NJ NJ - Mindy Jordan, 46, missing from cruise ship off Atlantic City, 11 May 2008

[SuziQ]

http://gothamist.com/2008/05/16/fbi_cruise_disp.php

FBI: Cruise Disppearance "Does Not Suggest Crime" (So Far)


There are more answers and questions regarding the disappearance of a NJ woman from a cruise ship. The Norwegian Cruise Line company said surveillance videos show 46-year-old Mindy Jordan alone in her room and falling from her cabin's balcony, and the FBI said, "The information that we have acquired does not suggest a crime, but that is not definitive," and said it would continue with the investigation (the FBI did seize the cruise's railings).

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20080516_FBI__Fall_off_cruise_ship_apparently_no_crime.html



(snip)
Agents sent the railing and the glass partition from the couple's balcony to a laboratory to be examined for fingerprints and other evidence, said Special Agent Jim Margolin, a spokesman for the FBI's New York office.
An exterior video shows the railing of Jordan's balcony but not the area within it, cruise line spokeswoman AnneMarie Mathews said yesterday. She said she had not seen the footage and was not certain whether it showed what Jordan had been doing before falling.
Agents plan to have the surveillance video enhanced.
"It's not as clear as we might have hoped," Margolin said. Normally, the FBI does not disclose its findings in a case in which no charges are filed. But in this case, "it's conceivable . . . that if it was an accident, we might announce our findings," Margolin said.

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.nbc40.net/view_story.php?id=5600

(snips)
The FBI is continuing to investigate the overboard falling of a New Jersey woman.

The FBI says it doesn't look like foul play was involved in her fall, however they do stress that surveillance video isn't clear enough to determine exactly what happened.

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/loc...izes_video__railing_in_cruise-ship_death.html

FBI spokesman Jim Margolin quoted an FBI higher-up as stating that, so far, the agency's investigation "hasn't indicated that a crime had been committed," but that the probe was still active.

 

[Linda7NJ]

did they find her body?

 

[JBean]

JBean: It has been so many years since I've cruised. There were no balconies way back when.
Is there a divider of some sort between the balconies? So that in order to get from the balcony of your cabin to the balcony of the next-door cabin, you would have to be out over the edge of the railing?

This was a ship at sea? Even on the large ships, when out at sea there are times when the ship "lurches" - you can be just walking down a hallway and you need to reach out and grab a railing. Or do they not have railings anymore?

The last cruises I ever took were Windjammer cruises. I liked the sailing better than the Loveboat style trip.

Yes there is a divider and the balconies are separatd by that. I imagine they were clowning around and talking back and forth. I know I do that with my kids when we have adjoining balconies. I think Adnoid posted a picture ealrier that captures it.

 

[JBean]

I went on a cruise in late January this year. My wife and I had a room adjoining a room for our kids, both with balconies. I suppose you could have climbed from one to another, but I would never try. Here's a picture from our balcony that kind of shows the layout:

here is a typical adjoining balcony situation separated by a divider.

 

[nanandjim]

I just do not think that they would be doing that when it is pitch black out and stormy. She was a very small woman and would have a tough time climbing over or even clowning around, pretending to do it. I'm not buying it.

 

[SuziQ]

did they find her body?

Unfortunately no.

 

[JBean]

I just do not think that they would be doing that when it is pitch black out and stormy. She was a very small woman and would have a tough time climbing over or even clowning around, pretending to do it. I'm not buying it.

Do we know if at that moment it was raining and storming? Perhaps the rain was coming from the other direction and things were calmer and protected on that side? I have no idea. But as my dh would say: I think there is a logical explantion that I'll make up later.

 

[FlowerChild]

I am embarassed to admit that I have done such a stupid thing once myself...a little giddy, tipsy or brave can make smart people do unbelievably stupd things.

I think it was an accident...

That's what I think also. I think Mindy had a drink (or 2 or 5), a nice dinner, was enjoying the cruise and for some reason thought she'd do something "wild" and "funny" and stand on the balcony rail or climb to the friend's balcony from her balcony. She was only 46 - not that old, she probably thought it would be "easy". So she tried it, perhaps calling out to Jorge on the other balcony. Jorge saw her, tried to help her or stop her but despite that, she lost her grip or balance and fell.

As I said earlier, having been on a cruise or two with a group of people I can say that people do a LOT of things on a cruise that they would NEVER do at home - like engage in behavior that is NOT typical. People drink too much, eat too much, party too much and generally let their hair down because they feel "safe" and know they don't have to drive anywhere or get up early etc. A cruise ship is just a movable 7 day, all inclusive "party palace". It's why cruises are so popular - instead of you traveling, the ship (and your room and meals) travels from one exotic destination to another. Was this Mindy's first cruise?

