No governmental support for RDI.

[BBB167893]

Can I just call you Mr. Spinit? LOL

I'm SERIOUS, HOTYH! What the new DA will do is the big question here.

 

[Sophie]

I'm just remembering a relative who was treated over many years for paranoia. Finally, she saw a new therapist who said, 'You know, Grace, I think genuine paranoia is rare - it's usually just a guilty conscience. Tell me, what are you ashamed of in your past?'

 

[angelwngs]

I'm just remembering a relative who was treated over many years for paranoia. Finally, she saw a new therapist who said, 'You know, Grace, I think genuine paranoia is rare - it's usually just a guilty conscience. Tell me, what are you ashamed of in your past?'

And the AWARD for BEST Post of the Day goes to....(drum roll please...),
Sophie!!!!!!!!! :woohoo:

Fabulously insightful post! Thank you!!!!

 

[Sophie]

HOTYH, I can't remember off-hand where we had our lengthy contretemps about socialism etc so I'll just post this here. The headlines on the BBC radio news actually said, 'Union attacks 'fat cats' so I'm a bit disappointed that their web version is different. Nonetheless this story inevitably made me think of you

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8263672.stm

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

"fat cat" + "Victory!" = socialist revolutionary

There's really no way around this. It has to be part of the JBR solution.

 

[Sophie]

However, read the headlines about Angela Merkel's conservative bloc winning the election in Germany, scattered as they are with 'victories,' and you'll see that these phrases turn up everywhere.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I think you just forgot about the 'fat cat' expression, and 'not the country that it serves', and singled out the word 'victory' and how that word gets used by everybody. But when we don't just ignore 'fat cat' and 'not the country that it serves' then were back to socialism.

An FBI profiler stated that the note had revolutionary connotations. And that was way, way back in 1997. This is the closest anybody has been to the solution ever since.

Like I said, socialism will be part of the JBR solution. There's really no way around it.

 

[DeeDee249]

"fat cat" + "Victory!" = socialist revolutionary

There's really no way around this. It has to be part of the JBR solution.

And after they killed this locally-known but otherwise very minor player in the global economy, they never ever made another public statement despite never being caught?

Those 3 words are not enough to make this a slam dunk.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

And after they killed this locally-known but otherwise very minor player in the global economy, they never ever made another public statement despite never being caught?

Those 3 words are not enough to make this a slam dunk.

You're wrong in at least three ways.

First, its not just those three words. "...not the country that it serves" adds a lot to the socialist revolutionary idea. Not just a little. A lot. You've chosen to not see any link between these expressions for obvious reasons. There is one and only one common thread between "fat cat," "Victory!," and "not the country that it serves," and the common thread is socialism. I suppose we could of course brush aside the 5th anniversary of the Soviet Union collapse, which took place on December 25, 1996. In favor of the somewhat sedate and officially overruled RDI. Its worth noting that without an angry socialist, we don't have an explanation for 'fat cat' or 'Victory!' or 'not the country that it serves' that isn't simply made up out of thin air.

Second, just because there hasn't been another public statement since 1996 doesn't mean there will never be another public statement. Thats a rather large and glaring assumption on your part.

Third, JBR wasn't even a very minor player in the global economy. You'll have to elaborate on that one. Did she get a big allowance or something?

 

[Sophie]

Does the fact that Patsy and her mother were known to call John a 'fat cat' and mock his being a midwesterner with southern common sense not make you think that the solution may be more local, HOTYH?

 

[Sophie]

And after they killed this locally-known but otherwise very minor player in the global economy, they never ever made another public statement despite never being caught?

Those 3 words are not enough to make this a slam dunk.

Totally true!

For a start, without the pageant pictures, this case would have just been local and not the world-wide cause celebre it became. To what end would revolutionary socialists make what they'd have to assume would be an anonymous and low-key statement?

Secondly, the Ramseys traded in flashiness (copyright, JAR) and in fact inferred jealousy from anyone who didn't like them (see their comments about Fleet White). This could easily inform a staged RN. In fact pinning the crime on someone who was jealous would be the most obvious way forward for them and they, with their dyed-in-the-wool conservativism, would probably use the most obvious sitcom-esque language of socialism in an attempt to give a patina of authenticity to the letter. In all honesty, if I were writing some sort of parody of revolutionary socialism, I'd very likely use that sort of language. I'd add a chorus of 'The Red Flag,' too, but that's just a personal quirk So, in essence, I think you are right that there are certain socialistic over-tones to the RN but I think we're miles away from establishing that a bona fide socialist wrote the note.

