NJ NJ - Mindy Jordan, 46, missing from cruise ship off Atlantic City, 11 May 2008

[SeriouslySearching]

I think what SS means is that a child in an abusive relationship isn't given a choice whether or not to love his parent, usually they learn to love unconditionally, even when they are being abused. Whereas, an adult woman has entered an abusive relationship by choice, even if she didn't know going into it the guy was abusive, she certainly makes the choice to stay in it, even if it's only because she feels she has no options. Many abused women do successfully leave abusive relationships and go on to live better lives.

LOL YES! Thanks!

 

[Ntegrity]

So you are in fact talking about your mother's feelings? Because this doesn't apply to the children of an abuser.

Exactly.

 

[Rino]

I think what SS means is that a child in an abusive relationship isn't given a choice whether or not to love his parent, usually they learn to love unconditionally, even when they are being abused. Whereas, an adult woman has entered an abusive relationship by choice, even if she didn't know going into it the guy was abusive, she certainly makes the choice to stay in it, even if it's only because she feels she has no options. Many abused women do successfully leave abusive relationships and go on to live better lives.

A good example that comes to mind is the FLDS women and children...

I agree completely then.. But leaving does not mean love has vanished or never existed.

 

[SuziQ]

LOL Not if the FBI has anything to say about it.

Dag Nabbit!

Oh my, did you read this from Greta's transcript? Of course this would happen to a producer for "Geraldo at large".


VAN SUSTEREN: Now, "Geraldo at Large" producer Greg Hart (ph) caught up with Jorge Caputo earlier today when he arrived back in the United States at Newark airport. Caputo was whisked away. But where was his luggage? Well, there was a bit of a commotion at the baggage carousel. Producer Greg Hart saw police officers escorting some passengers with their baggage to a squad car waiting outside the airport. Greg decided to follow them to see if they would lead him to Jorge, but instead, Greg ended up being punched in the face by someone in the group. No sign of Jorge. Geraldo, of course, will have more on this Saturday night at 8:00 PM Eastern.

 

[Ntegrity]

I agree completely then.. But leaving does not mean love has vanished or never existed.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[LinasK]

I agree completely then.. But leaving does not mean love has vanished or never existed.

But what they think is love for their abuser, oftentimes is the "Stockholm Syndrome", where they bond with their abuser/captor, and once they are removed from the abusive situation, they often see that the feelings they thought were love for the abuser really weren't.
At first when they discovered Elizabeth Smart, she didn't give her real name and kept pretending the identity her captors made her out to be. Patty Hearst's Tania identity and participation in the SLA bank robbery also comes to mind. Once Patty was deprogrammed from her brainwashing, she went back to her old personality.

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

Gosh you guys are busy today! I have to play catch up!

 

[philamena]

From post 234-

FBI says this:
An FBI assistant director, Mark Mershon, told Fox News yesterday that the video provided by the cruise line is not clean enough to determine exactly what happened, but "the information that we have acquired does not suggest a crime, but that is not definitive.

That's quite different than what was reported Thursday.
Now I really smell a rat.

 

[angelmom]

Interesting post:

Check out comment #14 at this link:
http://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.com/2008/05/13...dy-jordan-went-overboard-was-clowning-around/

Jack from PA on May 14th, 2008 4:56 pm
Anyone who knew Jorge and Mindy would know that clowning around like this was well within Mindy’s persona and that Jorge would not be capable, both mentally and physically to have helped in anyway.
I have known both for about 4 yrs.and if I was told Mindy was walking on the rails, I would belive it. That was just the way she was. Yes she was a caring person and a sucessful nurse, but the gloves came off when she was on her down time.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Here is another case that investigators are having a hard time proving foul play even though they highly suspect it.

http://www.cruisebruise.com/Cruise_Videos/Cruise_Video_345.html

I find this story intriguing. But when you look at the balcony pictured behind this "missing" woman, it isn't inconcievable to see how someone could go overboard. It would take a person (s) to get them over the edge, involuntarily. If the person was suicidal, drunk, and blown off the ledge from storm, these can be other factors.

