AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #4

[MsMarple]

A determined perp can abduct the child even with the parent present. The little girl in TX was recently abducted while she was walking with her mother, mother physically couldn't stop the abduction, because obviously a man (perp) is stronger than a woman. Thankfully that little girl was recovered alive.

Exactly! I've been reading the diary written by convicted (and executed) child serial killer Westly Allan Dodd and it chills me to the bone. In it he talked about his "hunting ground" - mainly local parks - and while he passed on kids with parents very close by he also wasn't overly concerned with parents being in the area. He was caught when he got too brazen in a movie theater; the child ran away from him but a man saw him and followed him down the street and managed to hold him until the police arrived.

IOW, his compulsion to take a child was so strong that he was willing to take risks. I'm not saying there's any similarity between a child serial killer and the man who took Dulce but rather that being surrounded by people doesn't always prevent an abduction. MOO.

 

[958pm]

I believe the red suv to have been on Burt st. If that’s the case LE has video of all vehicles on Burt. That only leaves Babe Ruth in which case the abductor would have literally driven right by mom. Then left or right on scholastic. So, we must believe that there are not cameras on either babe Ruth or scholastic or they’d know who they were looking for. Maybe perp was on foot.

Link to map. We’ve all seen it a million times but just to refresh. Google Maps

While I think the AA was critical for getting Dulces face engraved in everyone’s mind, I am leaning toward the information being so off that it’s preventing someone with potentially important info from coming forward.

 

[afitzy]

That is the point I am hung up on, LE has never said publicly that the red van was behind the buildings or even in the park. This leads me to think that if the young Hispanic man exists and the red van exists that she may have been walked out of the park and put into the van outside the park.

To your point, perhaps he walked her down the service path trail to the main road where a vehicle might have been waiting. But wouldn't you expect a 5 yo child to yell or scream? We have heard nothing about noise. Would a 5 yo child have gone with a stranger willingly? Or, did the perp simply grab her and subdue her and as she wasn't that heavy simply carry her down the path to the waiting vehicle?

 

[958pm]

To your point, perhaps he walked her down the service path trail to the main road where a vehicle might have been waiting. But wouldn't you expect a 5 yo child to yell or scream? We have heard nothing about noise. Would a 5 yo child have gone with a stranger willingly? Or, did the perp simply grab her and subdue her and as she wasn't that heavy simply carry her down the path to the waiting vehicle?

I had thought that as well, but assumed the main road might be more busy and people would be more inclined to remember a parked vehicle on it. With so many dash cams now, I’m surprised that that wasn’t asked for as well..

 

[rosesfromangels]

I had thought that as well, but assumed the main road might be more busy and people would be more inclined to remember a parked vehicle on it. With so many dash cams now, I’m surprised that that wasn’t asked for as well..

From the description of the modest neighborhood, it likely isn’t a place where pricey gadgets like dash cams would be abundant?

 

[Beekarina]

From the description of the modest neighborhood, it likely isn’t a place where pricey gadgets like dash cams would be abundant?

They're actually not that expensive now. I priced them recently myself, and I'm not interested in spending much on gadgets. Haven't bought one yet, but there were options around $30. I wonder if it was assumed they would be included in "photos and video" from the park?

 

[MsBetsy]

I had thought that as well, but assumed the main road might be more busy and people would be more inclined to remember a parked vehicle on it. With so many dash cams now, I’m surprised that that wasn’t asked for as well..

I think LE are asking for any video or pictures people may have that were in the area at that time.
Do people have dashboard cameras in their cars? I know LE do but I'm not sure about the average driver. Imo

 

[squareandrabbet]

Exactly! I've been reading the diary written by convicted (and executed) child serial killer Westly Allan Dodd and it chills me to the bone. In it he talked about his "hunting ground" - mainly local parks - and while he passed on kids with parents very close by he also wasn't overly concerned with parents being in the area. He was caught when he got too brazen in a movie theater; the child ran away from him but a man saw him and followed him down the street and managed to hold him until the police arrived.

