No English Required

[windovervocalcords]

Who said I was talking about you for one thing? I never said any names and from here that's what it looks like people are doing to the posters who want immigrints to learn english. Sorry, but thats the view I have from here.

I give up.

We do not understand each other.

 

[2sisters]

Details posted a response to me. You posted a response to her. That's how I come to that view that you are referring to my post.

I didn't mention names b/c there is more than one person doing it and like I said from where I sit thats the impression I got from all of this. Sorry if I offended you, I am just calling how I am seeing it. :truce:

 

[windovervocalcords]

I didn't mention names b/c there is more than one person doing it and like I said from where I sit thats the impression I got from all of this. Sorry if I offended you, I am just calling how I am seeing it. :truce:

More than one person doing what? Deliberately twisting in order to discredit other posters?.

How would anyone not feel offended if you question their motives beyond simply trying to increase understanding or express their own views?.

Then to lump a whole group of posters together.

I will do my best to not practice that myself. Its all I have control over.

I do not fault you personally. But that kind of post is inflammatory IMO.

 

[cappuccina]

....actual stats...

One or two people refusing to learn English does not a crisis make...

Tell ya' what, all of you linguists out there...we'll drop you off in rural China and see how long it takes you to learn a Chinese dialect...LOL...let alone reading and writing in Chinese...

So, if you mastered 75% of the Chinese you were supposed to be learning, you'd be doing pretty damn well...

Of course it's easy to criticize how long it takes people to learn English, considering it's pretty easy for y'all and the only language you know... :doh:

 

[2sisters]

More than one person doing what? Deliberately twisting in order to discredit other posters?.

How would anyone not feel offended if you question their motives beyond simply trying to increase understanding or express their own views?.

Then to lump a whole group of posters together.

I will do my best to not practice that myself. Its all I have control over.

I do not fault you personally. But that kind of post is inflammatory IMO.

It was just a statement I made about my opinion, go back and look for yourself at what i am refering to. I apologized to you once for offending you, what else can I do?

 

[2sisters]

....actual stats...

One or two people refusing to learn English does not a crisis make...

Tell ya' what, all of you linguists out there...we'll drop you off in rural China and see how long it takes you to learn a Chinese dialect...LOL...let alone reading and writing in Chinese...

So, if you mastered 75% of the Chinese you were supposed to be learning, you'd be doing pretty damn well...

Of course it's easy to criticize how long it takes people to learn English, considering it's pretty easy for y'all and the only language you know... :doh:

I think I said that English is a hard language to learn as a second language. I could care less what they learn to do personally, as I said, not learing the language puts them at a disadvantage, not me.

 

[Marstan]

There are many many people who move to the US, legally and illegally, who learn to communicate in English. On the same token, there are many, many people who move to the US, legally and illegally, and do not find the need nor desire to communicate in English.

My kids go to school with kids whose parents have never learned English and they have been here for over 25 years. Are they lazy (because they were not old when they came to the US they were teenagers)? Why do they refuse to speak English? It is one thing if they cannot learn it, it happens to all of us and would happen to most of us alone in a foreign country. But if we illegally moved into the country because our lives would be better, would it not make sense that learning the language so you can communicate would make sense also?

By the way, in order for our 4-H group to "exchange students" for six weeks in the summer with Japan, the US kids must take Japanese for at least a year in school. That is really a fun thing to do since we do not teach that language in our schools, but we have kids that go each year. I wonder why? Did they make the effort to learn the language? Well yes they did and by the time they stayed for six weeks with no one to speak English to, they learned more Japanese.

This is such a tricky topic because the more I think about it, the more I realize that if I were deaf and dumb and was going through security at the airport, it may be very hard to communicate, unless the worker knew sign language. However, it would probably be even worse if the worker was not speaking or signing in English.

I better leave before I get into trouble.

 

[Karole28]

What do you call the people in the south who still put up a confederate flag?

Why would you insult a great portion of the US to make a weak point?

 

[2sisters]

Why would you insult a great portion of the US to make a weak point?

To some people in the south, the confederate flag is their heritage. There is a group called brothers of the confederacy that alot of my husbands family belongs to and they are not racist. They just feel like they are celebrating their heratige. Of course many think that makes confederate flag guys dumb, rednecks but not all of them are. Some use the flag for hate and those are the ones who stick out, but alot don't.

 

[Nova]

If we're going to talk about who "owns" symbols of the past (including the Confederate flags), maybe we'd better start a new thread.

