NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #2

[dotr]

Close range?B******! Sorry, I just had to express that.So how can this person/s keep going on with their life and not be consumed with guilt and self-disgust and the need to unburden themselves to a confidante?Although there seems to have been several potential suspects,has there ever been the suspicion, that there was someone (like a serial killer) or a besotted or even jealous female classmate, who went completely under the radar for this?
Someone too drunk to be certain whether or not they participated and therefore not eaten by guilt?
One would hope that the whole of Carlsbad would rise up and demand the DNA results, besides with rapidly advancing technology,who knows what else can be gleaned from the evidence!

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Close range?B******! Sorry, I just had to express that.So how can this person/s keep going on with their life and not be consumed with guilt and self-disgust and the need to unburden themselves to a confidante?Although there seems to have been several potential suspects,has there ever been the suspicion, that there was someone (like a serial killer) or a besotted or even jealous female classmate, who went completely under the radar for this?
Someone too drunk to be certain whether or not they participated and therefore not eaten by guilt?
One would hope that the whole of Carlsbad would rise up and demand the DNA results, besides with rapidly advancing technology,who knows what else can be gleaned from the evidence!

Dotr... I've asked that same question over and over ...over the years...how could someone live with knowing who killed the girls and not come forward. But again there are so many people that aren't born with a conscience...so I guess that has to be the answer. I hope and pray each day that someone will come forward and share what they know....maybe even part of the information would help. I have asked several people that grew up with Patty and this one particular suspect to come forward and just tell what they know...but it hasn't happen yet. When the family member came forward...( the suspects family) and told the investigator the information they knew...it was pretty much pushed under the rug...especially after the investigator retired in 2004. I don't think the law enforcement agencies want to solve this case. That's just how I feel...I'm still waiting on an answer to my last question ...regarding if the VICAP Group has let them know how the case is going. Still no answer from the captain in charge.
I haven't ever been told anything about a female friend that might have killed the girls...but there were some others who thought maybe a female family member may have killed the girls...but I just can't see that myself. And I'm pretty sure they checked that out pretty good. But again who knows.
The person that was identified in the 2003 re-opened investigation is the person I believe that killed Mattie and Patty. But I don't think he did it alone.

 

[dotr]

Somehow, I also think this was done by more than one person ...although that would mean two or more people keeping quiet. Let's just say, if someone had a spouse involved, it might be easier to keep the secret until, there is a breakup or the spouse becomes afraid for themselves.Maybe time is an ally it some cases...

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Somehow, I also think this was done by more than one person ...although that would mean two or more people keeping quiet. Let's just say, if someone had a spouse involved, it might be easier to keep the secret until, there is a breakup or the spouse becomes afraid for themselves.Maybe time is an ally it some cases...

I just don't see how one person could keep two young, strong girls down by himself. Unless he killed Mattie right off. Then he molested Patty and then killed her...then he went and dropped the bodies off. I know Mattie would had fought ...and I don't see her just standing around while this sick person done what he did to Patty. He had to have killed one of them before the other. And if he didn't molest Mattie (like the sheriff's dept thinks) then he killed her first or he had someone hold her....just my thinking.
Oh... I think the ex-wife has already told the correct story. But to deaf ears now. I do believe this lady knew what she was talking about.
And I do hope someone finds out the truth in that family and does the right thing by Mattie and Patty. That is what I pray for everyday.

 

[dotr]

If the perp was intent on terrorizing Patty, a big part of that might include killing Mattie in front of her.

 

[justthinkin]

A possibility is that once the perp had them in his vehicle, he drove a short ways, knocked Mattie out, and put her in the trunk. That way he would only have one girl to worry about controlling. I got this idea from some other case I read about, and that is what that perp did.

If it was Patty he was interested in, then that's why it would be Mattie to go into the trunk and not Patty. Also, Sunshine says Mattie would have put up a fight so that's an additional reason to get her out of the way until he got where he was going.

 

[justthinkin]

Sunshine, which of the sightings of the girls that night do you think are good or do you think none of them are?

One thing's for sure. If a cop stopped, and offered the girls a ride home, they might take him up on that.

