NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[missingnotforgotten]

Even if she had the flashlight I've been harping on, I still don't see her trying to run east, since where could she go?
...

Exactly, why run into the unknown? Unless she thought she was a short distance from a motel but then why not take her items she would need for overnight? Baffling for sure.

 

[Unscripted]

Because FM was the last person to see Maura on the 8th, it’s quite possible that NHSP grilled him about everything including the rag. I truly doubt he orchestrated or assisted in her disappearance in any way, otherwise why spend almost every weekend for 5+ years up in NH searching for her?

In the Mickey Shunick case, her friend Brettly Wilson was interrogated for hours because he was the last person to see her alive. LE badgered him and said they’d make it easier on him down the line if he confessed to killing her… and obviously we know he didn’t do it.

I can’t blame FM for getting hot under the collar for being questioned when he probably felt LE should be spending their resources trying to find his daughter. FM’s phone records were subpoenaed and probably his credit card statements perused, work hours verified, and details on his rental car checked out. If Fred was up in NH on the 9th or was blameworthy in any way, I think LE would have been able to determine that fact pdq.

Good discussions on here in the last few days! :Banane35:

 

[Here to Help]

I'm thinking if RF retained a lawyer who advised to not allow a search of property that the lawyer would also advise him against taking a poly. Anyone who knows enough about law to refuse a property search would know enough to refuse a polygraph in my opinion. This goes for RF was well as the other who is rumored to not have allowed a search and is related to a prosecutor (iirc). Again Jmo but my guesses would be Billy, Fred, SBD, and ??? for the 4 who took polygraphs.

That is an excellent point. I never considered refusal.

 

[McSpy]

I'm thinking if RF retained a lawyer who advised to not allow a search of property that the lawyer would also advise him against taking a poly. Anyone who knows enough about law to refuse a property search would know enough to refuse a polygraph in my opinion. This goes for RF was well as the other who is rumored to not have allowed a search and is related to a prosecutor (iirc). Again Jmo but my guesses would be Billy, Fred, SBD, and ??? for the 4 who took polygraphs.

Hmmmm, maybe RF was the 4th, but didn't pass and that is why they were monitoring him. Otherwise, who was the 4th person? Can't think of who could have been asked . . . the state trooper maybe?? Maybe there is a local sex offender close by, who they asked to take a poly?

JMO

 

[Here to Help]

I would like to see Mr Renner interview SBD wife. I realize that this has been rehashed many times and SBD was interviewed many times etc, but if SBD did see something that night and relayed it to his wife, it is quite possible that she may be willing to say something now that SBD is gone. I think it would be worth a shot if it hasn't been done already. :twocents:

 

[McSpy]

Since we're talking about weather... I posted this in my first post, and I found this on another website that I belong to that is NOT related to anything Maura Murray...




I still believe in the exposure theory myself. I forget when the person originally posted this probably a year or two ago...(I'm guessing).. I found this particular quote interesting because the website isnt related to Maura Murray, and the topic was police scanners..

It is still on my list as a possibilies too. A lot of it depends on her state of mind at the time and if she continued east into the National Forrest. The pitch black darkness could have messed her up. She could have got confused, lost or possibly hurt walking or running in the darkness, which could have contributed to the possibility of succumbing to the elements. If she attempted to run to the next town---it was a long way. I believe she was physically able to do it, but the darkness could have been a big problem. JMO

 

[scoops]

There were 4 Poly tests said to have been given and obviously the identities are non public. My guess would be that RF and SBD would be two and Prob FM would be the third and the fourth is not set in concrete (wink). These are just my guesses and I have no knowledge otherwise. You might even be able to replace one of these with the A frame tenant.

I will take a stab at this.

I believe the four were given to 1. Billy (maura's boyfriend). 2. Kathleen, (Maura's sister), Fred (maura's father) 4. Possibly Julie (maura's other sister).

If I am correct, notice a pattern.