 

[Nova]

On the same token, there are many, many people who move to the US, legally and illegally, and do not find the need nor desire to communicate in English.

Once again: how do you know this?

 

[julianne]

To some people in the south, the confederate flag is their heritage. There is a group called brothers of the confederacy that alot of my husbands family belongs to and they are not racist. They just feel like they are celebrating their heratige. Of course many think that makes confederate flag guys dumb, rednecks but not all of them are. Some use the flag for hate and those are the ones who stick out, but alot don't.

Well, to me & the majority of people I know, the confederate flag is a symbol of white supremacy, for lack of a better term. And you are right about the perception of dumb, redneck guys who use the confederate flag....many people think that. The confederate flag came to be because the the south wanted to maintain control over Blacks and the south wanted to keep them as slaves, so they "broke away" from the northern states and made their own flag, and even called themselves the Confederate States of America, or something like that. They wanted to keep Blacks as slaves and have Blacks spend their lives serving the white man. Many people consider the confederate flag ANTI-American, because it was born out of those Southern states who "separated" from the US in an effort to show that they were going to do what they wanted, and what they wanted to do was to keep Blacks as slaves and indentured servants to them.

So, yeah, in a way I guess it IS heritage....just not one that I would be proud of. IMO.

 

[Pepper]

Once again: how do you know this?

OK, what assumptions would you make when there are people here who have lived here continuously for 20+ years (are 40-something years of age now) and cannot communicate a word of English? Are they illiterate? No, because they can read and write in Spanish. They have jobs working for a company that doesn't mind that their only language is Spanish, since the owners are bilingual.

The issue is they come here because they have family and friends who have arrived before them. They settle into neighborhoods of other Spanish-speaking immigrants, because that is their comfort level. I remember in the 1960's we called it de-facto segregation, and the object was to break up the barios and the Korea-towns, and stir them into the big melting pot. That was unrealistic because people like to hang with their own kind. That is a fact of life.

But, by isolating themselves into their own Spanish-speaking neighborhoods, they rarely leave their community. Spanish speaking businesses spring up. They buy groceries at the Spanish grocery, go to the Spanish landromat, get their checks cashed at the Spanish liquor store, and go to the Spanish dentist. When everything springs up around them to provide all their needs, there is no reason to venture into the English community.

 

[2sisters]

Well, to me & the majority of people I know, the confederate flag is a symbol of white supremacy, for lack of a better term. And you are right about the perception of dumb, redneck guys who use the confederate flag....many people think that. The confederate flag came to be because the the south wanted to maintain control over Blacks and the south wanted to keep them as slaves, so they "broke away" from the northern states and made their own flag, and even called themselves the Confederate States of America, or something like that. They wanted to keep Blacks as slaves and have Blacks spend their lives serving the white man. Many people consider the confederate flag ANTI-American, because it was born out of those Southern states who "separated" from the US in an effort to show that they were going to do what they wanted, and what they wanted to do was to keep Blacks as slaves and indentured servants to them.

So, yeah, in a way I guess it IS heritage....just not one that I would be proud of. IMO.

I don't wave the flag, just from what I see there are misconceptions about it. No need for everyone to attack me at once here. Not everyone who uses it is full of hate for blacks or racist. My inlaws aren't I can tell you that for a fact. My husband is not and was raised by those people ( he is not in the brothers before you ask) They have ancestors that fought in the war and feel proud of it. They weren't slave owners, they were people who thought it was their duty to fight.I am so tired of getting attacked on here for saying something. I have the right to post anything just like you.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I don't wave the flag, just from what I see there are misconceptions about it. No need for everyone to attack me at once here. Not everyone who uses it is full of hate for blacks or racist. My inlaws aren't I can tell you that for a fact. My husband is not and was raised by those people ( he is not in the brothers before you ask) They have ancestors that fought in the war and feel proud of it. They weren't slave owners, they were people who thought it was their duty to fight.I am so tired of getting attacked on here for saying something. I have the right to post anything just like you.

Hello,

This is not an attack. But it does contain several points within it.

The point of my question was to mimic the tone of the post that stated "what do you think of immigrants who fly the flag of their native land in America? Is that not open to interpretation?

IMO it's a statement that while we are all Americans we come from many differeent lands. Here's my Mexico roots. Here is the flag of my native land. I am not ashamed to be Mexican American. I am not afraid to declare my love of my original home even while I embrace my new home. I am not afraid you will kick me out of the country.