FYI, Sunshine, you need to read the cold case on here out of Illinois where the LE had been actively involved in a cover-up since 1948. The reason I say this, is so you can compare the runaround cops there gave the brother of the victim with the things you've had to deal with from ECSO.

In some ways, though the circumstances of the deaths and ages of victims are different, the hassle with the police sounds like your story, Sunshine. I'll post the link in a minute. You'll be directed to another website which holds all the info on the case and the battle to get to the bottom of the case. There you'll be asked for a password, and the password is Oldsmobile. Please do read this. I think I had you read it before, but the site has been updated with the outcome of the story. Everyone's dead, but it came down to a cop had done it, and he was a relative of the female victim, her uncle by marriage. Patty was younger than the girl in the Illinois story, but I'm not sure that matters at all. She was old enough to have gotten pregnant, and that could have been the reason she was killed as I believe you've thought all along. In that other case, the truth was covered up by the coroner, the entire sheriff's dept, and guess what? The cop who killed the couple was the one put in charge of the investigation. Can you believe that? It blows my mind to think that they knowingly put the murderer in charge of the investigation.

Be back in a sec.

I'll make it simple. Go to www.maryjanereed.com Click on the icon that reads investigative overview, enter the password, "oldsmobile" and you'll have a shortened version of the whole story. It's a fascinating read btw. Also compare the trouble your dad got from ECSO when he wanted to exhume Mattie with what happened when they did the exhumation in Illinois of the Reed girl.

Hope you've survived the cold. I guess you've still got snow on the ground?

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Sunshine, which of the sightings of the girls that night do you think are good or do you think none of them are?

One thing's for sure. If a cop stopped, and offered the girls a ride home, they might take him up on that.

FYI, Sunshine, you need to read the cold case on here out of Illinois where the LE had been actively involved in a cover-up since 1948. The reason I say this, is so you can compare the runaround cops there gave the brother of the victim with the things you've had to deal with from ECSO.

In some ways, though the circumstances of the deaths and ages of victims are different, the hassle with the police sounds like your story, Sunshine. I'll post the link in a minute. You'll be directed to another website which holds all the info on the case and the battle to get to the bottom of the case. There you'll be asked for a password, and the password is Oldsmobile. Please do read this. I think I had you read it before, but the site has been updated with the outcome of the story. Everyone's dead, but it came down to a cop had done it, and he was a relative of the female victim, her uncle by marriage. Patty was younger than the girl in the Illinois story, but I'm not sure that matters at all. She was old enough to have gotten pregnant, and that could have been the reason she was killed as I believe you've thought all along. In that other case, the truth was covered up by the coroner, the entire sheriff's dept, and guess what? The cop who killed the couple was the one put in charge of the investigation. Can you believe that? It blows my mind to think that they knowingly put the murderer in charge of the investigation.

Be back in a sec.

I'll make it simple. Go to www.maryjanereed.com Click on the icon that reads investigative overview, enter the password, "oldsmobile" and you'll have a shortened version of the whole story. It's a fascinating read btw. Also compare the trouble your dad got from ECSO when he wanted to exhume Mattie with what happened when they did the exhumation in Illinois of the Reed girl.

Hope you've survived the cold. I guess you've still got snow on the ground?

Thanks Justthinkin...I will read it today. I can believe anything about LE agencies. Still haven't gotten an answer from the captain of ECSO...guess he thinks I'll just go away!
There is still snow in some areas...but I'm surviving the cold ....just wish the RA would go away...it could be worse...so guess I'm stop complaining! Hope you are doing well.
So good to hear from you.
I will read this today.

 

[dotr]

Sometimes I wonder if in some cases where the DNA results are suppressed,it is to hide a relatively(compared to murder) small secret, like an adoption or questionable paternity,or even cases of incest which resulted in a pregnancy.

Justthinkin, wow that story does share some commonalty with Mattie and Pattys' story.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Thanks Justthinkin...I will read it today. I can believe anything about LE agencies. Still haven't gotten an answer from the captain of ECSO...guess he thinks I'll just go away!
There is still snow in some areas...but I'm surviving the cold ....just wish the RA would go away...it could be worse...so guess I'm stop complaining! Hope you are doing well.
So good to hear from you.
I will read this today.