I am glad the FBI is doing fingerprints on the glass partition and railing, hopefully the rain didn't wash it off. I gather blood was not present on the outside of the boat, from one of the pics backaways, it appeared that the life boats were below her room. How ironic is that?

Never defend your feelings around abusers. Enabling a violent abuser, is a crime in itself.

 

[fran]

I hope the victim's family is able to view the videos.

What bothers me is the bf has more than one story. Why?

fran

 

[KR2tonenow]

It just occured to me... why "was she clowning around"?. Maybe he was clowning around, jumped the railing, grabbed her 98 lb body and "accidently" flew her over the ledge. When the turbulence is bad this could happen. The interior of balcony has no CAM. The other couple were too sick with motion sickness, this could have happened in a matter of 17 minutes!

 

[Leila]

did they find her body?

There's been no mention of finding Mindy's body.

I'm glad you brought this up, as I have a question I hope someone can answer. I know nothing about currents and conditions on the Atlantic ocean. The ship was about 45 miles off the coast. Would we expect that her body would eventually wash ashore?

I'm trying to remember what I've read of the Titanic disaster. I seem to recall that some bodies did wash ashore in Nova Scotia, which was hundreds of miles from where the Titanic sank.

 

[Linda7NJ]

There's been no mention of finding Mindy's body.

I'm glad you brought this up, as I have a question I hope someone can answer. I know nothing about currents and conditions on the Atlantic ocean. The ship was about 45 miles off the coast. Would we expect that her body would eventually wash ashore?

I'm trying to remember what I've read of the Titanic disaster. I seem to recall that some bodies did wash ashore in Nova Scotia, which was hundreds of miles from where the Titanic sank.

excellent question, I have no idea. I am always shoced when bodies lost at sea wash up...I always think the critters that live there...well you know:silenced:

 

[KOOL LOOK]

http://gothamist.com/2008/05/16/fbi_cruise_disp.php

FBI: Cruise Disppearance "Does Not Suggest Crime" (So Far)


There are more answers and questions regarding the disappearance of a NJ woman from a cruise ship. The Norwegian Cruise Line company said surveillance videos show 46-year-old Mindy Jordan alone in her room and falling from her cabin's balcony, and the FBI said, "The information that we have acquired does not suggest a crime, but that is not definitive," and said it would continue with the investigation (the FBI did seize the cruise's railings).

Just a theory that crossed my mind as I was catching up on this thread.

Could it be, they checked in their cabin at 7:28p.m., the report states within minutes caputa leaves their cabin and enters the adjoining friends cabin. Then at 7:53 p.m. outside surveillance camera captures mindy going overboard from her balcony railing from her cabin straight into the water.

I find this activity of these two individuals very very weird. Okay, of course the socializing is fun, common and definately what they are and should be doing. But everyone picture yourself and your mate checking into a motel room our cruise cabin, in just a few short minutes is one leaving to go socialize with another without sort of jumpin on the cabin beds, unpackin, restroom break, cheers to each other in the conversation of how much fun this adventure will be, glad we're here together, probably most couples would have an intimant encounter right then. I find this to be normal.

Why did caputa get checked into the cabin, stay long enough then leave and go next door. Then to only have mindy hangin out on the balcony for pete's sake. I believe she was possibly drugged, drank and encouraged to drink, and they either had a conversation of hey wonder if one of us can cross over the balcony, or lets see if it's possible.

Or it could be even more sinister, he set her up in her weakened disoriented state, convinced her it was for the best, which I doubt, but he mentally planted the seed, maybe even made it a game of fun challenge, when truly he knew this was very risky.

The other passengers recount of the weather conditions make me so darn suspicious of this. We can't see what transpired between the two of them, even if he and the friends were in the same cabin, they weren't in between these twos, faces, hands and eyes. He could have been encouraging her onward to come to him with his eyes and lips and never voiced anything to be heard by those in the same cabin as he.

