GUILTY NJ - Detective Joseph Seals, slain, 5 others killed including 2 suspects, Jersey City, 9 Dec 2019

[dotr]

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[Tippy Lynn]

It’s just weird, because it doesn’t come close to cleanly fitting either mold.

A drug deal doesn’t typically devolve into a mass shooting, nor do people show up to drug deals dressed in black, with inert pipe bombs, and carrying conspicuous weapons.

But an act of terrorism or a mass shooting in general, doesn’t begin the way this once apparently did (in a cemetery, with some sort of transaction going on).

So it’s weird as all hell.

It is weird. Definitely not typical for either of those scenarios.

Don't we usually have a name or more info by now or am I being super impatient?

 

[MassGuy]

It is weird. Definitely not typical for either of those scenarios.

Don't we usually have a name or more info by now or am I being super impatient?

With the amount of agencies involved, I would have expected a leak by now. It does tend to vary wildly though.

 

[Dre]

I am also very confused as to what happened today, what the thought process and motive was. As I was transcribing downstairs, I was sure this was a hate crime.. it slowly unraveled and I feel like we must be missing something still! Interested to see what the heck happened and who exactly these perps were. sending love to the families grieving and to the community that is devastated

 

[Bravo]

I thought you folks would have this all wrapped up for me when i got home lol. This is very strange???

 

[Bravo]

Maybe we will get a bit more info soon to make sense of this.

 

[GordianKnot]

One officer killed, five others dead in Jersey City shooting

SFA:

While police were responding to reports of shots fired on Martin Luther King Drive, they learned that Seals, a father of five, was killed on Garfield Avenue near Caven Point, Kelly said. He was a member of the Cease Fire Unit, Kelly said.

Jersey City shooting: Police officer among 6 killed in shooting, standoff; Suspects dead

SFA:

Law enforcement sources say it was not just a drug deal involved as initially suspected, but Det. Seals may have been interested in the two suspects who ultimately shot and killed him because of a weekend homicide.
___________________

So, just trying to piece things together....it may have been some type of weapons deal and/or weapons bust gone bad vs. a drug deal.

That might also explain the U-Haul.

Would also be interesting to know about the murder that happened there over the weekend.
Might do some cyber snooping to see if there are any MSM articles are online r/t a murder in Jersey City last weekend.

*ETA: Found this from over the weekend.
Most probably unrelated, but you never know.
Jersey City Man Found Dead In Trunk Of Car: Prosecutor

JMO.

 

[dotr]

Live updates: New Jersey shooting - CNN

• What happened: A deadly shooting occurred during a standoff in Jersey City, New Jersey.
• The victims: Four people, including an officer, were killed, police said. Two other officers were hurt in the shooting.
• Two suspects dead: The suspects were found dead inside a building.

"The bomb squad is examining a stolen U-Haul from the scene, according to the Jersey City Police Chief Michael Kelly.

The U-Haul, which has removed from the scene, may contain an incendiary device, he said.

Kelly said the shooting investigation will "take weeks, maybe months."

“The crime scene is very extensive and is at three locations at least,” he said."

"Jersey City Councilman Jermaine Robinson told CNN affiliate News 12 New Jersey he was working in his office when he heard the gunshots from today's shooting.

The councilman said it was "something that I never heard in my life."

"This was something different," he said, adding that the gunfire "kept going and going and going without a pause."

 

[NJSleuth91]

"Jersey City Councilman Jermaine Robinson told CNN affiliate News 12 New Jersey he was working in his office when he heard the gunshots from today's shooting.

The councilman said it was "something that I never heard in my life."

"This was something different," he said, adding that the gunfire "kept going and going and going without a pause."

They played a clip of it on local news. It was continuous, extremely loud gunfire, like something from a movie or video game. Not like what you'd expect from a typical urban shootout. You could tell it wasn't using handguns.

 

[GordianKnot]

Three Jews, one police officer killed in Jersey City firefight

SFA:

According to the Fulop and Jersey City police chief Mike Kelly, Seals was heavily involved with getting guns off the streets.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said that one hassidic person was shot in his hand while running away and that two more were reportedly injured inside the store during the shooting. The ministry reported that the injured persons are not Israeli citizens.

