stressed at the time. There’s nothing more to read into it IMO.

 

[Ricochet]

Since we're talking about weather... I posted this in my first post, and I found this on another website that I belong to that is NOT related to anything Maura Murray...

My parents have a scanner radio, and they were listening when the calls went out over Maura Murray disappearing (>5 miles away from their house). And no, I don't have any particular insight on what could have happened to her, either; one of my best friends thinks that someone must have picked her up, but whether it was someone she planned to meet or someone she didn't, nobody knows. The road in question is moderately busy, but it's mostly local traffic, and it's not right off the interstate or anything, and it was snowing VERY hard that day, so even hardcore North Country residents wouldn't have been inclined to be out if they didn't have to be. If she'd just wandered off and froze to death or drowned in the river, they most likely would have found either her body or at least some pretty good evidence she was there, but so far, nothing.

I still believe in the exposure theory myself. I forget when the person originally posted this probably a year or two ago...(I'm guessing).. I found this particular quote interesting because the website isnt related to Maura Murray, and the topic was police scanners..

 

[scoops]

In the days following Maura’s disappearance it was cold at night and above seasonal during the day (see Wunderground link above). I think the 12 degree F ("and dropping") reference by family (in the media interviews etc.) was just a guesstimate by Maura’s loved ones who were extremely stressed at the time. There’s nothing more to read into it IMO.

I don't disagree that the family may be mistaken, I do have my own doubts on whether or not this was just a "guesstimate" on the part of fred.

Clearly, there is a difference between a mild night and one that is 12 degrees and dropping.

Family would've been briefed when they got to the area on what the weather conditions were the night maura went missing. The locals would know whether or not it had been unseasonably warm or freezing cold.

You can guestimate degrees from like 12 to 13 to 14, but to be that far off on an account of what your daughter had to deal with .... I find that one hard to believe just like the rag in the tailpipe and fred knowing that it came from her road side emergency kit ... and other things.

 

[McSpy]

And this is exactly the type of thing that kind of symbolizes this whole case.

I have also looked into weather for that day (I used farmer's almanac) and like this report that unscripted has provided, it appears that maura was dealing with rather mild weather conditions that night.


But then if you go back and look at the quotes from both Fred Murray and Sharon Rausch, (People that were actually at that location within a day or so) you get a completely different story.

here is one example (an excerpt) taken from an artcile that is credited to the boston Channel that ran nine months after maura went missing.

Boston Channel, Nov. 2004

Every other weekend for nine months Fred Murray has made the trip from Connecticut to a New Hampshire motel that has become the home base in his search for his missing daughter.

"No one else is looking and the case would just die and be forgotten. I've got to do it. I owe it to my daughter," said Murray.

Maura Murray, 22, an athlete and honors student at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, was last seen the evening of Feb. 9, 2004, after her car crashed in Haverhill, N.H. Neighbors called the police. One offered the young woman help, but she refused. Within minutes she vanished.

"The people who called in to the police said my daughter was sitting one to two minutes before the cops came, which means all the police had to do was go down the street and grab her," said Murray.

Alcohol was found in the car. Murray said if his daughter was drinking, she probably panicked, afraid she'd get in trouble.

"So she starts walking away," said Murray.

Murray believes his daughter became a victim of foul play.

"They know it was a young girl, they don't call ahead. They let her walk into the national forest. They let a young girl in 12-degree temperatures walk away," he said.



In several articles that are out there, both fred and sharon have each been quoted as noting the weather that night she went missing was very cold and that there was 2 feet of snow on the ground.

So do we believe them, who were actually there at that present time, or do we believe the historical references such as farmer's almanac?

Was there snow on the ground from a few days before Feb. 9th, 2004? It can still be mild one night and have snow on the ground from snowfalls that happened earlier in the week.

 

[McSpy]

I don't disagree that the family may be mistaken, I do have my own doubts on whether or not this was just a "guesstimate" on the part of fred.

Clearly, there is a difference between a mild night and one that is 12 degrees and dropping.

Family would've been briefed when they got to the area on what the weather conditions were the night maura went missing. The locals would know whether or not it had been unseasonably warm or freezing cold.

You can guestimate degrees from like 12 to 13 to 14, but to be that far off on an account of what your daughter had to deal with .... I find that one hard to believe just like the rag in the tailpipe and fred knowing that it came from her road side emergency kit ... and other things.

I'm not so sure that happened. LE can be very vague sometimes. Besides, 33 degrees is not warm. It can get to anyone eventually. It certainly is better than 12 degrees, but I can understand Fred being confused about the weather situation at the time. IIRC, he didn't find out his daughter was missing until after Feb. 9th. The weather could have turned colder at that point. IMO, he knew it can get dangerously cold up there and he was very worried about it.

 

[Skigirl]

I agree that even temps in the 30s and 40s would be tough to tolerate/survive. Have any of ya'll been winter camping? In 30 degree weather with all the right gear it is COLD. An impromptu night out in 30-degree weather would not likely end well.

 

[deathtracker]

A precarious situation for sure. But, not like so many others who were connected to the medical profession or had been treated at a local hospital of late--an then they disapperared. Or these women and the circumstances could have been coincidence....

