NJ - Multiple Deaths in Mansion Fire, Monmouth County, Colts Neck, 20 Nov 2018 *Arrest*

[Lilibet]

Right - but to have nothing on him or the car? Nothing at all? Unless someone was wearing a hazmat suit I don't see how they could happen. Which doesn't mean it didn't happen; just that I can't imagine it.

The thing is, on just about every case there is something we can’t imagine happening, but it does. Be thankful our imaginations don’t stretch far enough to cover the evil things people do.

 

[Delevanjo]

Great point. If your house caught on fire at 5am and everyone ran out in their pajamas, and your brother/business partner had a nearby huge mansion, wouldn't the natural thing to do be to send the wife and daughters to stay over there? Oh wait, honey, you can't go over there because of the dead bodies and fire about to erupt at 12pm? Let's just sit in this car for hours.

The communications and behaviors between 5:01am and noon will be interesting to learn. The news reports and PC lawyers quotes make it sound as if they (PC & family) were at the police station during that time...but, I agree - wouldn't you call or text your family almost immediately?! They're only a few miles/minutes away.

 

[carbuff]

The communications and behaviors between 5:01am and noon will be interesting to learn. The news reports and PC lawyers quotes make it sound as if they (PC & family) were at the police station during that time...but, I agree - wouldn't you call or text your family almost immediately?! They're only a few miles/minutes away.

When you're going through a traumatic experience like watching your house burn down, you don't always do the obvious rational thing. Shock and fear can send you into paralysis or hysteria or any of a number of other reactions that are nothing like what you think you'd do.

 

[Inthedetails]

dlete

 

[Delevanjo]

Shock and fear can send you into paralysis or hysteria or any of a number of other reactions that are nothing like what you think you'd do.

I agree with you for the most part and my question was somewhat rhetorical. However, I've personal experience with traumatic death/violence on more than one occasion (in fact, as recently as 3 weeks ago following a shooting at the yoga studio where practice) as well as focused study of violence and trauma at a doctoral level. People do react differently, but it is unusual - even amid the shock and chaos - for people to not reach out to family/close friends in the hours if not minutes after tragedy. More to the point, if I'm not mistaken, first responders are trained to (try to) keep victims calm and aid them in thinking who to contact (family/close friends). Perhaps there are some on the forum who could comment?

All that said - I don't know that PC and his immediately family didn't reach out to family - the post I was responding to assumes they didn't (and thus, my somewhat casual response).

 

[bears10]

When you're going through a traumatic experience like watching your house burn down, you don't always do the obvious rational thing. Shock and fear can send you into paralysis or hysteria or any of a number of other reactions that are nothing like what you think you'd do.

But he set the fires himself, so I think it’s less likely that he was in shock. Fear, maybe, but not because of his house fire. JMO

 

[carbuff]

But he set the fires himself, so I think it’s less likely that he was in shock. Fear, maybe, but not because of his house fire. JMO

He's accused of setting the fires himself. While I think that's almost certainly true, I prefer to keep an open mind until there's a confession/conviction, or at least more evidence released.

 

[Inthedetails]

Possible scenarios:

1. Paul killed Keith & family and set fire to both houses to look like both brothers were targeted.
2. Paul and Keith were both targets and Paul was lucky to escape (but why wasn't Paul's family attacked like Keith's was before the fire was set?)
3. Someone set up the crimes to look like Paul was responsible for them.

Any other possibilities?

jmo

 

[Lilibet]

I agree with you for the most part and my question was somewhat rhetorical. However, I've personal experience with traumatic death/violence on more than one occasion (in fact, as recently as 3 weeks ago following a shooting at the yoga studio where practice) as well as focused study of violence and trauma at a doctoral level. People do react differently, but it is unusual - even amid the shock and chaos - for people to not reach out to family/close friends in the hours if not minutes after tragedy. More to the point, if I'm not mistaken, first responders are trained to (try to) keep victims calm and aid them in thinking who to contact (family/close friends). Perhaps there are some on the forum who could comment?

All that said - I don't know that PC and his immediately family didn't reach out to family - the post I was responding to assumes they didn't (and thus, my somewhat casual response).

I’m so sorry about your recent experience at the yoga studio!

I think that Paul would at least contact his brother at some point before noon to let him know he wouldn’t be at work that day. And perhaps he did call the office. As you pointed out, at this point we don’t know. But it will be interesting to find out. If he did start both fires, whether or not he made a phone call could be the little detail that makes the difference in evidence.

 

[Lilibet]

Possible scenarios:

1. Paul killed Keith & family and set fire to both houses to look like both brothers were targeted.
2. Paul and Keith were both targets and Paul was lucky to escape (but why wasn't Paul's family attacked like Keith's was before the fire was set?)
3. Someone set up the crimes to look like Paul was responsible for them.

Any other possibilities?

jmo

I can’t tnink of any other possibilities. Each scenario has problems, so I don’t envy LE.

Even though Paul’s arrest for arson at his own house pretty well convinces me that he killed Keith and his family, I can’t figure out why he’d take the risk trying to make it look as if they were both targets. He drew attention to himself. Did he intend to kill his own family and himself after lighting his home on fire, but either chickened out or the fire took off too soon and an alarm was called in before he finished? He obviously didn’t kill his family before starting the fire at his house if murder-suicide was the intent. Was gas poured around inside the house? Was his gas line cut? Lots of questions. I guess we will find out more on Wednesday.