A Chabad.org report confirmed the wounded hassidic Jew was shot multiple times while trying to sneak out the store's back door when the shooting began. However, he is said to be in good condition.

Multiple reports said that the shooting was at or near a Kosher supermarket, some citing JC Kosher Supermarket as the location and others saying it was at a nearby bodega.

"At this time, reports indicate this is a criminal incident and does not appear to be a targeted attack against the Jewish community. We will continue to monitor and update," The Secure Community Network, a North American Jewish security organization, tweeted.

"According to senior sources I spoke to minutes ago, it feels as if the incident in Jersey City was not a terror attack or a hate crime. However, the event is not over yet, the situation is ongoing and at this stage it is only a feeling," Consul General of Israel in New York Dani Dayan tweeted.

 

[GordianKnot]

Jersey City shooting timeline: How day of tragedy unfolded

SABBM:

Detective Joseph Seals, a member of the Jersey City Cease Fire Unit, approached a vehicle near the Bayview Cemetery on Garfield Avenue that was reportedly linked to a homicide in Bayonne on Saturday night, NBC New York reported.

Ah! So this may in fact turn out to be related to that murder I linked previously:

Jersey City Man Found Dead In Trunk Of Car: Prosecutor

Victim's name in that weekend murder was Michael Rumberger.
I don't think he has a thread here, but a look at his SM indicates this may in fact end up being gang-related.

 

[Dre]

They played a clip of it on local news. It was continuous, extremely loud gunfire, like something from a movie or video game. Not like what you'd expect from a typical urban shootout. You could tell it wasn't using handguns.

Bbm
The whole thing was so surreal. I can’t imagine having been there... I can’t imagine all the folks who are going to have the most fitful night of their life trying to sleep tonight

 

[MassGuy]

From the mayor of Jersey City. This is a new development, as its the first time that anyone in a position to know, has said that the deli was targeted.

Based on our initial investigation (which is ongoing) we now believe the active shooters targeted the location they attacked. Due to an excess of caution the community may see additional police resources in the days/weeks ahead. We have no indication there are any further threats

Steven Fulop on Twitter

 

[NJSleuth91]

From the mayor of Jersey City. This is a new development, as its the first time that anyone in a position to know, has said that the deli was targeted.

Based on our initial investigation (which is ongoing) we now believe the active shooters targeted the location they attacked. Due to an excess of caution the community may see additional police resources in the days/weeks ahead. We have no indication there are any further threats

Steven Fulop on Twitter

Wow people in the comments are NOT happy about the lack of information. I understand the frustration but it's only been a few hours...really not that long yet.

So what is this, a planned spree killing then? Murder one guy over the weekend, wait until the cops are onto them, murder the cop that went to investigate, and then three people in a previously determined targeted location, plus shoot some other cops and bystanders? Clearly they must have been amassing an arsenal beforehand.

The big question is, was it targeted for hate crime reasons, due to a personal grievance with someone there, or just due to other aspects that made it vulnerable as a target?

Also the news this afternoon said the shooters were a male and female. Does anyone know if that was accurate information, because I'm not finding anything on it now.

 

[MassGuy]

Wow people in the comments are NOT happy about the lack of information. I understand the frustration but it's only been a few hours...really not that long yet.

So what is this, a planned spree killing then? Murder one guy over the weekend, wait until the cops are onto them, murder the cop that went to investigate, and then three people in a previously determined targeted location, plus shoot some other cops and bystanders? Clearly they must have been amassing an arsenal beforehand.

The big question is, was it targeted for hate crime reasons, due to a personal grievance with someone there, or just due to other aspects that made it vulnerable as a target?

Also the news this afternoon said the shooters were a male and female. Does anyone know if that was accurate information, because I'm not finding anything on it now.

Yeah, there’s so many questions here. If you throw out the whole drug/weapons deal scenario, then this all makes a bit more sense. It could have been a continuation of the prior murder, and some sort of targeted/hate crime.

I’m wondering when that truck was “stolen,” because if that occurred prior, then it could have been part of whatever they were planning to do. I think that confrontation with the police officer was unexpected, and threw a wrench in their plan.

I think the initial reporting that the attackers were a male and a female was incorrect, and these are two males. I’m also wondering if their ages are wrong, as I expect them to be older than “juvenile” age.

