I have been known to just take cash or my debit card and run to the market just down the street.. I can't be bothered to take my purse, cell etc when its just a qick trip to grab some milk or bread.. maybe she ran to the market to get a paper or something..? Her car was located behind a 7-11 or something .. but i believe that in the survellience tapes they determined it was not marianne driving the car when it was left.
GUILTY NJ - Marianne DeMartin, 52, Marlton, 23 Sept 2005
- Thread starter audrey77
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but if she 'just ran down the street' on foot w/ cash to go to the store, and someone robbed or abducted her, how would they then know which car was hers to steal it? they would've had to have some way to connect her with the car.
but the fact that she didn't have a purse with her makes it seem like something besides a random robbery.
another possibility is that she just went outside for a minute to retrieve an item from her car, or make sure it was locked, the windows were up, or something- and she was caught off guard while either in it, or next to it- by someone watching her.
but... why the heck would someone bother to go through all the trouble of doing whatever they may have done-- in order to get the car,, and then ditch it so quickly??
THIS is what leads my speculation in a different direction-- some dispute involving money or romance, or a dispute with a neighbor, landlord, etc.. possibly someone she knew. but, without any more info on the details of her situation it's all just guesswork.
but the fact that she didn't have a purse with her makes it seem like something besides a random robbery.
another possibility is that she just went outside for a minute to retrieve an item from her car, or make sure it was locked, the windows were up, or something- and she was caught off guard while either in it, or next to it- by someone watching her.
but... why the heck would someone bother to go through all the trouble of doing whatever they may have done-- in order to get the car,, and then ditch it so quickly??
THIS is what leads my speculation in a different direction-- some dispute involving money or romance, or a dispute with a neighbor, landlord, etc.. possibly someone she knew. but, without any more info on the details of her situation it's all just guesswork.
ketel0ne
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Missing Woman Believed Murdered
At a news conference on Wednesday, prosecutors showed a surveillance tape that shows the grainy image of a car being driven into the Avain Plaza in Voorhees on September 26, 2005. The car belonged to DeMartin.
Investigators say dna taken from that car reveals evidence that DeMartin is presumed to be the victim of murder.
"In the trunk of the 2001 Mustang, we did identify certain stains. Those stains have been examined. We are satisfied based on a forensic exam that they are, in fact, blood stains that reveal the dna of Marianne DeMartin," said Burlington County prosecutor Bob Bernardi. So, who is the mystery man seen driving DeMartin's car and later with what appears to be a bag? Police have his dna, but they do not know who he is.
At a news conference on Wednesday, prosecutors showed a surveillance tape that shows the grainy image of a car being driven into the Avain Plaza in Voorhees on September 26, 2005. The car belonged to DeMartin.
Investigators say dna taken from that car reveals evidence that DeMartin is presumed to be the victim of murder.
"In the trunk of the 2001 Mustang, we did identify certain stains. Those stains have been examined. We are satisfied based on a forensic exam that they are, in fact, blood stains that reveal the dna of Marianne DeMartin," said Burlington County prosecutor Bob Bernardi. So, who is the mystery man seen driving DeMartin's car and later with what appears to be a bag? Police have his dna, but they do not know who he is.
It does seem that it could be someone likely to have known her in some way... maybe someone who knew she was leaving on a trip and thought she was likely to have a lot of cash on hand.. or jewlery. Figured they could slip in and out without being seen .. but got caught in the act.. but then the purse being left behind doesn't make sense.. did they find it intact or was there missing cash, cards, jewlery? Who ever it was just wanted to be clear quickly and new the car was a loose end that they had to get rid of quickly..however they did not consider the security tapes at the store.reb said:
I hope this new info leads somewhere quickly for Mariannes sake and her families.
Beyond Belief
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The questions about the dog, and the trip have really made me wonder. Surely if going away, she had arranged for someone to take care of the dog. The trip, there should have been bags packed.
How much cash had she withindrawn to take on the trip? When was that done?
A business woman with appointments doesn't leave with her phone. What did she say to her mother when she spoke to her? What type of notes were by her home phone? Wasn't there any mail that looked like it had been read and had to be responded too? Is there a mailbox closeby? Was anyone seen lurking around her apt?
How much cash had she withindrawn to take on the trip? When was that done?
A business woman with appointments doesn't leave with her phone. What did she say to her mother when she spoke to her? What type of notes were by her home phone? Wasn't there any mail that looked like it had been read and had to be responded too? Is there a mailbox closeby? Was anyone seen lurking around her apt?
but since there was nothing (that anyone knows of) stolen from her apt., it seems that someone must have wanted her, or her car... making it more than a random robbery.
some possibilities:
-she was a witness to something (drug activity?)