I am almost certain that police went round and round with Billy and maura's sister kathleen in the very beginning (Police didn't believe them) and that came from billy's mom (who kept a journa that had details on each day's events l while she and maura's family were searching for maura in the days after maura went missing.

I will try at some point to find that journal entry and post it on here. I had come across it before, but didn't save it and I can't remember where I ran into it at.

Everybody can say what they want about foul play. This case wasn't treated as such by police. Sure they followed up on tips and leads in hopes of tracking down maura and did a standard check of the people that lived near where the accident took place.

But her ending up as a file in the special cold case unit in NH as I interpret it had more to do with there being a lot of missing people that have been unaccounted for and them realizing that they had a true issue, so they included her among the missing.

Not that they stumbled upon new information and they are moments away from arresting maura's killer, so they turned her over to a special cold case unit to finish up.

 

[scoops]

here is one of sharon's journal entries. This isn't the one that talks about police not trusting billy or kathleen, but this is word for word from sharon rausch (billy's mom) who went to the accident scene and spent time searching for maura in the early days and documented in a journal what all was going on.

Sharon Rausch Journal entries:
On Fred being first notified:
2/10/04 3:20 p.m -Fred receives a voice message on his home phone about his car being found abandoned near Woodsville NH on the evening of February 9th. Fred’s answering machine notes the time of day as 3:20 PM EST. Fred is at work on a contracted job in another state and does not get the message until later.
At approximately 5:00 or 5:30 PM Fred Murray receives a call from his daughter Kathleen. The Haverhill Police have reached her brother, Freddie Murray’s residence (Freddie resides with his mother Laurie Murray, younger brother and Maura when she is not at school.) The police reported to Freddie that they found an abandoned car owned by Frederick Murray. Freddie told them that was his sister’s car and they had to search for her. The policeman that talked to Freddie said that if she was missing, he would have to contact their local police department. When Freddie called the local police department he was told that he would have to call the University of Massachusetts at Amherst Police Department, Maura’s current residence. . Fred Murray, the father called Haverhill Police Department and begged them to start looking for Maura.

 

[Here to Help]

Phone call to Fred

Anyone else find it odd that it appears that Freds cell phone wasn't called to notify him, or was he notified by cell phone also? I can see maybe the first call being made to Fred at home but when he didn't respond that evening nor next morning I would think the reasonable thing to do would be to call his cell phone. I am sure His Kids knew that Fred traveled and sometimes stayed away from home.

 

[scoops]

Phone call to Fred

Anyone else find it odd that it appears that Freds cell phone wasn't called to notify him, or was he notified by cell phone also? I can see maybe the first call being made to Fred at home but when he didn't respond that evening nor next morning I would think the reasonable thing to do would be to call his cell phone. I am sure His Kids knew that Fred traveled and sometimes stayed away from home.

I don't find it odd, because police (at that point) weren't doing anything of an urgent manner on maura's case. They briefly looked for her that night and stopped some cars to try and locate her, but they weren't thinking something sinister happened to her, they were thinking she was avoiding them intentionally as a possible DUI flee.

Because they could track her car to its owner, they weren't in a hurry to find her that night. they probably figured her father would address the situation when he got around to it.

 

[Here to Help]

I don't find it odd, because police (at that point) weren't doing anything of an urgent manner on maura's case. They briefly looked for her that night and stopped some cars to try and locate her, but they weren't thinking something sinister happened to her, they were thinking she was avoiding them intentionally as a possible DUI flee.

Because they could track her car to its owner, they weren't in a hurry to find her that night. they probably figured her father would address the situation when he got around to it.

Scoops, I am referring to the family not calling Freds cell phone not LE. I realize that LE thought she was maybe just hiding out and would come back.

Mauras brother seemed concerned enough to ask LE to start searching for Maura . If I was in that situation then the natural order would be to absolutely make sure that my folks knew what was happening and spoke with them. Mauras mother obviously was aware early on.

I guess I am getting the feeling that Fred maybe was not as close to Mauras other siblings as he was with Maura. I sense a family dynamic that excludes Fred. JMO

 

[scoops]

Scoops, I am referring to the family not calling Freds cell phone not LE. I realize that LE thought she was maybe just hiding out and would come back.