Hopefully we get some clarity soon.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah, there’s so many questions here. If you throw out the whole drug/weapons deal scenario, then this all makes a bit more sense. It could have been a continuation of the prior murder, and some sort of targeted/hate crime.

I’m wondering when that truck was “stolen,” because if that occurred prior, then it could have been part of whatever they were planning to do. I think that confrontation with the police officer was unexpected, and threw a wrench in their plan.

You could be right that they didn't expect the police to be onto them so quickly, and maybe that set them off earlier than they originally intended. Could be why the pipe bomb was described as inert.

Also how was it stolen? Did they literally break into the U-Haul lot and steal it somehow or did they just take it as if they were using it normally and never return it?

I think the initial reporting that the attackers were a male and a female was incorrect, and these are two males. I’m also wondering if their ages are wrong, as I expect them to be older than “juvenile” age.

What makes you think they are older? The amount of weapons?

I also thought it was anomalous that it was a male and female. At first I thought maybe it was like another San Bernardino and they targeted Jersey City due to (mistakenly) thinking it had a lesser emergency services presence compared to NYC. But it seems like it's probably not ideologically motivated? Although who knows at this point.

As if 2019 didn't already have enough weird two-person spree killings with unclear details and motives....

 

[MassGuy]

You could be right that they didn't expect the police to be onto them so quickly, and maybe that set them off earlier than they originally intended. Could be why the pipe bomb was described as inert.

Also how was it stolen? Did they literally break into the U-Haul lot and steal it somehow or did they just take it as if they were using it normally and never return it?



What makes you think they are older? The amount of weapons?

I also thought it was anomalous that it was a male and female. At first I thought maybe it was like another San Bernardino and they targeted Jersey City due to (mistakenly) thinking it had a lesser emergency services presence compared to NYC. But it seems like it's probably not ideologically motivated? Although who knows at this point.

As if 2019 didn't already have enough weird two-person spree killings with unclear details and motives....

Yeah, when I heard male and female, I also thought of San Bernardino. Ironically, that was also a bit of a hybrid attack, as it was terrorism, but also a workplace shooting (he hated his coworkers).

This also looks like it could be some sort of hybrid, but who knows.

I like these guys to be a bit older, as there is a bit of sophistication here. You have to steal a truck, gather high powered weapons, and put together those inert pipe bomb devices. I’d be very surprised if they were under 18, and fairly surprised if they weren’t atleast in their early 20s.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah, when I heard male and female, I also thought of San Bernardino. Ironically, that was also a bit of a hybrid attack, as it was terrorism, but also a workplace shooting (he hated his coworkers).

This also looks like it could be some sort of hybrid, but who knows.

Yes, you're right about that. Wouldn't be surprised if this is also a hybrid attack. Like maybe a "let's target cops because we hate cops, and also this one location because of reasons, but before that, let's also kill this one guy we have a grievance with, because why not."

I like these guys to be a bit older, as there is a bit of sophistication here. You have to steal a truck, gather high powered weapons, and put together those inert pipe bomb devices. I’d be very surprised if they were under 18, and fairly surprised if they weren’t atleast in their early 20s.

Well technically they wouldn't be the first under-18s to put together a pipe bomb...but that being said I get your point. My guess is they were late teens/early 20s.

 

[fred&edna]

Has there been any additional information regarding house on Eastern Pkwy??

Yup, doesn't sound like your average drug deal gone wrong does it....

Jersey City shooting: Police officer among 6 killed in shooting, standoff; Suspects dead

(Sorry this page has a very annoying autoplay video...why is that a thing)

"Authorities say what looks like an inert pipe bomb was spotted in the U-Haul, and there was also a search going on at a house on Eastern Parkway where another inert pipe bomb was found -- though the connection is unclear."



Super weird to see the street I used to live on mentioned on Websleuths....

I have a lot of friends and acquaintances in JC. All are ok but someone I know is a teacher at a nearby school and was on lockdown for several hours.



It's high crime but not THAT high crime. It's like an "ok to walk in the daytime, probably not at night" neighborhood. Daytime shootouts of any kind are not a common occurrence. In general the murder rate in Jersey City is very low, especially compared to how it used to be in the 80s/90s.

 

[MassGuy]

Has there been any additional information regarding house on Eastern Pkwy??

There’s been no additional information about anything. Just confusion at this point.