This incident, had it happened much later in the hours upon boarding, or the next several days, then yeah, I may be feeling an accident. But it's the timing that's speaking to me as a red flag. He and she gets in the cabin, minutes later, which is very weird, leaves and goes next door, not to borrow anything, but next thing we all know is he has left the cabin went next door, and shazaam, she's on the balcony attempting to cross over according to him.

Did anyone say if the video shows him trying to pull and save her, or does all the video show is her falling straight down into the water, no caputa, not his hands arms, face anything?

Everybody always christens there new place, if not nothing but sit or jump on the new bed with high fives.

 

[csds703]

Just a theory that crossed my mind as I was catching up on this thread.

Could it be, they checked in their cabin at 7:28p.m., the report states within minutes caputa leaves their cabin and enters the adjoining friends cabin. Then at 7:53 p.m. outside surveillance camera captures mindy going overboard from her balcony railing from her cabin straight into the water.

I find this activity of these two individuals very very weird. Okay, of course the socializing is fun, common and definately what they are and should be doing. But everyone picture yourself and your mate checking into a motel room our cruise cabin, in just a few short minutes is one leaving to go socialize with another without sort of jumpin on the cabin beds, unpackin, restroom break, cheers to each other in the conversation of how much fun this adventure will be, glad we're here together, probably most couples would have an intimant encounter right then. I find this to be normal.

Why did caputa get checked into the cabin, stay long enough then leave and go next door. Then to only have mindy hangin out on the balcony for pete's sake. I believe she was possibly drugged, drank and encouraged to drink, and they either had a conversation of hey wonder if one of us can cross over the balcony, or lets see if it's possible.

Or it could be even more sinister, he set her up in her weakened disoriented state, convinced her it was for the best, which I doubt, but he mentally planted the seed, maybe even made it a game of fun challenge, when truly he knew this was very risky.

The other passengers recount of the weather conditions make me so darn suspicious of this. We can't see what transpired between the two of them, even if he and the friends were in the same cabin, they weren't in between these twos, faces, hands and eyes. He could have been encouraging her onward to come to him with his eyes and lips and never voiced anything to be heard by those in the same cabin as he.

This incident, had it happened much later in the hours upon boarding, or the next several days, then yeah, I may be feeling an accident. But it's the timing that's speaking to me as a red flag. He and she gets in the cabin, minutes later, which is very weird, leaves and goes next door, not to borrow anything, but next thing we all know is he has left the cabin went next door, and shazaam, she's on the balcony attempting to cross over according to him.

Did anyone say if the video shows him trying to pull and save her, or does all the video show is her falling straight down into the water, no caputa, not his hands arms, face anything?

Everybody always christens there new place, if not nothing but sit or jump on the new bed with high fives.

Kool

They were already on the boat for hours. The check in starts about 1pm.
The ship leaves the port about 4pm. Most passengers go to the top deck when the ship sails off. They had dinner and then went back to their room. There are alot of different things going on, so it wouldn't be unusual to go next door to ask their travel companions what they wanted to do next and when. My point is they had time to christen the room earlier.

I agree something is wrong with this scenario, but I think you're theory is going in the wrong direction.

Even if this woman was drunk, I don't understand why she would be climbing over the balcony for fun.

I can faster see that she was out on the balcony sticking her head around to talk , he coaxed her to climb over and assured her that he would catch her or hold on to her. Whether he intentionally let her go, or the winds and rocking caused her to go over is what I don't know.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Kool

They were already on the boat for hours. The check in starts about 1pm.
The ship leaves the port about 4pm. Most passengers go to the top deck when the ship sails off. They had dinner and then went back to their room. There are alot of different things going on, so it wouldn't be unusual to go next door to ask their travel companions what they wanted to do next and when. My point is they had time to christen the room earlier.

I agree something is wrong with this scenario, but I think you're theory is going in the wrong direction.