 

[whitelilac]

Possible scenarios:

1. Paul killed Keith & family and set fire to both houses to look like both brothers were targeted.
2. Paul and Keith were both targets and Paul was lucky to escape (but why wasn't Paul's family attacked like Keith's was before the fire was set?)
3. Someone set up the crimes to look like Paul was responsible for them.

Any other possibilities?

jmo

4. Paul contracted someone to kill his brother and family. Same killer set fire to the home.
Paul set his own house on fire to make it look as though he too was targeted.
<modsnip - rumor>

 

[SandyQLS]

But he set the fires himself, so I think it’s less likely that he was in shock. Fear, maybe, but not because of his house fire. JMO

And the fire at his house was not extensive, and it was put down quickly. It was the fire at the deceased brother's house that was very damaging, started at 12:30pm and firefighters worked into the evening to extinguish it. Then it was too hot for investigators to enter until later.

 

[Tripod]

Possible scenarios:

1. Paul killed Keith & family and set fire to both houses to look like both brothers were targeted.
2. Paul and Keith were both targets and Paul was lucky to escape (but why wasn't Paul's family attacked like Keith's was before the fire was set?)
3. Someone set up the crimes to look like Paul was responsible for them.

Any other possibilities?

jmo

My current "take" is that PC set fire to his bro's home and his own, both timed, to provide himself with what he hoped would be an airtight alibi in their murders. I speculate that PC knew he would be a prime suspect in their deaths so came up with this plan. Regardless, he must have been very sloppy in order for LE to have found enough right off the bat to arrest him for his own home arson.

 

[Tripod]

I neglected to add that it makes sense to me that perhaps the neighbor who initially ran over to the Colt's Run home did find Keith just inside the burning home's front door and dragged him out to the driveway. I realize that's pure guesswork and info not officially known, but it just seems too nonsensical for the murderer to have killed and left KC's body outside the house, that anyone else could have seen, in broad daylight. ( especially if said murderer had gone to the trouble of rigging up a delayed arson )

 

[Inthedetails]

And the fire at his house was not extensive, and it was put down quickly. It was the fire at the deceased brother's house that was very damaging, started at 12:30pm and firefighters worked into the evening to extinguish it. Then it was too hot for investigators to enter until later.

Has it been determined that the fire at Keith's started at 12:30....or is that when the fire was noticed and reported?

jmo

 

[meanmaryjean]

Has it been determined that the fire at Keith's started at 12:30....or is that when the fire was noticed and reported?

jmo

Exactly! Remember the Richmond Hill explosion in Indianapolis- the perps set the explosion in motion and were long gone when it actually happened.

 

[Gone Girl]

Exactly! Remember the Richmond Hill explosion in Indianapolis- the perps set the explosion in motion and were long gone when it actually happened.

Wishful thinking here that this is not a Cain/Abel tragedy, but is it possible the brothers were targeted due to business dealings and PC got wind of it and attempted to set fire after the murders (by other perpetrators) to destroy evidence of nefarious business dealings or connections?

The police could still say there is no threat to the public if they know they were the only targets. I am having a hard time with PC’s lawyer not knowing what his clients job or business involves. That really stretches credulity. But if his lawyer doesn’t want to say perhaps it supports above theory. Could PC be turning state’s evidence against a bigger fish criminal enterprise? Again, wishful thinking.

 

[Angleterre]

There's a huge difference between "Wow- how much did you pay for THAT?" and "We're thinking of a similar deck- would you mind telling me ballpark what something like that would cost?"

My thoughts exactly

 

[Angleterre]

And, it's a huge difference when someone offers the amount of money paid. "Yeah, our new deck is done, and after spending $140K on it, we better use it!" or something like that.

Bragging about money spent is a clue, imo, of motive in this case. Just a hunch, not a fact.

jmo

Generally in the U.K. it’s said that those who need to tell you the price of something ie “Do you like my £500 shoes I got ?” Are generally the ones with insecurities about themselves and money as opposed to “ Do you like my £2 shoes that I got from the charity shop?”, even though they can afford the £500 shoes !!

 

[Angleterre]

Apologies if this has already been ruled out - but could the mafia be involved in some way? I'm as lost as everyone else is - not because PC and his kids and wife can't get the basics - but also because their GoFundMe only has $6K in it. People there are Very wealthy so it's interesting that they're not only not backing the family with a lot of $, but they're also not taking them in. Those houses are Massive. They don't have other family or friends there? Then again, maybe the person who wrote the didn't have all of the info, and hasn't updated it. But come on. "Even $1 helps"? That's just silly and dramatic in this situation imo. What a mess!!!

But, take away the facts and go back to the basics, it’s friebds of the daughters it would appear who have set up the ( correct me if I am wrong) and if that’s the case, they have probably done so on the back of what they are or have been told by PC’s daughters who have had a horrific experience and are possibly in a state of high agitation and anxiety right now so their story that they perpetuate to their friends is dramatic and ‘our lives have fell apart and we have NOTHING left ‘ maybe because that’s what they are being told by dad PC without really knowing the full facts of the situation. PC could be telling them that they cannot salvage belongings from inside the house because of XYZ... (insert you’re own reason here) and that they cannot access insurance because it’s a dual policy with his brother that’s been put on hold because of subsequent events... who knows ?
Or - it’s possible ( not probable at this moment with what’s known so far ) that PC is innocent and has been set up to look like the perpetrator???
Just because it looks like a duck and quacks life a duck and probably is a duck , doesn’t mean to say IT IS ACTUALLY A DUCK ....