I am an avid runner who at one time ran 5 night a week in the winter. You dont leave your gloves behind and 12 degrees or twenty degrees is a cold run if you have nowhere to warmup at finish. LM was too smart to run under the circumstances.

I think she got into a warm vehicle.:twocents:

MOO

 

[Unscripted]

If Maura was planning on running to the next town down the road I believe she would have donned her running shoes and gloves, taken along her toiletries, jewelry and AAA card, and put the box of wine in the trunk out of sight.

I think it’s possible that she may have planned to wait it out in the woods until the police left and someone came along and either offered her a lift or grabbed her; I think she was interrupted before she could get away.

Apparently FM told his daughter that if the Saturn was smoking she should put a rag around the tailpipe. I’m willing to bet he cautioned her that a rag lodged in the tailpipe could cause a car to stall out. Given that possibility, I believe Maura may have put the rag in the tailpipe herself with the perception that it would have prevented the Saturn from being stolen while she was away. Which, in turn, tells me she planned to return.

 

[OldSteve]

Even if she had the flashlight I've been harping on, I still don't see her trying to run east, since where could she go?
IMO it seemed she had a change of heart about the SBD, perhaps seeing he lived close by... may just in not knowing what to do, she headed toward his place... But, as she headed east a bit she realized she couldn't go east as the road was dark ahead, and looking back toward her car she knew LE would be there soon and catch her DUI...
So at that point, she might me more willing to accept a ride.... or she was simply just taken....

 

[scoops]

If Maura was planning on running to the next town down the road I believe she would have donned her running shoes and gloves, taken along her toiletries, jewelry and AAA card, and put the box of wine in the trunk out of sight.

I think it’s possible that she may have planned to wait it out in the woods until the police left and someone came along and either offered her a lift or grabbed her; I think she was interrupted before she could get away.

Apparently FM told his daughter that if the Saturn was smoking she should put a rag around the tailpipe. I’m willing to bet he cautioned her that a rag lodged in the tailpipe could cause a car to stall out. Given that possibility, I believe Maura may have put the rag in the tailpipe herself with the perception that it would have prevented the Saturn from being stolen while she was away. Which, in turn, tells me she planned to return.

It's possible, but also just as possible that fred murray never mentioned a rag and what to do with it to his daughter.

Fred was confronted by police about the rag ... And IMO, he didn't like what the officers were implying its use for ... And he came up with a story to explain it away and get the officers to quit focusing on it.

 

[AWOLNATION]

It's possible, but also just as possible that fred murray never mentioned a rag and what to do with it to his daughter.

Fred was confronted by police about the rag ... And IMO, he didn't like what the officers were implying its use for ... And he came up with a story to explain it away and get the officers to quit focusing on it.

I think you hit the nail on the head... Completely logical

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Here to Help]

Since I am on the subject of RF . . I wonder if he was asked to take a polygraph test? Another thing, since his trailer was searched on the street, did LE ask him in the past if they could take a look around inside his trailer? If so, it seems his answer was "no." Otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to search his trailer on the street when he moved. It looks to me they were monitoring him, so they could get an opportunity to search the trailer.
He could be just an innocent person who came forward with info to help find Maura, but who knows??

JMO

There were 4 Poly tests said to have been given and obviously the identities are non public. My guess would be that RF and SBD would be two and Prob FM would be the third and the fourth is not set in concrete (wink). These are just my guesses and I have no knowledge otherwise. You might even be able to replace one of these with the A frame tenant.

 

[Here to Help]

If Maura was planning on running to the next town down the road I believe she would have donned her running shoes and gloves, taken along her toiletries, jewelry and AAA card, and put the box of wine in the trunk out of sight.

I think it’s possible that she may have planned to wait it out in the woods until the police left and someone came along and either offered her a lift or grabbed her; I think she was interrupted before she could get away.

Apparently FM told his daughter that if the Saturn was smoking she should put a rag around the tailpipe. I’m willing to bet he cautioned her that a rag lodged in the tailpipe could cause a car to stall out. Given that possibility, I believe Maura may have put the rag in the tailpipe herself with the perception that it would have prevented the Saturn from being stolen while she was away. Which, in turn, tells me she planned to return.

Not to mention that her car was locked. This may have been an indicator that she was coming back or it could have just been habit. I wonder if she had power door locks or not.

 

[Here to Help]

Hi, Here to Help! If you see a post you want to quote, just click the button that looks like this below the post to include it in your reply:

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That was awesome and a great help.

Thank you:great:

 

[missingnotforgotten]

There were 4 Poly tests said to have been given and obviously the identities are non public. My guess would be that RF and SBD would be two and Prob FM would be the third and the fourth is not set in concrete (wink). These are just my guesses and I have no knowledge otherwise. You might even be able to replace one of these with the A frame tenant.

I'm thinking if RF retained a lawyer who advised to not allow a search of property that the lawyer would also advise him against taking a poly. Anyone who knows enough about law to refuse a property search would know enough to refuse a polygraph in my opinion. This goes for RF was well as the other who is rumored to not have allowed a search and is related to a prosecutor (iirc). Again Jmo but my guesses would be Billy, Fred, SBD, and ??? for the 4 who took polygraphs.