-she had called police about something she witnessed
-or she knew too much about an business associate- something illegal they were involved in
-an affair that no one knew about- the guy wanted to get rid of her
-someone was jealous of a successful business woman- perhaps he wanted to date her & she turned him down
-a random carjacking that went awry- perhaps she just ran down to move her car or get something out of it
-something related to the casino?
-just another (sadly) random killing, by a serial killer or some other creep
that's an interesting thought that someone may have known she was going on a trip.. since she was leaving the next day... i wonder if police have looked into this? but why would they think she had money on her, and still the big question....
HOW would someone get her out of her apartment, w/o her personal effects,, with no one seeing anything??
she had to have gotten into a car with someone, either by force or someone she trusted,, then they came back for the car.
as for her dog,i bet she was going to bring it over to her parents to be watched by her dad, since she was probably going over there to pick up her mom on the way to the airport (i imagine).
some possibilities:
-she was a witness to something (drug activity?)
-she had called police about something she witnessed
-or she knew too much about an business associate- something illegal they were involved in
-an affair that no one knew about- the guy wanted to get rid of her
-someone was jealous of a successful business woman- perhaps he wanted to date her & she turned him down
-a random carjacking that went awry- perhaps she just ran down to move her car or get something out of it
-something related to the casino?
-just another (sadly) random killing, by a serial killer or some other creep
that's an interesting thought that someone may have known she was going on a trip.. since she was leaving the next day... i wonder if police have looked into this? but why would they think she had money on her, and still the big question....
HOW would someone get her out of her apartment, w/o her personal effects,, with no one seeing anything??
she had to have gotten into a car with someone, either by force or someone she trusted,, then they came back for the car.
as for her dog,i bet she was going to bring it over to her parents to be watched by her dad, since she was probably going over there to pick up her mom on the way to the airport (i imagine).
Beyond Belief
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DeMartin and her mother were scheduled to go shopping on Sept. 24, a Saturday, for their upcoming trip to France, but she never showed. The trip was covered by DeMartin's frequent flier miles, her father said.
"It would be impossible for her to leave her mother stranded," Richard DeMartin said. "It wouldn't happen." DeMartin had been in Maryland on a business trip, but she returned home Friday. Her personal belongings, including her dog, cell phone and credit cards, were all found in her apartment.
TIMELINE
Sept. 23, 2005; 1:56 p.m. Marianne DeMartin arrives at 30th Street Station in Philadelphia via Amtrak returning from a business trip.
Sept. 23, 2005; 3:06 p.m. DeMartin arrives at her apartment by taxi from Philadelphia.
Sept. 23, 2005; 7:06 p.m. DeMartin has a telephone conversation at her apartment with a relative.
Sept. 25, 2005; 9:30 a.m. DeMartin's parents report her missing to Evesham police.
Sept. 25, 2005; 10:24 a.m. DeMartin is entered into NCIC along with her motor vehicle.
Sept. 26, 2005; 1:20 a.m. Unknown male parks DeMartin's vehicle behind shopping center in Voorhees.
Sept. 29, 2005; 11:45 a.m. DeMartin's 2001 Ford Mustang is recovered behind shopping center following a report to police of the location of the car.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060921/NEWS01/609210394
"It would be impossible for her to leave her mother stranded," Richard DeMartin said. "It wouldn't happen." DeMartin had been in Maryland on a business trip, but she returned home Friday. Her personal belongings, including her dog, cell phone and credit cards, were all found in her apartment.
TIMELINE
Sept. 23, 2005; 1:56 p.m. Marianne DeMartin arrives at 30th Street Station in Philadelphia via Amtrak returning from a business trip.
Sept. 23, 2005; 3:06 p.m. DeMartin arrives at her apartment by taxi from Philadelphia.
Sept. 23, 2005; 7:06 p.m. DeMartin has a telephone conversation at her apartment with a relative.
Sept. 25, 2005; 9:30 a.m. DeMartin's parents report her missing to Evesham police.
Sept. 25, 2005; 10:24 a.m. DeMartin is entered into NCIC along with her motor vehicle.
Sept. 26, 2005; 1:20 a.m. Unknown male parks DeMartin's vehicle behind shopping center in Voorhees.