Even if this woman was drunk, I don't understand why she would be climbing over the balcony for fun.

I can faster see that she was out on the balcony sticking her head around to talk , he coaxed her to climb over and assured her that he would catch her or hold on to her. Whether he intentionally let her go, or the winds and rocking caused her to go over is what I don't know.

So they had been to their rooms earlier? I didn't know this, thanks. So he had plenty of time to get climbing on the balcony rails, leaning on and over them, crossing over planted in her mind. Or just casually bring it up in conversation between the two of them. I tell ya, the power of suggestion is much more powerful than what I believe some on here realize.

I know personally speaking, I could probably talk many many people into doing something like what mindy done. Shamefully and painfully, I know I could, especially if I was evil and sinister. And if they were of a weaker constitution than I. I tell ya, I know how to control another, I just choose not to because it's not becoming unto the Lord.

I would like to hear and see an actual video interview of caputa and the next door friends, so i could do some discerning. Thanks csds for the reply. Hands down, this woman was a means of intelligence, and with the way those described the weather to be, most women are petrified, scared and extremely overly protective in weather of this kind.

Especially when your face to face with it, splashing, pounding your face cheeks, the coldness, the damp wetness, the powerful forces of the wind, and the darkness, geez, visualizing myself in her shoes on that night in that cabin leaning over that rail to cross over by myself, nopers, not even had I embibed.

 

[RiverRat]

I VERY much disagree with what you wrote. As of right now this does look, to me, like a tragic accident. I have only been on 3 cruises in my life, but on the one I took in January I saw how people got totally messed up, having friends get them drinks when the bartenders cut them off and generally behaving like idiots. So I could see someone with little self control doing something stupid like climbing around the balconies.

But I cannot agree that physical abuse of any sort is trivial and is consistent with a loving relationship. I have never struck a woman in my life, I cannot conceive of it, and there is no way in Hell I could ever reconcile doing so with love in any way, shape or form. I do not understand why a woman would have any sort of relationship with a man that hits her. To do so demonstrates a level of disrespect so profound that, to me, the distance between slapping and killing is minuscule compared to the distance between loving and slapping. My opinion.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[FlowerChild]

Interesting post:

Check out comment #14 at this link:
http://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.com/2008/05/13...dy-jordan-went-overboard-was-clowning-around/

Jack from PA on May 14th, 2008 4:56 pm
Anyone who knew Jorge and Mindy would know that clowning around like this was well within Mindy’s persona and that Jorge would not be capable, both mentally and physically to have helped in anyway.
I have known both for about 4 yrs.and if I was told Mindy was walking on the rails, I would belive it. That was just the way she was. Yes she was a caring person and a sucessful nurse, but the gloves came off when she was on her down time.

Sounds like Mindy let her hair down when she was partying and having fun. Perhaps Mindy was known (by her friends and co-workers) to act impulsively and cut-up when she was away from work - which would certainly include being on a cruise and away from "real life".

I think this was an accident and that Mindy was cutting up and being goofy. I think Jorge probably encouraged Mindy to be crazy and liked it when she was impulsive and let her hair down. He probably feels very guilty for not stopping her from behaving dangerously. I think we are judging Jorge based on very little info and few facts. Everything we know about Jorge seems to come from a biased source and none of Mindy and Jorge's friends are saying he was abusive or hit Mindy all the time. Her friends even went on a CRUISE with Jorge and Mindy - not what I consider to be something friends who knew Mindy was being abused would do.

My Opinion

 

[OneLostGrl]

Right here.

I don't have a problem with you voicing a different opinion as long as you don't act like your opinion is the only one that counts. We all have different life experiences and not every situation fits into a preconceived notion of what it should be. I abhor physical violence but I do know for a fact that love for one's spouse or BF can still exist in spite of it.

I agree completely- especially if the adult abuse victim also happens to have been born and raised in a home where abuse took place.
They know nothing else... no other kind of love exisits to them!