Jorge may be the world's biggest creep but so far the information (and video and witnesses) back his version of events. It's a big step from smacking Mindy around to killing her, pretty much in front of her friends, from THEIR room. I cannot think of a scenario where Jorge murdered Mindy that is possible with him being in in the room next door with TWO of HER friends for almost 20 minutes BEFORE she fell off the balcony of her own room. In fact, it may be that Jorge TRIED to stop her or save her and failed - in which case him being a suspect in her death must seem like a horrible never-ending nightmare. Mindy and Jorge were STILL TOGETHER despite his previous abuse - they CHOSE to go on the cruise together with Mindy's friends. There was obviously "love" between them - Plus, from all accounts Jorge tried frantically to get the ship to "stop" and find Mindy and even called Mindy's family HIMSELF - told her mother what happened - knowing she hated him and would blame HIM for Mindy's death. Jorge could have let NCL or the FBI call Mindy's family and yet he did it himself - that is not a scenario that screams foul play to me.

My Opinion

 

[SuziQ]

Jorge may be the world's biggest creep but so far the information (and video and witnesses) back his version of events. It's a big step from smacking Mindy around to killing her, pretty much in front of her friends, from THEIR room. I cannot think of a scenario where Jorge murdered Mindy that is possible with him being in in the room next door with TWO of HER friends for almost 20 minutes BEFORE she fell off the balcony of her own room. In fact, it may be that Jorge TRIED to stop her or save her and failed - in which case him being a suspect in her death must seem like a horrible never-ending nightmare. Mindy and Jorge were STILL TOGETHER despite his previous abuse - they CHOSE to go on the cruise together with Mindy's friends. There was obviously "love" between them - Plus, from all accounts Jorge tried frantically to get the ship to "stop" and find Mindy and even called Mindy's family HIMSELF - told her mother what happened - knowing she hated him and would blame HIM for Mindy's death. Jorge could have let NCL or the FBI call Mindy's family and yet he did it himself - that is not a scenario that screams foul play to me.

My Opinion

First off, breaking bones in someone's face is a far cry from smacking someone around. Second, you have to be kidding me about the "love" part. This relationship was more about his anger and control issues and her low self esteem. I highly doubt it had anything to do with love whatsoever.

WS is filled with threads where at first glance a murder was thought to be an accident. Heck, I'll admit that's a possibility. I also think suicide is a possibility. But I'm going to wait to see what the FBI says, since they are still investigating and going so far as to take the deck railing and partition with them. Sometimes though, there are perfect crimes that can never be proven.

 

[Rino]

First off, breaking bones in someone's face is a far cry from smacking someone around. Second, you have to be kidding me about the "love" part. This relationship was more about his anger and control issues and her low self esteem. I highly doubt it had anything to do with love whatsoever.

WS is filled with threads where at first glance a murder was thought to be an accident. Heck, I'll admit that's a possibility. I also think suicide is a possibility. But I'm going to wait to see what the FBI says, since they are still investigating and going so far as to take the deck railing and partition with them. Sometimes though, there are perfect crimes that can never be proven.

I don't buy suicide. Makes no sense to me you plan a vacation only of kill youself a few hours into it.

Many relationships are poison but none the less love is there. I don't question he loved her or her him. I am a firm believerthat love is not enough to make a good pairing.

 

[SuziQ]

Here is another case that investigators are having a hard time proving foul play even though they highly suspect it.

http://www.cruisebruise.com/Cruise_Videos/Cruise_Video_345.html

 

[Ntegrity]

I don't buy suicide. Makes no sense to me you plan a vacation only of kill youself a few hours into it.

I've thought about that too. The only rationale I can come up with for suicide on a ship would be to implicate him -- sort of a revenge thing. However, he had an alibi since he was in the next room with friends so that doesn't work either.

 

[SuziQ]

I don't buy suicide. Makes no sense to me you plan a vacation only of kill youself a few hours into it.

Many relationships are poison but none the less love is there. I don't question he loved her or her him. I am a firm believerthat love is not enough to make a good pairing.

I don't have the stats, but suicides do happen on cruise ships.

Relating abuse to love in any form is like saying a rapist rapes for sex.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I am having a difficult time believing it was anything except an accident with him having an alibi. Plus...why would anyone who was out to commit murder at sea do it 3 hours into a fabulous vacation? Makes no sense. He would have waited until the return trip instead of ruining his vacation.

As far as a suicide on her part...I don't think that fits either. No note. Nothing out of the ordinary at dinner right before. I think someone would have noticed an aloof type behavior from her if she was contemplating suicide.

I think she was having fun and being irresponsible by climbing over into the next balcony, but her mother will never accept it because of the man's behavior from before. I can't blame her, but I don't think she is ever going to believe her daughter could have brought this on herself. It is very sad.

 

[Rino]

I don't have the stats, but suicides do happen on cruise ships.

Relating abuse to love in any form is like saying a rapist rapes for sex.

I'm sure they do, I just don't think it was the case in this instance.

I don't relate abuse to love, I do acknowledge that victims of abuse may love the abuser and visa versa.

 

[Ntegrity]

Relating abuse to love in any form is like saying a rapist rapes for sex.

I don't agree. Many abused women do love the men who abuse them.

 

[SuziQ]

I am having a difficult time believing it was anything except an accident with him having an alibi. Plus...why would anyone who was out to commit murder at sea do it 3 hours into a fabulous vacation? Makes no sense. He would have waited until the return trip instead of ruining his vacation.

Anger takes over quickly. This may not have been planned.