Sept. 29, 2005; 11:45 a.m. DeMartin's 2001 Ford Mustang is recovered behind shopping center following a report to police of the location of the car.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060921/NEWS01/609210394
Beyond Belief
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So who was taking care of the dog while she was in maryland?
How long was she gone?
Did she run out to the car to make sure the battery hadn't died from not using it?
How long was she gone?
Did she run out to the car to make sure the battery hadn't died from not using it?
thanks for clarifying, BB!
so it must have happened that night (of the 24th) after talking to the relative.
i wonder if there is some connection with maryland (where in MD.. baltimore?).. if someone followed her from there?
so it must have happened that night (of the 24th) after talking to the relative.
i wonder if there is some connection with maryland (where in MD.. baltimore?).. if someone followed her from there?
Beyond Belief
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In the video when the person runs behind the pumps u can see some action like they are pulling up a pair of pants and tucking in a shirt/buttoning pants. i wonder if they were wearing a disguise.
I think someone was eyeing her car in her neighborhood for some time. And I think she walked out to that car for some reason and was attacked right then and there. Perhaps she actually had the trunk open in its parking place, was attacked and pushed into the truck. The perp drives away with her in the trunk.
Finding the car 1 mile away, tells me the car was used for some type of trip and that person lives in the area so left the car where it was convenient for him to walk home.
Summers pretty much over by the 25th of Sept in that area so I wouldn't think the car was used for a trip to the shore, but maybe a trip into Pa for some type of event. I wonder what was going on in Philly?
I think someone was eyeing her car in her neighborhood for some time. And I think she walked out to that car for some reason and was attacked right then and there. Perhaps she actually had the trunk open in its parking place, was attacked and pushed into the truck. The perp drives away with her in the trunk.
Finding the car 1 mile away, tells me the car was used for some type of trip and that person lives in the area so left the car where it was convenient for him to walk home.
Summers pretty much over by the 25th of Sept in that area so I wouldn't think the car was used for a trip to the shore, but maybe a trip into Pa for some type of event. I wonder what was going on in Philly?
according to a map of the area, she lives on a steet that loops... and very near 2 main highways- but then again this is NJ, so there are highways everywhere...
it also could be significant that she's pretty close to philly, i wonder if there is some ring of "professionals" that works there.. (i'm thinking of danielle imbo & richard petrone also missing from philly).
i just watched that tape-- WOW- funny to me that the article says he's walking away from the car, it looks to me like he's running! and the bag-- i wonder if that was money, or some of her personal effects he was getting rid of. he must have had help or been very good at what he does to have hid her body that quickly. i bet he drove overnight someplace far away and then took a chance in coming back to the area the next day, because he didn't have the means, connections or no-how to get rid of the vehicle... so he just left it nearby, so that it couldn't be traced to him in another city.
it's interesting that police have been unable to locate the unknown cab driver who took her home from philly. do cabs not keep phone records for some time? well i guess they do, but she probably would've hailed a cab from the train station, so i guess there would be no record of that. during the ride, she may very well have been taking about her trip, or something to the driver OR been talking on the cell phone to someone about her business trip, finances, or the france trip?? am i correct in saying that many of these guys are not even legal citizens (depending on the company)?? whether they are or not, there are definitely some shady characters out there driving cabs. AND he would have known exactly where she lived!! however if he was understanding what she was saying, he must have been someone who spoke english- or enough to know that she was a successful businesswoman.
on a side note... it also seems that she had a sense of humor, as her name was marianne demartin, "mar" for short,, and she just happened to find a home in marlton, NJ.
it's still strange that no one saw a thing.... it must be a very quiet street. then again in most neighborhoods nowadays people are holed in their homes, they don't sit on the porch and watch the world go by, like in the old days.
it also could be significant that she's pretty close to philly, i wonder if there is some ring of "professionals" that works there.. (i'm thinking of danielle imbo & richard petrone also missing from philly).
i just watched that tape-- WOW- funny to me that the article says he's walking away from the car, it looks to me like he's running! and the bag-- i wonder if that was money, or some of her personal effects he was getting rid of. he must have had help or been very good at what he does to have hid her body that quickly. i bet he drove overnight someplace far away and then took a chance in coming back to the area the next day, because he didn't have the means, connections or no-how to get rid of the vehicle... so he just left it nearby, so that it couldn't be traced to him in another city.
it's interesting that police have been unable to locate the unknown cab driver who took her home from philly. do cabs not keep phone records for some time? well i guess they do, but she probably would've hailed a cab from the train station, so i guess there would be no record of that. during the ride, she may very well have been taking about her trip, or something to the driver OR been talking on the cell phone to someone about her business trip, finances, or the france trip?? am i correct in saying that many of these guys are not even legal citizens (depending on the company)?? whether they are or not, there are definitely some shady characters out there driving cabs. AND he would have known exactly where she lived!! however if he was understanding what she was saying, he must have been someone who spoke english- or enough to know that she was a successful businesswoman.
on a side note... it also seems that she had a sense of humor, as her name was marianne demartin, "mar" for short,, and she just happened to find a home in marlton, NJ.
it's still strange that no one saw a thing.... it must be a very quiet street. then again in most neighborhoods nowadays people are holed in their homes, they don't sit on the porch and watch the world go by, like in the old days.