I think people who fly the confederate flag do so to make a cultural and political statement. To me, that statement is "I may be American, but I haven't forgotten my southern confederacy roots."

My reference to the Phillie Steak guy who is Italian and not from the south is that he is obviously using the confederate flag symbol as a racist or divisive statement IMO He is borrowing the confederate flag to make it a symbol more in line with white supremacy or in his case English Only supremacy. He does not like it that so many hispanics have moved to his neighborhood.

 

[2sisters]

Hello,

This is not an attack. But it does contain several points within it.

The point of my question was to mimic the tone of the post that stated "what do you think of immigrants who fly the flag of their native land in America. It's a statement that while we are all Americans we come from many differeent lands. Here's my Mexico roots.

I think people who fly the confederate flag do so to make a cultural and political statement. To me, that statement is "I may be American, but I haven't forgotten my southern confederacy roots."

My reference to the Phillie Steak guy who is Italian and not from the south is that he is obviously using the confederate flag symbol as a racist or divisive statement IMO.

It is fine for people from other counties to fly thier flags and be proud. I know people fly thier confederate flags out of racism and hate, I know that. Not all do though. I don't want it flying in my yard b/c I don't agree with it and they lost the war. i just know it doesn't all stem from hate and I was afraid Julianne though maybe I was racist or something so i got on the defensive.

 

[Details]

Perhaps we misunderstand each other on what we consider to be a "myth". I do not consider "myth" to have no basis in fact. I consider myth to be exaggeration.

I have not called anyone a liar here. I do not appreciate you characterizing my posts as saying so.

If that's your personal definition of myth - then perhaps not. But - I just checked the dictionary to be sure - and there's no definition of myth that I see that is an exaggeration. So I'm afraid you're using that word wrong.

myth [ mith ] (plural myths)Definition: 1. ancient story: a traditional story about heroes or supernatural beings, often attempting to explain the origins of natural phenomena or aspects of human behavior

2. myths collectively: myths considered as a group or as a genre

3. idealized conception: a set of often idealized or glamorized ideas and stories surrounding a particular phenomenon, concept, or famous person

the myth of the new man

4. false belief: a widely held but mistaken belief

exploding some of the myths about dieting

5. fictitious person or thing: somebody who or something that is fictitious or nonexistent, but whose existence is widely believed in

The loving wife turned out to be a myth.

From http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861632231

 

[windovervocalcords]

It is fine for people from other counties to fly thier flags and be proud. I know people fly thier confederate flags out of racism and hate, I know that. Not all do though. I don't want it flying in my yard b/c I don't agree with it and they lost the war. i just know it doesn't all stem from hate and I was afraid Julianne though maybe I was racist or something so i got on the defensive.

We are all full of biases. I clearly have mine. I am biased in favor of the underdog, the minority.

It does not bother me that people have biases and that we disagree about many things.

I appreciate it when posters explain the context for their posts as you just did 2 sisters. Helps me get to know you better and that always increases understanding and a feeling of "we're all in this together."

 

[2sisters]

By the way Wind, check your PM box.
Which immigrints don't learn English? Is it only illegals? Are there any programs in places with a large immigrant population that help people learn the language? It seems like if you want to be a success in this country then it is best if you knew English. It isn't a requirement of course but it would make life alot easier for them and the people who come in contact with them.

 

[windovervocalcords]

By the way Wind, check your PM box.
Which immigrints don't learn English? Is it only illegals? Are there any programs in places with a large immigrant population that help people learn the language? It seems like if you want to be a success in this country then it is best if you knew English. It isn't a requirement of course but it would make life alot easier for them and the people who come in contact with them.

I know one group of immigrants that don't learn the language and that is usually the elders.

And it is often true that bilingual folks feel more comfortable speaking in their native language especially at home or within their families or in their neighborhoods. It's an ease and a comfort level.

I have a dear friend from Bhutan. He speaks several languages fluently including english although many of my friends do not understand his english. I understand him quite well. I know NO bhutanese.

He is so kind. He is always being mispercieved as to his race and ethnic background and he just laughs it off. In fact, he is so light hearted, he does not care what people call him.

He needs my help with written english. He does not read english very well. He is quite a learned scholar in his own language and several others. He understands english well. He speaks it fairly well IMO

It is my great joy to help him. English is apparently very limited. He teaches a number of very advanced topics that I am interested in and there are many concepts that have no english word equivalent.