Mauras brother seemed concerned enough to ask LE to start searching for Maura . If I was in that situation then the natural order would be to absolutely make sure that my folks knew what was happening and spoke with them. Mauras mother obviously was aware early on.

I guess I am getting the feeling that Fred maybe was not as close to Mauras other siblings as he was with Maura. I sense a family dynamic that excludes Fred. JMO

Oh, sorry, I did think you were referring to police.

And on that note, you make a very good observation.
Dynamics of the family would be of interest to know.

 

[Here to Help]

Oh, sorry, I did think you were referring to police.

And on that note, you make a very good observation.
Dynamics of the family would be of interest to know.

You really don't here much about Fred's relationship with his other daughters or son more importantly you don't hear very much about Maura relationship with her mom or other siblings.

Maura felt she let her dad down and prob felt she disappointed him. I can see a scenario of Maura wanting to run especially if she was getting ready to get the boot from U mass. Now, I wonder what her relation was like with the rest of her family.Was it easy for Maura to just run away from a situation that she felt second fiddle to her sister Julie and she let her dad down. The overhanging bomb might have been ready to drop (dismiss from U mass) and that was just to much to bare.

Just throwing some thoughts out there as trying to put myself in her shoes sort of speak. For all I know she had a great relationship with her mom and other siblings but really haven't heard much at all about it and maybe that is part of the reason they won't talk to Renner. JMO

 

[missingnotforgotten]

You really don't here much about Fred's relationship with his other daughters or son more importantly you don't hear very much about Maura relationship with her mom or other siblings.

Maura felt she let her dad down and prob felt she disappointed him. I can see a scenario of Maura wanting to run especially if she was getting ready to get the boot from U mass. Now, I wonder what her relation was like with the rest of her family.Was it easy for Maura to just run away from a situation that she felt second fiddle to her sister Julie and she let her dad down. The overhanging bomb might have been ready to drop (dismiss from U mass) and that was just to much to bare.

Just throwing some thoughts out there as trying to put myself in her shoes sort of speak. For all I know she had a great relationship with her mom and other siblings but really haven't heard much at all about it and maybe that is part of the reason they won't talk to Renner. JMO

I can't find the article atm but there was one iirc where it was said she regularly talked to her sister Kathleen on the phone, making is sound as she and Maura were close. Other than that I haven't seen much of family dynamics mentioned in the news.

The packing of her dorm room with boxes on the bed, if true, is a red flag to me that she might have been anticipating having to leave school or otherwise planning to move out. Planning to run and possible connection to her or her car to the Vasi hit are possible scenarios I've thought about, including what if her father planned to help her run and then the final crash threw a wrench in the plans.

Mho is maybe Fred knew there was a plan or something in the works as to where she was heading but when she didn't show back up after the crash he was left to wonder if she continued to run on her own or met up with foul play along the way. As more time passed and not hearing from her it seems he leaned toward foul play to push LE to take it more seriously to try to find her. I don't think a father would push for FBI involvement and hire PIs if he knew she was safe somewhere and covering up, but my impression is there is more to the story of why Maura left that night and I think Fred knows at least something about it or he would have been all over Amherst investigating and yet his searching was done up at NH. He must have reason to discount her prior life as unrelated to her fate but the question is why.

All speculation and my opinions only.

 

[EyesOnSunday]

If Maura was planning on running to the next town down the road I believe she would have donned her running shoes and gloves, taken along her toiletries, jewelry and AAA card, and put the box of wine in the trunk out of sight.

I think it’s possible that she may have planned to wait it out in the woods until the police left and someone came along and either offered her a lift or grabbed her; I think she was interrupted before she could get away.

Apparently FM told his daughter that if the Saturn was smoking she should put a rag around the tailpipe. I’m willing to bet he cautioned her that a rag lodged in the tailpipe could cause a car to stall out. Given that possibility, I believe Maura may have put the rag in the tailpipe herself with the perception that it would have prevented the Saturn from being stolen while she was away. Which, in turn, tells me she planned to return.