Knock Knock Knock . . .Maam I need you to move your car a little bit because (fill in the blank with the excuse of your choice)___________________.
OR maybe someone came to the door and asked if she knew she had left her car unlocked?
So she leaves the purse and other stuff inside but grabs her keys and nicely goes outside to her car? Then she is snatched and taken away. Maybe someone just wanted the car for awhile and was willing to kill her to get to use it. I have heard of that being done before but I am not coming to that conclusion yet but just sort of thinking out loud.
OR maybe someone came to the door and asked if she knew she had left her car unlocked?
So she leaves the purse and other stuff inside but grabs her keys and nicely goes outside to her car? Then she is snatched and taken away. Maybe someone just wanted the car for awhile and was willing to kill her to get to use it. I have heard of that being done before but I am not coming to that conclusion yet but just sort of thinking out loud.
Beyond Belief
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I am thinking that. I bet this guy lives someplace between her and where the car was parked. I want to look in "philly burbs" and see what was happening in philly last years.
Voorhees is really a very nice area and nothing like Camden which is city.
Voorhees is really a very nice area and nothing like Camden which is city.
Beyond Belief
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There was a big Bar Blitz in Philly the night of the 29, but the car had already been abandoned so it wasn't used to attend that.
There was an Eagles game the 25th...
There was an Eagles game the 25th...
exactly.
because why else would someone leave their home with only their keys, at night (since the relative spoke with her around 7 pm)..?? i can't for the life of me think of any other reason, other than to briefly run to their car for something- or to speak with someone... can anyone else? (since there were no reports of her telling someone nearby she was going to go walk to their house.)
if someone was going to target her, they probably wouldn't sit around just waiting for her to come outside at night... because they might be sitting there for a long time. they would have either called and said "meet me outside at my car" or come to the door & said "come take a ride with me" where they would have killed her. but if she knew she was going somewhere, she would have taken her purse, cell, wallet, etc. this leads me to believe that she thought she was just going to be outside for a minute.
perhaps someone took her, then threatened to kill her if she didn't withdraw a bunch of money from her ATM, and they forgot that she needed her card to do it,, got enraged or panicked, & killed her anyway??
and men usually avoid targeting women if they know there's a husband around, this would probably have to be someone who knew she was single.
it seems unlikely to me that it was just some random guy driving by-- BECAUSE-- how could they rob her when she didn't have anything on her (that we know of?) no purse, no cards to withdraw money... and they basically just moved the car, just basically moved it.
here's a thought-- if someone drove to her house, and they kidnapped her, put her in the trunk of her car & drove away (i still can't believe no one saw anything-- unless her car was hidden)-- then where did THEIR car go? that means that either:
1) they walked to her house
2) they had help (either a driver, or 2 other people who drove there after she was abducted, and one person got out and picked up the 1st guy's car)... which means it WAS planned- and which probably means it was money-related or she saw knew something & more than one person wanted her gone.
i'm thinking she may have been involved in an online dating service... or, she knew too much about something or had threatened to turn someone into the police... or she owed someone something... (casino connection? business associate?) or she was targeted to be robbed by someone who was familiar with her, but they screwed up- because she didn't have anything on her.
i wonder if she was involved in any kind of trading or investing? i've never heard of anyone getting killed over that, but you never know- it probably happens.
could be a serial killer, but they would have to be pretty bold to just go up to someone's house like that.
because why else would someone leave their home with only their keys, at night (since the relative spoke with her around 7 pm)..?? i can't for the life of me think of any other reason, other than to briefly run to their car for something- or to speak with someone... can anyone else? (since there were no reports of her telling someone nearby she was going to go walk to their house.)
if someone was going to target her, they probably wouldn't sit around just waiting for her to come outside at night... because they might be sitting there for a long time. they would have either called and said "meet me outside at my car" or come to the door & said "come take a ride with me" where they would have killed her. but if she knew she was going somewhere, she would have taken her purse, cell, wallet, etc. this leads me to believe that she thought she was just going to be outside for a minute.