Thirdly, I wish someone had done a psychological autopsy on Patsy and
joined forces with a forensic linguist to predict the sort of RN she would have written. I'd bet it would be very close to the actual RN.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Totally true!

For a start, without the pageant pictures, this case would have just been local and not the world-wide cause celebre it became. To what end would revolutionary socialists make what they'd have to assume would be an anonymous and low-key statement?

What makes you believe the statement would remain anonymous and low-key forever?

This is wrong, in the same way DeeDee was wrong. "...this case would have just been local" presumes this case is over. What makes you think the killer would not be able to predict world-wide coverage, having known about the pageants? What makes you believe the case is over, that the extent of publicity or public outrage has been reached?

A socialist revolutionary by the name of _____________________, killed JBR in 1996 order to _______________________________________.

In reality, there are a number of things that could go in the blanks that would cause more publicity than the case has already received. What if the socialist revolutionary is already famous?

 

[BBB167893]

And after they killed this locally-known but otherwise very minor player in the global economy, they never ever made another public statement despite never being caught?

Those 3 words are not enough to make this a slam dunk.

I was going to say something to the effect of stating opinions as fact, but this is better!

 

[BBB167893]

Does the fact that Patsy and her mother were known to call John a 'fat cat' and mock his being a midwesterner with southern common sense not make you think that the solution may be more local, HOTYH?

You might as well be talking to a wall, Sophie. If I had a nickel for every time I'VE told him that, I'D be a major player in the economy!

 

[BBB167893]

I suppose we could of course brush aside the 5th anniversary of the Soviet Union collapse, which took place on December 25, 1996.

I would.

Its worth noting that without an angry socialist, we don't have an explanation for 'fat cat' or 'Victory!' or 'not the country that it serves' that isn't simply made up out of thin air.

We've given you PLENTY of explanations that are demonstrably not made up out of thin air. This is becoming a bore.

 

[BBB167893]

Totally true!

For a start, without the pageant pictures, this case would have just been local and not the world-wide cause celebre it became. To what end would revolutionary socialists make what they'd have to assume would be an anonymous and low-key statement?

Secondly, the Ramseys traded in flashiness (copyright, JAR) and in fact inferred jealousy from anyone who didn't like them (see their comments about Fleet White). This could easily inform a staged RN. In fact pinning the crime on someone who was jealous would be the most obvious way forward for them and they, with their dyed-in-the-wool conservativism, would probably use the most obvious sitcom-esque language of socialism in an attempt to give a patina of authenticity to the letter. In all honesty, if I were writing some sort of parody of revolutionary socialism, I'd very likely use that sort of language. I'd add a chorus of 'The Red Flag,' too, but that's just a personal quirk So, in essence, I think you are right that there are certain socialistic over-tones to the RN but I think we're miles away from establishing that a bona fide socialist wrote the note.

Thirdly, I wish someone had done a psychological autopsy on Patsy and
joined forces with a forensic linguist to predict the sort of RN she would have written. I'd bet it would be very close to the actual RN.

I LOOOVE you!

 

[Sophie]

I LOOOVE you!

Well, thank you: I love you too. xx

 

[Sophie]

HOTYH, the suggestion that the killers could have anticipated the JBR case going global on account of the pageants is, to me at least, a bit silly. For a start, how could they know that that guy would buy all the pageant pictures and sell them to the news channels? Could they know that the investigation's being botched would happen, causing so much interest in the case for so long? Could they have anticipated the sideshows and the personalities that would make this case so absorbing for so long? Could they count on the case not being solved immediately and passing into oblivion? If they'd wanted guaranteed attention, they'd have gone for a splashier target (ie. a celebrity or politician or high profile business person) and certainly have teased police in the following years with clues, similar offences etc.

In fact, on a prima facie interpretation of the RN, they wanted no attention at all - hence all the warnings about police etc.

Why would socialist revolutionaries with an axe to grind with the US (but no particular objection to a successful, capitalist business like Access, a paradox that your analysis consistently overlooks, BTW) disappear into the night never to be heard from again?


On the other hand, wouldn't a person with a known gift for extemporaneous writing (see off-the-cuff verses for unexpected guests at Christmas parties), a journalistic training which would certainly include political reporting during the very peak of the Cold War , the grandiose notion that everyone is jealous of her and the beauty queen's ability to think on her feet (see Dr Hodges's discussions with former beauty queens on how thinking on your feet becomes second nature in the pageants) contrive a note trying to pin the blame on a socialist stereotype?

Actually, though, given that Boulder was known as the People's Republic of Boulder (which Patsy knew and despised, I might add), I'm surprised at your continuing to look so far afield. There are so many IDI suspects that would fit your bill without even leave the shadow of the Flatirons...

