No intruder?

[Toltec]

Yes, I think Officer French arrived on the scene first, but that didn't mean he was first to enter the basement. I cannot confirm my sources, and I expect neither can you. Either way, whoever arrived there first apparently noticed the lights were on.

Of course, it's pointless to discuss it, when neither of us know what actually happened.

Looks like we have another Officer looking into the basement that morning....Officer Reichenbach. Seems he arrived after Officer French did:

He (Reichenbach) went down into the sprawling basement and walked through it. At the far end was a white door secured at the top by a block of wood that pivoted on a screw. Reichenbach tried to open the door, stopped when he felt resistence, then returned upstairs. Reichenbach, Officer French, and one of the friends Patsy had called, Fleet White, would all check that white door in the basement during the morning, and White would even open it. They found nothing.

ITRMI ppb page 20

 

[SunnieRN]

So, it looks as if SOMEONE wiped it clean and forgot it. NOW just to establish if it was the Rs or and IDI??




I'm beginning to anticipate.



It was Toltec


And you have this on the good authority of whom?



Well, that's an entirely different issue, let's just stick the the flashlight for the present eh?



JR said it looked a bit like his, but it was dirty.

You have to remember, that when it comes to your 'entirely different issue', that the R's turned in the additional pairs of size 12 underwear years later. Therefore denying that they were even on JB is pointless at best and ludicrous at most.

Sticking to the flashlight, there is NO evidence that an intruder left it behind. There is also the point that it looks like one that John got as a present from Andrew. If John had used it on Christmas day at the airport, Patsy would have no idea how dirty or clean it would have been. As for being left on the counter, that is NOT what makes it suspicious. What does that is the absence of any fingerprints whatsoever on the inside, outside or on the batteries.

 

[Agatha_C]

Please forgive me for jumping from the goldfish bowl into the sharks tank, but I have some questions sparked by your debate....

You mean to tell me that a man with sports cars, two boats, two planes and 6.4 million dollars, only had one flashlight, and he had to carry it back and forth?

I would think it would be standard to have that in a tool/survival kit on board all such modes of transportation? I mean, we have one in each of our vehicles as well as several in our small house and we are only dollaraire's.

Is it possible that it was simply forgotten like the pineapple, tea and just about every other thing they were asked. I mean its as simple as asking them a question "They don't know or they forgot". There had to of been so much panic, fear and activity taking place, they just simply forgot to put it back.

Also I agree with Dave, I wouldn't think twice about seeing a flashlight laying around someones house.

Yikes.....Swim little goldfish, Swim??????

 

[SunnieRN]

Good point Agatha! Why would they only own one flashlight?

The lack of fingerprints is what continues to make it suspicious. What was being hidden? JonBenet's finger prints, Burke's? Patsy's? There was no reason that all of them shouldn't have been found on the flashlight, it was only suspicious due to their absence. Grrr!

 

[CathyR]

Good point Agatha! Why would they only own one flashlight?

The lack of fingerprints is what continues to make it suspicious. What was being hidden? JonBenet's finger prints, Burke's? Patsy's? There was no reason that all of them shouldn't have been found on the flashlight, it was only suspicious due to their absence. Grrr!

The post about Burke having given it recently to John made me think that maybe it came with batteries already installed. If they hadn't expired yet they may have been factory installed with machinery, no fingerprints there. Really good mag lites have batteries in them already. The surface of ours has a tight diamond cut metal that would be difficult to print. It is that way to make the grip tight.
The flashlight being wiped down on the outside is explainable if it was involved in the crime and the perp either wiped it and left it as he didn't want anything to tie him to the house.

I imagine most of their flashlights were in their home in Michigan, they boated there they did more outdoor activities. They didn't ski or do a lot of snow sports often even though they lived in Colorado. Camping was done in Michigan as well so the need for flashlights in Colorado was limited to power outages. One on bottom floor as their habit was to go upstairs to 3rd floor for mainly bedtime and dressing. No book I have ever read has ever mentioned searching their cars and the trunks. Did I miss something?

I imagine Patsy wouldn't carry a flashlight in her car I see her as a AAA member who had complete car care coverage.

Don't know how mechanical John was. He might be good at engineering but has no true life mechanical ability. Most engineers I know are that way.

 

[Tadpole12]

The post about Burke having given it recently to John made me think that maybe it came with batteries already installed. If they hadn't expired yet they may have been factory installed with machinery, no fingerprints there. Really good mag lites have batteries in them already. The surface of ours has a tight diamond cut metal that would be difficult to print. It is that way to make the grip tight.
The flashlight being wiped down on the outside is explainable if it was involved in the crime and the perp either wiped it and left it as he didn't want anything to tie him to the house.