Thanks for having me go back and read that unsolved murder case again. It amazes me that they weren't allowed to follow through on that case and get it solved. But then ...it doesn't surprise me when they are trying to keep secrets hidden when it comes to the law enforcement agencies...just because the suspects are dead doesn't mean they shouldn't give the families the closure they need. A killer is a killer doesn't matter if he is dead or alive.

Another thing that bothers me about the Mary Jane Reed case is....who's head is that...if it doesn't belong to Mary Jane? Was another young lady killed to get the head....or did the exchange it with someone else's...they should have information on the bodies that were in that funeral home at the time of Mary Jane's death. Strange.

Did they ever give the LE officers name?

I'm so discussed with how things have turned out in Mattie and Patty's unsolved murder case. The ECSO has all but ignored anything I ask...not one word about the question about how the VICAP GROUP is doing on the case.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

A possibility is that once the perp had them in his vehicle, he drove a short ways, knocked Mattie out, and put her in the trunk. That way he would only have one girl to worry about controlling. I got this idea from some other case I read about, and that is what that perp did.

If it was Patty he was interested in, then that's why it would be Mattie to go into the trunk and not Patty. Also, Sunshine says Mattie would have put up a fight so that's an additional reason to get her out of the way until he got where he was going.

You might be right. According to the old investigative reports and what they told my parents...Mattie had been hit in the head. She had a huge place on top of her head where it appeared she had been knocked out. But the LE denied that later on. McGrew told my mom that Mattie would probably died from that hit on the head ....but she was shot anyway. So you might have something here.

You asked me where I thought the girls were picked up. I still think they were picked up on Church St. Several individuals saw them that evening while they were walking to the beach area and then when they were on their way home.
I do know when we walked to the beach area with my mother we always walked up Church St. and then back down the same way home. Most everyone walked on Church St. back then. The ECSO really believes they were picked up on Church St as well...but they don't want to talk about it with me. So they don't answer my questions regarding that information. One gal...this GLG person I asked about earlier on in websleuths said she saw they on Church St that night getting in a car with a man...but that is about all I've learned. She named a person...I told the ECSO about this informaiton...but again I don't know if they have questioned anyone about it.
So I do believe Church St. is where they were picked up.

 

[dotr]

Is the Vicap group mentioned here, the same as this group of pros who meet to solve crime?
http://www.vidocq.org/
An unusual, exclusive crime-solving organization that meets monthly at the Union League of Philadelphia, 140 South Broad St., in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Members of The Vidocq Society honor Eugène François Vidocq, the brilliant 18th century French detective who served the Sûreté, by applying their collective forensic skills and experience to "cold case" homicides and unsolved deaths. At Vidocq meetings Vidocq Society Members (V.S.M.'s) evaluate, investigate, refocus, revivify and solve the unsolved deaths officially brought to them.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Is the Vicap group mentioned here, the same as this group of pros who meet to solve crime?
http://www.vidocq.org/
An unusual, exclusive crime-solving organization that meets monthly at the Union League of Philadelphia, 140 South Broad St., in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Members of The Vidocq Society honor Eugène François Vidocq, the brilliant 18th century French detective who served the Sûreté, by applying their collective forensic skills and experience to "cold case" homicides and unsolved deaths. At Vidocq meetings Vidocq Society Members (V.S.M.'s) evaluate, investigate, refocus, revivify and solve the unsolved deaths officially brought to them.

No this is not the same as the VICAP Group. VICAP is a group of people that are FBI members...
This group collects and analyzes information about homicides, sexual assaults, missing persons, and other violent crimes involving unidentified human remains. This database compares information in an attempt to identify similar cases and help move investigations forward. www.fbi.gov
I am familiar with the Vidocq Society...but this has to be presented to them by a law enforcement agency...just like the VICAP Group.
The victims families can not get information from these groups without the help of the law enforcement agency that presented the cases for review. That is where I'm a with my sisters case. The Eddy County Sheriff's Department sent this case back to the VICAP Group...this past year...and we as Mattie's family have not been told anything.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

No this is not the same as the VICAP Group. VICAP is a group of people that are FBI members...
This group collects and analyzes information about homicides, sexual assaults, missing persons, and other violent crimes involving unidentified human remains. This database compares information in an attempt to identify similar cases and help move investigations forward. www.fbi.gov
I am familiar with the Vidocq Society...but this has to be presented to them by a law enforcement agency...just like the VICAP Group.
The victims families can not get information from these groups without the help of the law enforcement agency that presented the cases for review. That is where I'm a with my sisters case. The Eddy County Sheriff's Department sent this case back to the VICAP Group...this past year...and we as Mattie's family have not been told anything.