She didn't hide the box of wine... I hadn't considered that before and it is really sticking out to me. Personally, that would have been one of the first things I would do.

The rag in the tailpipe is also something I can't move past. I do not believe Fred actually told her to do that.

 

[scoops]

I can't find the article atm but there was one iirc where it was said she regularly talked to her sister Kathleen on the phone, making is sound as she and Maura were close. Other than that I haven't seen much of family dynamics mentioned in the news.

The packing of her dorm room with boxes on the bed, if true, is a red flag to me that she might have been anticipating having to leave school or otherwise planning to move out. Planning to run and possible connection to her or her car to the Vasi hit are possible scenarios I've thought about, including what if her father planned to help her run and then the final crash threw a wrench in the plans.

Mho is maybe Fred knew there was a plan or something in the works as to where she was heading but when she didn't show back up after the crash he was left to wonder if she continued to run on her own or met up with foul play along the way. As more time passed and not hearing from her it seems he leaned toward foul play to push LE to take it more seriously to try to find her. I don't think a father would push for FBI involvement and hire PIs if he knew she was safe somewhere and covering up, but my impression is there is more to the story of why Maura left that night and I think Fred knows at least something about it or he would have been all over Amherst investigating and yet his searching was done up at NH. He must have reason to discount her prior life as unrelated to her fate but the question is why.

All speculation and my opinions only.

A lot of good points here.

As wacky as the vasi hit and run angle is, there has never been anything that I have been unable to uncover that would prove that maura wasn't involved and her breakdown at work lines up perfectly with someone who had just been involved in a hit and run less than an hour before, one block over.

Maura WASN'T on a phone when she had her breakdown at work.
It is police that are speculating that a phone call had something to do with maura becoming upset. The evidence has never supported a phone call as the source of her breakdown.


Vasi's hit and run was never investigated fully, that comes from Vasi's mother. Vasi himself has no interest in pursuing who hit him.

Maura's father did show up to her campus one day later (after maura's breakdown and after the vasi hit and run). Was Fred there on a routine visit (just a few weeks after maura had spent her christmas break with family) or was Fred there because his daughter was in trouble/having a crisis and needed his help?

 

[OldSteve]

Lots to comment on...

IIRC the SBD was not given a poly.... not sure if they ever got a search warrant for his place either....

If MM had scummed to the elements, I think she would have been found since I don't think she would tried to hide herself. Hiding oneself is very rare.

Appears she was in such a rush to get away from her car that she didn't do much to clean it up OR someone purposely splashed the wine around to make it appear just like it did - she had taken off to avoid a DUI...

 

[missingnotforgotten]

Lots to comment on...

IIRC the SBD was not given a poly.... not sure if they ever got a search warrant for his place either....

If MM had scummed to the elements, I think she would have been found since I don't think she would tried to hide herself. Hiding oneself is very rare.

Appears she was in such a rush to get away from her car that she didn't do much to clean it up OR someone purposely splashed the wine around to make it appear just like it did - she had taken off to avoid a DUI...

Iirc it was in the media that the SBD allowed his property search early on without a warrant. This might've come from an older news article since deleted. Maybe some one here's memory on this is better than mine.

 

[Here to Help]

Here is a link that I often go to now to find Newspaper articles on Maura.
I hope this helps .

I was reading some of them again today and I really now feel that Maura was picked up by someone. Sbd told Maura that he was going to call police anyway just to check on her and then as soon as he left the activity around the car began. SBD called 911 from his porch and then went inside his bus to do paperwork. I think there is a pretty good chance that he would have seen her pass his house, SBD does make mention to several vehicles that passed by his house before CS arrived but SBD said he could not give a description of the vehicles but he feels any one of them could have picked her up.

 

[Here to Help]

http://www.tributes.com/show/Arthur-Everett-Atwood-86724370 ...

OOPS forgot the link.