I imagine most of their flashlights were in their home in Michigan, they boated there they did more outdoor activities. They didn't ski or do a lot of snow sports often even though they lived in Colorado. Camping was done in Michigan as well so the need for flashlights in Colorado was limited to power outages. One on bottom floor as their habit was to go upstairs to 3rd floor for mainly bedtime and dressing. No book I have ever read has ever mentioned searching their cars and the trunks. Did I miss something?

I imagine Patsy wouldn't carry a flashlight in her car I see her as a AAA member who had complete car care coverage.

Don't know how mechanical John was. He might be good at engineering but has no true life mechanical ability. Most engineers I know are that way.

Really good mag lites have batteries in them already. - CR

Heyya CR.

Well, that's a fascinating tidbit.
That would explain away the oddity of the flashlight batteries being described as having been wiped down.

 

[SunnieRN]

As far as I know, the flashlight was a gift from Andrew, not Burke and the R's had already had it for awhile. Finger prints could have been wiped away as it was used in the crime, or to make it a red herring.

 

[UKGuy]

As far as I know, the flashlight was a gift from Andrew, not Burke and the R's had already had it for awhile. Finger prints could have been wiped away as it was used in the crime, or to make it a red herring.

SunnieRN,

Sure I agree. John had it long enough to require a battery change at some point prior to JonBenet's death. The flashlite is bit like the size-12's, from our perspective, both appear unnecessary actions, which draw attention to themselves.

The red herring is the staging in the wine-cellar, the flashlite simply played some part, either to light the way or assist in penning the ransom note.

There are three possible explanations for the flashlite being wiped clean, well four I guess:

1. Intruder

2. Ramsey

3. Accomplice

4. Friend


3. Suggests the Ramsey's phoned someone through the night. This person came over and used the flashlite, so it needed wiped clean.

4. One of the friends Patsy phoned to come round that morning picked it up and wiped it clean, they were wiping the walls and doors ...

If I was an intruder and I used the flashlite I would place it in my pocket and take it with me when I left the house, why bother wasting time cleaning it up? Especially when I have a murder toolkit to take away anyway, including JonBenet's size-6 underwear.


All IDI theories eventually collapse because they are incoherent and lack credibility.


.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

For an intruder:

Leaving the cord roll or tape roll is bad because they could be traced to a recent purchase. Taking the flashlight is bad because it winds up in the car and could be traced back to JR.

Basically, the things the intruder brought with him he took when he left. The things he 'borrowed' he left there. If he borrowed the flashlight then he would probably wipe it off first. My guess is the cord and tape rolls went over the side of the road, and the perp still has the paintbrush fragment from the non-bristle end.

 

[joeskidbeck]

For an intruder:

Leaving the cord roll or tape roll is bad because they could be traced to a recent purchase. Taking the flashlight is bad because it winds up in the car and could be traced back to JR.

Basically, the things the intruder brought with him he took when he left. The things he 'borrowed' he left there. If he borrowed the flashlight then he would probably wipe it off first. My guess is the cord and tape rolls went over the side of the road, and the perp still has the paintbrush fragment from the non-bristle end.

Do you believe the flashlight batteries died while he was using it? Did he have extras that he wiped down before installing them? If he borrowed the Ramsey FL, there was no need to wipe down the batteries.

 

[UKGuy]

Do you believe the flashlight batteries died while he was using it? Did he have extras that he wiped down before installing them? If he borrowed the Ramsey FL, there was no need to wipe down the batteries.

joeskidbeck,
Some posters must reckon we are dumb. Do you think JonBenet's size-6 underwear is traceable back to her?



.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Joe,
The Ramsey's claim the flashlight found was NOT theirs, although admitting to owning one just like it in which I believe John's son JR bought for them years prior. They could not locate it after the crime. I see there is a whole new batch of newbees to this case. I can't imagine rehashing evidence after all these years. It's a mute point and a mute case I am afraid.

Since this is still an open case, I think a smart move at this point would be to publically ask both John and Burke Ramsey to submit to another lie detector test and actually Burke's fist lie detector test in this case. We all know they will both decline and lawyer back up, but in this day and age with all our technological advances I think the public pressure would be pretty unbarable. People want answers. After all, what do they have to hide? It will never happen mind you, Boulder doesn't have the balls to even ask. Just imagine after all these years John Ramsey who swore to the public he was catch this intruder has not done one thing to continue the search for the killer. The only justice in this case is knowing that John Ramsey has to sleep with one eye open every night in fear of the day that someone with some brains takes over the DAs office in Boulder. One can only hope

 

[joeskidbeck]

UKGuy, they certainly would have been idiots if they didn't burn those at the first opportunity. We know they are not idiots, so I guess my answer would have to be an emphatic "no".

 

[joeskidbeck]

Joe,
The Ramsey's claim the flashlight found was NOT theirs, although admitting to owning one just like it in which I believe John's son JR bought for them years prior. They could not locate it after the crime. I see there is a whole new batch of newbees to this case. I can't imagine rehashing evidence after all these years. It's a mute point and a mute case I am afraid.

