No English Required

[txsvicki]

Well I am Mexican and I dont speak spanish other then a few words and I would like for the immigrants coming from the south to learn English if they want to be living and working here in America..I think it is our right as AMERICAN BORN CITIZENS that others coming to our country to live and work to at least make an effort to learn how to communucate with us..My grandparents and aunts and uncles who came from Mexico ALL made an effort to learn English.

IMHO!!!

I've known many Hispanics here who can't speak Spanish and I've taken 4 semesters of it in college awhile back and can read it but not put it together to speak. I'd like one of my grandkids who is part Hispanic to speak both English and Spanish but no one who can speak it is around enough. Any doctors or nurses who work on me better be able to speak my language of English though or they won't be touching me.

 

[cappuccina]

...more specifically...

Any doctors or nurses who work on me better be able to speak my language of English though or they won't be touching me.

...reminds me of...

"Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan"... but hey...

 

[Pepper]

...studies done by prestigious universities and research orgs....

As they say in Wisconsin..."Yah, sure, YouBetcha!:

Assumming your stats are correct, they take all 50 states as a whole. I can guarantee you that those stats are not correct for California, Arizona, New Mexico or Texas when you isolate those border states from the other 46.

I took statistics in college, and I can also guarantee you that you can manipulate the data to reflect your personal bias depending on how that data is presented.

So yup, your statistics mean squat to me. And if you live in Wisconsin you really have no clue about the give vs. take situation here.

You want some California statistics? How's this:

From the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish. (There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).

(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , nd New York ) results from immigration.

The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was, (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION/year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University ]. The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number.

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

 

[cappuccina]

...says herself about her own emotional statements: "Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis..."

This is where you got this stuff from (see link below): It's journalistic conjecture, nothing more...Emotional "discharge" with little factual basis...

http://www.city-journal.org/html/about_cj.html

Oh, and "City Journal" is a part of this fabulous organization:

"The Manhattan Institute was proud to host Vice President Dick Cheney who delivered a major policy address on Iraq and the War on Terror. The full text of his remarks are available on the White House website.
The Vice President began his remarks with a generous compliment for the Manhattan Institute: "This is a place of tremendous creativity, of original thinking, and of intellectual rigor. The scholars of the Manhattan Institute have shown, time and again, the power of good ideas to shape public policy and to have an impact on the lives of people here in New York and across the nation. You have made enormous contributions to the betterment of the city and the policy debate nationwide. The Manhattan Institute is greatly admired in the country, and rightly so. I congratulate you for building such a fine reputation, and for maintaining it over the years.""

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/about_mi.htm

:hand:

 

[reb]

cappacina- "most americans are spoiled, and won't do the jobs that immigrnats will do".. if i hear that from another american one more time i swear i will throw up. that's a neocon lie if i ever heard one. yeah, that's right-- they will do those jobs, for minimum wage-- OR BELOW MINIMUM WAGE-- for cash (no paper trail), with no contracts, no applications, no benefits, no labor laws protecting them, no weekends off... ooooooooh.. they're such hard workers. yeah, no sh*t. they are also taking away jobs that legal american citizens (which, hello--- includes other hispanics!!!!!!!) WANT to do, and SHOULD BE ABLE to do, and get paid A LIVING WAGE for... and they should be protected by our american labor laws-- does anybody remember those??? but the business owners are too greedy and too cheap-- to hire people legally. also you have to remember many of these illegal workers live 10 or 15 people to a house, and don't pay car insurance, etc..... this is how they are able to get by working for slave wages... living in ways that are way below what most of us would consider a basic quality standard of living. WHO is it you're protecting here?? why are you defending the greedy business owners who depend on this slave economy to get ahead, and keep encouraging this endless hemorrhage of illegals by continuing to hire them???

 

[cappuccina]

...at McDonald's and cleaning hotel rooms are not being paid in cash, and they are paid at or above minimum wage, working for legitimate restaurants, hotels, and construction businesses that pay their workers properly. I guarantee there are more Polish and Eastern European immigrants in my area doing any of these jobs than there are high school students.

I am not defending businesses who do things illegally. Rather, I am stating a fact that most immigrants working menial jobs are working in low paying jobs at legitimate businesses.

You can't even get high school students to babysit here, let alone clean hotel rooms...*turns into Valley Girl for a brief moment*..."I mean, ewwwww, who'd want to do thaaat?"

 

[reb]

you mean, high school girls are not babysitting anymore?? when did that start? i do certainly agree with you that today's young people are far too spoiled... but stupid materialistic parents- and too much stuff too soon- has everything to do with that...

 

[Pepper]

Trust me, I've never heard of City Journal before seeing your link. And if you think the LA Times is a right wing tabloid, then I know you aren't from around here (California)!

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

Any volunteers for paying my share of the financial impact? It will cost you a mere $1,183, which is probably more like $1,400 if inflation and other increased costs since 2004 are considered.