 

[BBB167893]

HOTYH, the suggestion that the killers could have anticipated the JBR case going global on account of the pageants is, to me at least, a bit silly.

To be fair, Sophie, perhaps expected is not the proper word. Maybe "hoped" would be more accurate. Indeed, I've often said that a girl who lived such a spectacular life needed a spectacular death.

For a start, how could they know that that guy would buy all the pageant pictures and sell them to the news channels? Could they know that the investigation's being botched would happen, causing so much interest in the case for so long? Could they have anticipated the sideshows and the personalities that would make this case so absorbing for so long? Could they count on the case not being solved immediately and passing into oblivion? If they'd wanted guaranteed attention, they'd have gone for a splashier target (ie. a celebrity or politician or high profile business person) and certainly have teased police in the following years with clues, similar offences etc.

In fact, on a prima facie interpretation of the RN, they wanted no attention at all - hence all the warnings about police etc.

Why would socialist revolutionaries with an axe to grind with the US (but no particular objection to a successful, capitalist business like Access, a paradox that your analysis consistently overlooks, BTW) disappear into the night never to be heard from again?

Excellent!

On the other hand, wouldn't a person with a known gift for extemporaneous writing (see off-the-cuff verses for unexpected guests at Christmas parties), a journalistic training which would certainly include political reporting during the very peak of the Cold War , the grandiose notion that everyone is jealous of her and the beauty queen's ability to think on her feet (see Dr Hodges's discussions with former beauty queens on how thinking on your feet becomes second nature in the pageants) contrive a note trying to pin the blame on a socialist stereotype?

Actually, though, given that Boulder was known as the People's Republic of Boulder (which Patsy knew and despised, I might add), I'm surprised at your continuing to look so far afield. There are so many IDI suspects that would fit your bill without even leave the shadow of the Flatirons...

:clap: :clap:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

HOTYH, the suggestion that the killers could have anticipated the JBR case going global on account of the pageants is, to me at least, a bit silly. For a start, how could they know that that guy would buy all the pageant pictures and sell them to the news channels? Could they know that the investigation's being botched would happen, causing so much interest in the case for so long? Could they have anticipated the sideshows and the personalities that would make this case so absorbing for so long? Could they count on the case not being solved immediately and passing into oblivion? If they'd wanted guaranteed attention, they'd have gone for a splashier target (ie. a celebrity or politician or high profile business person) and certainly have teased police in the following years with clues, similar offences etc.

In fact, on a prima facie interpretation of the RN, they wanted no attention at all - hence all the warnings about police etc.

Why would socialist revolutionaries with an axe to grind with the US (but no particular objection to a successful, capitalist business like Access, a paradox that your analysis consistently overlooks, BTW) disappear into the night never to be heard from again?


On the other hand, wouldn't a person with a known gift for extemporaneous writing (see off-the-cuff verses for unexpected guests at Christmas parties), a journalistic training which would certainly include political reporting during the very peak of the Cold War , the grandiose notion that everyone is jealous of her and the beauty queen's ability to think on her feet (see Dr Hodges's discussions with former beauty queens on how thinking on your feet becomes second nature in the pageants) contrive a note trying to pin the blame on a socialist stereotype?

Actually, though, given that Boulder was known as the People's Republic of Boulder (which Patsy knew and despised, I might add), I'm surprised at your continuing to look so far afield. There are so many IDI suspects that would fit your bill without even leave the shadow of the Flatirons...

Thank you for your post, because it allows me to see assumptions most vividly:

If they'd wanted guaranteed attention, they'd have gone for a splashier target

disappear into the night never to be heard from again?

These are your assumptions, your characterizations not mine. I never posted they wanted guaranteed attention, or that they will never be heard from again. You did, because you believe this is how my ideas should be viewed.

To put it another way, they may not have wanted attention at that time, but thats not to say they'll never want attention, or that they'll never be heard from again.

Consider that interest in RDI is waning, an intruder could've had hours with JBR in the basement, and the intruder could've been politically motivated. That makes for a whole range of unpleasant possibilities, that RDI could never comprehend. Some of which are (new word) latent.

How this all plays out is an unknown. JBR's final headline is not known by you.

Note to SD: man all your stuff reads like sour grapes! Sorry I'm just a boring wall to you! Did you want me to cave and say RDI stuff? Become just another horse with blinders on? I suggest you re-read some of Voinich's excellent posts that reference the linguistics study and other unsolicited and in-depth research. In there you may find the truth, assuming of course that is what you seek.