perhaps someone took her, then threatened to kill her if she didn't withdraw a bunch of money from her ATM, and they forgot that she needed her card to do it,, got enraged or panicked, & killed her anyway??
and men usually avoid targeting women if they know there's a husband around, this would probably have to be someone who knew she was single.
it seems unlikely to me that it was just some random guy driving by-- BECAUSE-- how could they rob her when she didn't have anything on her (that we know of?) no purse, no cards to withdraw money... and they basically just moved the car, just basically moved it.
here's a thought-- if someone drove to her house, and they kidnapped her, put her in the trunk of her car & drove away (i still can't believe no one saw anything-- unless her car was hidden)-- then where did THEIR car go? that means that either:
1) they walked to her house
2) they had help (either a driver, or 2 other people who drove there after she was abducted, and one person got out and picked up the 1st guy's car)... which means it WAS planned- and which probably means it was money-related or she saw knew something & more than one person wanted her gone.
i'm thinking she may have been involved in an online dating service... or, she knew too much about something or had threatened to turn someone into the police... or she owed someone something... (casino connection? business associate?) or she was targeted to be robbed by someone who was familiar with her, but they screwed up- because she didn't have anything on her.
i wonder if she was involved in any kind of trading or investing? i've never heard of anyone getting killed over that, but you never know- it probably happens.
could be a serial killer, but they would have to be pretty bold to just go up to someone's house like that.
looking at the tape again.... is that guy wearing shorts? the bottom of his legs look white- are those socks, or just the reflection on the bottom of the pantlegs? also it looks as if there's a second person to the guy's right..... or is that just his shadow? and what are those white things on either side of him right before he goes behind the pump (or whatever that thing is)? are those 2 white bags he's carrying? when he puts the bag(s) down, he appears to be possibly rifling through it/them.
ahh, too bad the store couldn't afford a better camera with higher-grade film.
i wonder what's in the bags(s)---- materials they used to clean up? other personal effects & evidence? clothing/shoes? something else they stole from her?
ahh, too bad the store couldn't afford a better camera with higher-grade film.
i wonder what's in the bags(s)---- materials they used to clean up? other personal effects & evidence? clothing/shoes? something else they stole from her?
Beyond Belief
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I wonder when she walked the dog. she was gone for a few days, so who would even know that it was her car. she would have to have had to be at the car when attacked.
it was just on greta. they said they can't get the tape any better.
i think the person has shorts on. its hard to tell what they're doing behind the gaspump. they seem to be messing around their feet and then working her way up. Maybe putting shoes on. I sent an email to that tv station to see if they would make a slide show out of it. I can get an image if I use the 'hot button wax', but its not recognizable.
it was just on greta. they said they can't get the tape any better.
i think the person has shorts on. its hard to tell what they're doing behind the gaspump. they seem to be messing around their feet and then working her way up. Maybe putting shoes on. I sent an email to that tv station to see if they would make a slide show out of it. I can get an image if I use the 'hot button wax', but its not recognizable.
maybe a friend or dogsitter watched her dog, or her parents were watching it and brought it back to her after she came home... it doesn't say. it does look as if the guy is wearing shorts, and behind the gas pump maybe he is either looking through the bags to double check what's in there (before throwing it out?) or taking out anything in there that could tie him to the crime... or as you said maybe changing shoes. he definitely looks like he is in a hurry. i'm assuming they already looked at her cell phone way back when-- and checked out some of the last people she spoke with (esp anyone she talked to that night)...
does it say anywhere that they ruled out the man who was seen looking at her car at the wawa in the daytime- the one they first questioned? i wonder if they've already ruled out that these 2 guys are the same person? of course he could have been just an innocent bystander admiring the car... and then the poor guy gets hauled in to the police! it's probably doubtful that the perp would come back to the scene, but you never know... he might have still been thinking about taking it, and come back to see if it was still there...?
this man must have had an alibi since he seems to have been cleared.
does it say anywhere that they ruled out the man who was seen looking at her car at the wawa in the daytime- the one they first questioned? i wonder if they've already ruled out that these 2 guys are the same person? of course he could have been just an innocent bystander admiring the car... and then the poor guy gets hauled in to the police! it's probably doubtful that the perp would come back to the scene, but you never know... he might have still been thinking about taking it, and come back to see if it was still there...?
this man must have had an alibi since he seems to have been cleared.
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