 

[Pandora]

While teaching school in NE GA, my Central/South American students (most were Mexican, but some were Guatamalan/SA Indian/etc.) worked very hard to learn English. Their parents, unfortunately, relied on their children to translate. I was expected to learn Spanish to communicate with them. (I did it because I felt it MORE important to be able to talk w/ parents about their children than because it was required.)
Now I'm living in central PA, which has fewer Central/South Americans, but they are still around. When I speak to them in their own language--which they have been speaking to each other--they are startled, pleased, but state that they prefer to speak English.
I think the "willingness" to learn English is regional in some cases--at least this seems to be my experience. Where there are larger Central/South American populations, the people become more insulalted and don't feel the pressure to learn English. Where there are smaller Central/South American populations, the people feel the need and pressure to learn English because of the lack of social/business opportunities.
Make sense?
JMHO

 

[Mygirlsadie]

Pepper I agree...and I live in Germany and as an American I can't work for the Germans. As for driving I can drive on their roads but only after I took their driving test..which was no joke..their road signs were all in German and you either name the sign and what it means or you fail the test. There is no english translation. You either learn the German way here or you suffer its your choice. Foreigners coming to America just don't know how good they got it. (I really miss the USA though lol) :crazy:

It certainly should be! I would never think of taking up residence in Mexico or France or Germany, AND EXPECTING EMPLOYMENT THERE without first learning their language! Nor would I expect to vote or drive on their roads without first EARNING THAT PRIVILEGE by learning their language fluently.

We should demand the same in our country.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

Pandora my husbands family comes from Ecuador and they moved to Allentown PA back in the 80's...Well my husband left joined the army became a US citizen. His family on the other hand...love them to death but his parents still don't speak english and rely on all their children to speak for them. Go to the banks with them the doctors the post office everything. His parents even told me that I need to learn Spanish fluently so we can have a better relationship.

While teaching school in NE GA, my Central/South American students (most were Mexican, but some were Guatamalan/SA Indian/etc.) worked very hard to learn English. Their parents, unfortunately, relied on their children to translate. I was expected to learn Spanish to communicate with them. (I did it because I felt it MORE important to be able to talk w/ parents about their children than because it was required.)
Now I'm living in central PA, which has fewer Central/South Americans, but they are still around. When I speak to them in their own language--which they have been speaking to each other--they are startled, pleased, but state that they prefer to speak English.
I think the "willingness" to learn English is regional in some cases--at least this seems to be my experience. Where there are larger Central/South American populations, the people become more insulalted and don't feel the pressure to learn English. Where there are smaller Central/South American populations, the people feel the need and pressure to learn English because of the lack of social/business opportunities.
Make sense?
JMHO

 

[cappuccina]

...who tutors math. He was born in Mexico, and came to the US when he was 10 or so. He speaks three languages fluently, is a retired mechanical engineer and an ex-Marine, with a Master's degree in mechanical engineering, and now spends 20+ hours a week tutoring elementary school kids in math for free. I don't know what cartoon stereotypes you people are tuning into, but this is the Mexican grandpa in my world...

 

[Marstan]

One thing being overlooked or not commented on is the cost of education for the children from other countries here illegally. The vast majority of the parents of these children do not and will not learn English. They don't have to! Thus it is not deemed necessary. They do not even need to speak English to get welfare, free education, housing and health care. We give scholarships to illegal aliens! We are such a generous country - why are we slammed so much?

Many of us are tired of going to the schools and seeing teachers who are needed that can speak Spanish in order to translate to parents of these young students. The children want to learn English, they want to be smart but when they get home and need help on their homework, they cannot depend on their own parents to help them the majority of the time. How can you reinforce learning skills if you do not practice them yourself? Please don't get me wrong, we have many smart illegals who attend school. The majority of these students have parents who speak English.

When someone comes over to the US on a "work pass" - they pay taxes. However, they do not pay property taxes which helps pay for schools and teachers and books. As they go to the fields, the children are dropped off at schools and are there to attend - tuition free.

I can't even tell you the costs of the medical care here in our little border town. Our vital statistics here for births to single Hispanic females is enormous, many teenagers. They come across the border, go to the park which is in the vacinity of the hospital and once they go into labor, they walk into the hospital emergency room. Boom, there goes American tax dollars for the birth of the child. Boom, there goes American tax dollars for the welfare, food stamps, medical care, etc. for these newborn American children (with illegal parents), and, boom people begin resenting those that come over and refuse to learn the English language.

Is it really too much to ask that if they receive our benefits, that they also speak English?

I think you have to live in the border areas to see some of this - I don't know - does Canada not require people coming into their country to go through customs, etc., at their borders? Why yes they do! Do they give illegals free medical care in Canada? I don't know - oh, wait, medical care is free in Canada - but it can take you years to get a necessary surgery - that's why so many Canadians come to the SW and get their surgeries here (yes, most pay for it) but they know they will be treated in a timely manner. Perhaps that is why we have so many illegals in the US and not Canada.

This is JMOO and experience. Once you feel the effects "personally" it tends to make you a little more skeptic about the situation.