IOW, his compulsion to take a child was so strong that he was willing to take risks. I'm not saying there's any similarity between a child serial killer and the man who took Dulce but rather that being surrounded by people doesn't always prevent an abduction. MOO.

You may also recall that Ted Bundy was apprehended when he tried to abduct not one, but two women from a crowded beach, after Woman #1 fought back and got away.

 

[958pm]

I think LE are asking for any video or pictures people may have that were in the area at that time.
Do people have dashboard cameras in their cars? I know LE do but I'm not sure about the average driver. Imo

As Beekarina stated above they are increasingly becoming less expensive. They are an inexpensive tool that people of all socioeconomic groups are utilizing to document the driving experience for a multitude of reasons.

Editing : also, i’m not sure if people on outside surface streets would be inclined to turn over there Dash cam images if they didn’t identify a red van… but I heard pictures of the park between three and six… I know I also read that some businesses gave all surveillance via the online website… So they have a lot more than we know

 

[MsMarple]

You may also recall that Ted Bundy was apprehended when he tried to abduct not one, but two women from a crowded beach, after Woman #1 fought back and got away.

It was Carol DaRonch who escaped in Utah when Bundy pretended to be a police officer. The poor girls at the beach were both murdered.

As for Dulce screaming (per afitzy's question) I'm learning that most of the time little ones don't. It's possible the perp did subdue her somehow but it's equally possible he sweet talked her or even "ordered" her - IOW, anything and everything is on the table.

I believe LE is correct that it will be a tip from a local that breaks the case. Damnit.

 

[MsBetsy]

As Beekarina stated above they are increasingly becoming less expensive. They are an inexpensive tool that people of all socioeconomic groups are utilizing to document the driving experience for a multitude of reasons.

Editing : also, i’m not sure if people on outside surface streets would be inclined to turn over there Dash cam images if they didn’t identify a red van… but I heard pictures of the park between three and six… I know I also read that some businesses gave all surveillance via the online website… So they have a lot more than we know

Yes, I think they said they are investigating 500 vehicles, probably obtained from various surveillance cameras or other images.
Imo

 

[Yvettea]

Cumberland County prosecutor Jennifer Webb-McRae said at a news conference Friday that investigators have tracked down more than 500 red vehicles, but have not yet identified the man they are looking for.

Authorities release missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez's mother's 911 call

 

[otto]

@flowoftime, If one theory is that another vehicle was possibly parked close to the 2 white buildings then as @otto mentioned the other night, it might make retrace the path that a vehicle might have used to leave the park via the service access road. It looks like there is some kind of gate blocking the entrance to the service area but it would be good to know if its actually locked somehow or is it something where the gates can simply be pushed open and a vehicle might drive through easily. It might not be noticeable either if the vehicle were a truck or looked like a tradespersons vehicle as people might just assume they were in the area to work.

It's not a road or a service road. There's a guard rail along the new road, and the small piece of the old road that remains is now a pedestrian pathway now.

This is the original road

This is today

 

[958pm]

bridgeton new jersey - Google Search

Some of these pictures are helpful. Putting in proximity the basketball court to playground: bridgeton new jersey - Google Search. Also width of roads etc. and quite a few of the “houses” (buildings) referenced so often.


Adding. I’ve been thinking the orange shoes have been work boots this entire time. They are also fashionable and used as everyday wear for some. But I believe I read there were practices and games happening in close proximity. With the additional “possibly Nike” descriptor maybe this was an athlete. Maybe, god forbid a student. Maybe he walked by and knocked brothers ice-cream and noticed there was no parent and took off. He wouldn’t have stood out...and no one (even myself) wants to accuse a teenager. Today in my town we celebrate the birthday of a sweet little girl who was abused and murdered by her 15 yo neighbor. It happens.