Bumping for Mattie Catherine Restine & Patty Sue Prit'z Unsolved Murder Case to be solved.

Still waiting on that answer Capt. Zuniga....please let our family know something.

 

[sassymomtx]

Sunshine,

I read the Carlsbad Current Argus obits just about three hours ago, and noticed a posting for the death of Artell Blair!! Just wondering if this person is the one of interest in this case

Thoughts and prayers are with you always

 

[dotr]

Sunshine,

I read the Carlsbad Current Argus obits just about three hours ago, and noticed a posting for the death of Artell Blair!! Just wondering if this person is the one of interest in this case

Thoughts and prayers are with you always

Thought I would throw a link in. Now to double check on that suggested connection.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/cu...x?n=artell-estell-blair-loggins&pid=148851225

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Sunshine,

I read the Carlsbad Current Argus obits just about three hours ago, and noticed a posting for the death of Artell Blair!! Just wondering if this person is the one of interest in this case

Thoughts and prayers are with you always

Yes. Thanks for letting me know. I just don't know what to say here.. Sorry.

 

[justthinkin]

Thanks for having me go back and read that unsolved murder case again. It amazes me that they weren't allowed to follow through on that case and get it solved. But then ...it doesn't surprise me when they are trying to keep secrets hidden when it comes to the law enforcement agencies...just because the suspects are dead doesn't mean they shouldn't give the families the closure they need. A killer is a killer doesn't matter if he is dead or alive.

Another thing that bothers me about the Mary Jane Reed case is....who's head is that...if it doesn't belong to Mary Jane? Was another young lady killed to get the head....or did the exchange it with someone else's...they should have information on the bodies that were in that funeral home at the time of Mary Jane's death. Strange.

Did they ever give the LE officers name?

I'm so discussed with how things have turned out in Mattie and Patty's unsolved murder case. The ECSO has all but ignored anything I ask...not one word about the question about how the VICAP GROUP is doing on the case.

Well the brother and the other guy did solve that murder case, not that the LE office would honor that since it was one of their own who committed the crime.

Did you get a look at the list of charges that could be brought against that police department? LENGTHY!

Just guessing, but I'll bet that skull belonged to an indigent, and instead of burying the person intact, they kept the skull or else dug it up out of a potter's field connected with the funeral home.

I am sick about Mattie and Patty's case too. There's just something going on with ECSO that is really puzzling in light of that Reed case. Might offer some insight into the behavior of ECSO IMO.

IIRC, in both cases some poor dimwit was brought in as a suspect before being dismissed as preposterous. I know that's true for your case, Sunshine, but can't recall if that was also true in that other case.

It just amazes me that not one detective has ever made it his life's work to find the killer/s of Mattie and Patty. There are fine detectives elsewhere that have done so with other cases. I guess as close as this case has ever come to having someone like that is Titus, and yet, something always bothered me about him holding things back from you. It sure didn't speak to sincerity.

Patty's family should have her exhumed. Call in an outside ME that is working for them, and have another autopsy done. See how much flack they get from ECSO over that. That might prove interesting! And have a judge order ECSO to participate only as onlookers, not allowed to actually touch the remains in any way, same with the funeral home that originally handled the remains.

 

[dotr]

I wondered if you had a favorite picture of your sister that could be posted, also would love for people to know what kind of kid she was and the things she liked to do..before the cold-blooded murderer(s)took it all away?!

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I wondered if you had a favorite picture of your sister that could be posted, also would love for people to know what kind of kid she was and the things she liked to do..before the cold-blooded murderer(s)took it all away?!

Oh... I have many wonderful pictures of Mattie..but the most beautiful memories I have of her are in my heart. I posted some pictures on here before...Thanks for asking dotr.
Just because this individual has died....doesn't mean I will ever give up on finding out who killed my sister....