 

[2sisters]

Ths sad thing is, it would benefit them to learn the language. Anyone who lives in Katrina area right now can tell you that Mexicans are pawns of the construction industry right now. Can't speak a word of English, their bosses charge an arm and a leg for work and pay the Mexican workers next to nothing.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Ths sad thing is, it would benefit them to learn the language. Anyone who lives in Katrina area right now can tell you that Mexicans are pawns of the construction industry right now. Can't speak a word of English, their bosses charge an arm and a leg for work and pay the Mexican workers next to nothing.

The sad and true thing is that it takes time to learn the language. Try moving to some place where english is spoken by relatively few. Believe me you are movtivated to learn the dominant language ASAP.

Otherwise everyone will exploit you including those who speak your language and their language for you.

Its a myth that people are sitting around ARROGANTLY refusing to learn english.

ENGLISH ONLY This one-act play explores the challenges of biculturalism in America, specifically addressing the issues of Hispanic American culture through the lives of two brothers who see their Latin American culture in diametrically different ways. They struggle to come to terms with each other, their relationships, with racism, and their individual identities in the American community. The performance is followed by a facilitated discussion led by the actors.​

http://www.chapmyn.com/English%20Only.htm​

 

[Pepper]

...who tutors math. He was born in Mexico, and came to the US when he was 10 or so. He speaks three languages fluently, is a retired mechanical engineer and an ex-Marine, with a Master's degree in mechanical engineering, and now spends 20+ hours a week tutoring elementary school kids in math for free. I don't know what cartoon stereotypes you people are tuning into, but this is the Mexican grandpa in my world...

Obviously he is here LEGALLY and he is a shining example of the immigrants who have greatly contributed to our culture and economy.

The midwest doesn't have the illegal immigration problems of the border states, especially California. I see it and I live it daily.

 

[2sisters]

The sad and true thing is that it takes time to learn the language. Try moving to some place where english is spoken by relatively few. Believe me you are movtivated to learn the dominant language ASAP.

Otherwise everyone will exploit you including those who speak your language and their language for you.

Its a myth that people are sitting around ARROGANTLY refusing to learn english.

ENGLISH ONLY This one-act play explores the challenges of biculturalism in America, specifically addressing the issues of Hispanic American culture through the lives of two brothers who see their Latin American culture in diametrically different ways. They struggle to come to terms with each other, their relationships, with racism, and their individual identities in the American community. The performance is followed by a facilitated discussion led by the actors.​

http://www.chapmyn.com/English%20Only.htm​

I didn't say they were arrogantly not learning the language, English is supposedly one of the hardest languages to learn for what I hear. Quite frankly, if they don't want to learn, that's their business. It will only make life that much harder for them here in the states and will pretty much guarantee they will clean your house and do construction work forever at slave wages.

 

[Pepper]

You are so right 2sisters. And raising the minimum wage will not improve the economic conditions of those at the bottom of the wage ladder. In our business we pay our employees above the minimum wage. No payment under the table. It is all done with proper payroll deductions, but here is how it works. If we give a worker a $1 per hr. raise, that worker only sees $.90 of it, assuming he/she has no federal or state taxes withheld. The missing $.10 is due to Social Security, Medicare, State Disability Insurance.

But it costs the employer (us) $1.50 for that $1 per hr. raise. That is because the employer also pays Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment insurance - AND we pay 40% of the pretax employee payroll to Worker's Compensation Insurance - that is $.40 of every pretax dollar earned by each worker.

The inevitable result is every time the government mandates a raise in the minimum wage, inflation happens. McDonald's raises the price of their burgers, housing costs increase, landscaping costs increase, and so on....

 

[2sisters]

My question is, if illegals are paid under the table with no social security taken out etc. where will they be at retirement age? Will they be able to recieve medicare or SSI? Or will they just keep cleaning houses until they drop dead of old age?

 

[Nova]

Nope, disagree with you here Nova. Learning a language does not take years. Most could get by in a matter of months. I was in Germany for a month once, and was amazed at how much I picked up. If I'd been immersed, I would have learned decent conversational German in less than 6 months.

My husband's mother was German, born in Germany but immigrated at a very young age. His grandparents immigrated as adults. They spoke German and English fluently. My grandparents were Norwegian immigrants. All spoke English and had jobs where speaking English was required to get by.

English is the universal language of airline pilots. English is the universal language of foreign trade - INCOTERMS.

I greatly admire people who are multi-lingual, and I certainly wish I were fluent in several languages. But I absolutely believe that anyone coming into this country expecting employment and citizenship should learn English.

Pepper, I agree with your last statement, but I think you underestimate the time needed to become fluent. Yes, I too have traveled in Europe and spoke French and (particularly) Spanish as needed. But I wasn't a security worker and we can't poll the native to whom I spoke and ask whether my language skills were adequate for THEIR needs. The same is true of your sojourn in Germany.

Historically, the pattern is as it is with my in-laws. The first generation does the best it can, the second is fluent with an accent, and the third speaks English, usually exclusively.

If your relatives were different, good on them. Maybe they were exceptional, but how much education did they have BEFORE they arrived? Many people in Norway and Germany learn English in school.

Again, I'm not saying immigrants don't have to try. I'm saying that when others complain about their lack of fluency, they ought to consider the difficulty of the task.