 

[Yvettea]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> ... the 911 call gives away a greater command of English than she’s been showing. She seemed genuinely upset to me.

 

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I don't think she had any idea that she was gone for good. The way she described it was how others had seen it so for all she knew Dulce was lost or another family member or friend picked her up without telling her.

She sounded very upset in the beginning. Her voice was shaky and she seemed like she was trying not to break down but she wasn't fake or being intentionally dramatic.

She also speaks much better Spanish than Engish so some of her words might be misinterpreted.
It explains why she said in another interview that she didn't know why "she just ran away like that."
Others in the playground must have seen Dulce running around and then go towards the man when he waved her over to him.
It might explain why LE believe that she was lured away.

The only thing that I'm suspicious of is that maybe some of the 24 people playing basketball know more than they are letting on. After all, when LE first interviewed them no-one saw anything and many of them wondered off when police arrived. It was not until they tracked them down and interviewed them further that they gave them more details. Imo

 

[Yvettea]

bridgeton new jersey - Google Search

Some of these pictures are helpful. Putting in proximity the basketball court to playground: bridgeton new jersey - Google Search. Also width of roads etc. and quite a few of the “houses” (buildings) referenced so often.


Adding. I’ve been thinking the orange shoes have been work boots this entire time. They are also fashionable and used as everyday wear for some. But I believe I read there were practices and games happening in close proximity. With the additional “possibly Nike” descriptor maybe this was an athlete. Maybe, god forbid a student. Maybe he walked by and knocked brothers ice-cream and noticed there was no parent and took off. He wouldn’t have stood out...and no one (even myself) wants to accuse a teenager. Today in my town we celebrate the birthday of a sweet little girl who was abused and murdered by her 15 yo neighbor. It happens.

When you say “took off” do you have anywhere in mind? How were they going to get there, in the red van?

 

[Steelslady]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> no child should ever have to live through an kidnapping/abduction, and no parent should go through such a traumatic event.

I don't know if the Mom knows more or not. She's young, very young, to have a child that age. I think for her, where she doesn't appear to have custody of her two oldest children, it's more like a babysitting situation than it is mothering. She may mean well, but her maturity I think really speaks for itself in this awful situation. She could be innocent and truly be clueless. She's probably also tired a lot- pregnant with her third child in 5-6 years time, and she's only 19 herself- just a kid still in many ways herself.

Myself personally, I was like you as a mother, but even when I was on top of my children, two of my daughters were little Houdinis on separate occasions. One time, I was just tying my son's laces on his sneakers, and my oldest daughter, 3 years old, was gone when I looked up- and she was standing next to me just as I started tying his first sneaker! Kids can disappear so fast- even the most cautious mother in the world has a hair raising story or two of their children quietly sneaking away.

 

[PaulaDC]

<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped> no child should ever have to live through an kidnapping/abduction, and no parent should go through such a traumatic event.

I don't know if the Mom knows more or not. She's young, very young, to have a child that age. I think for her, where she doesn't appear to have custody of her two oldest children, it's more like a babysitting situation than it is mothering. She may mean well, but her maturity I think really speaks for itself in this awful situation. She could be innocent and truly be clueless. She's probably also tired a lot- pregnant with her third child in 5-6 years time, and she's only 19 herself- just a kid still in many ways herself.

Myself personally, I was like you as a mother, but even when I was on top of my children, two of my daughters were little Houdinis on separate occasions. One time, I was just tying my son's laces on his sneakers, and my oldest daughter, 3 years old, was gone when I looked up- and she was standing next to me just as I started tying his first sneaker! Kids can disappear so fast- even the most cautious mother in the world has a hair raising story or two of their children quietly sneaking away.

I had to put bells on my third daughters shoes. She outsmarted us by standing still. They're amazing creatures those little ones.

 

[Steelslady]

I had to put bells on my third daughters shoes. She outsmarted us by standing still. They're amazing creatures those little ones.

THAT is a great idea- wish I thought of that myself!