Since this is still an open case, I think a smart move at this point would be to publically ask both John and Burke Ramsey to submit to another lie detector test and actually Burke's fist lie detector test in this case. We all know they will both decline and lawyer back up, but in this day and age with all our technological advances I think the public pressure would be pretty unbarable. People want answers. After all, what do they have to hide? It will never happen mind you, Boulder doesn't have the balls to even ask. Just imagine after all these years John Ramsey who swore to the public he was catch this intruder has not done one thing to continue the search for the killer. The only justice in this case is knowing that John Ramsey has to sleep with one eye open every night in fear of the day that someone with some brains takes over the DAs office in Boulder. One can only hope

Nedthan, I totally agree with your post. I posted somewhere recently that I hope Stan Garnett has the cajones that it will take to prosecute someone in this case. Burke's refusal (per Lin Wood, of course) to even speak to the detectives is the final straw for me. I do believe that John Ramsey does not have one moment's peace these days for fear of what I hope is true. The really sad part is that if BR had nothing to do with her killing, he should be able to tell what he knows. Now, on the other hand, his refusal makes me think he is way more involved than I ever imagined. Sure can't imagine how any of these people (I include the extended family here) ever got one good night's sleep in the last 14 years.
I do have to believe that one day the truth will come out, if I didn't, I would leave this board and never return.
The people here who don't want to believe in the Ramseys guilt will never convince me otherwise, so I may just be wasting my time anyway.
Good to see you, Nedthan. I read here for years before finally starting to post and I remember your posts being very intelligent, indeed.
Becky

 

[Agatha_C]

Nedthan, I totally agree with publicly calling out the R's, in fact I find it brilliant. My sister and I were talking about starting a Christmas card drive. You know when you get as many people as you can to send cards all at the same time to various persons involved IE...DA's office, LE, the Mayor, Governor, and congressman. Can you picture it 100,000 Christmas cards showing up en-mass, for JBR, demanding something finally be done.... Or how about a "Beer can collector" drive, to earn money for a reward leading to the arrest of the perp, going public with the details. APPLY PRESSURE!!!!!! Stand up and YELL its been long enough, DO SOMETHING!!!!!!

Remember, if you think that you are too small and insignificant too make an impact, then try going to bed with a mosquito in your room. Big or small, you can have an impact....

How about another quote (egad's) It only takes one acorn to grow a whole forest...

 

[SunnieRN]

I posted something similar in another thread. Why doesn't the BPD bring John and Burke in for questioning? Why do they have the right to refuse to appear? I know they have the right to plead the fifth, but that in its self is telling.

If BPD is not willing, why not the FBI? They should have jurisdiction under the same laws that got Santas son in jail for kidnapping. JB was taken from her bed to the basement (per her parents statement that she was asleep from the time they returned home).

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

 

[Agatha_C]

There are two rules I believe...

The rules/laws for those that have and the rules/laws for those that have not.

 

[SunnieRN]

There should also be the rules of justice. The death of a six year old, should trump the 'haves'. You know, I hope, that I don't mean this personally toward you Agatha, but JBR should be the guiding force to LE.

Someone said in one of these threads that a suspect could not be compeled to be interviewed by LE. As far as I know neither John nor Burke have yet been named suspects, so they should HAVE to comply with the request to be interviewed.

Either that, or maybe there should be a new term. If the police want to question someone about a crime, they could pull 'A Ramsey' and refuse to be questioned. For us peons, that would get us arrested! Suspicion of guilt and obstructing justice!

 

[Agatha_C]

I totally agree Sunni, Justice for JBR, is all that should matter, but sadly Justice does have a price tag.

In PR's words....


Patsy was growing anxious about High Peaks, the school JonBenet and Burke were going to. There were children in some classes who would never be self-sufficient, physically handicapped, but they were being mainstreamed into the classroom. They have a right to be educated, but there were these other intelligent little boys and girls who were growing up to make a living, pay taxes, and they were sitting and waiting. The teacher told me her first obligation was to those handicapped children. And you just wonder how much time in the course of a day is spent on the children who need to be learning so that they can take their place in society; I know the teacher wanted to do more, but there was only one of her and an aide.
DOI Page 204

When you have money, people and justice are expendable.....

Pithy on thee Sunni, know you not that peasants are to be sacrificed for the Nobles? Fie on thee, crawl back to thy hut and never again speak of thy betters in such a way....

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If Patsy had a problem with High Peaks, why didn't she send JBR and Burke to a private school? Boulder Country Day School is K-8 and they could certainly afford to send both of them there. Even before I read that excerpt, I always found it strange that Burke and JBR were in public school considering how much Patsy valued status.

Also, according to Boulder school district website, in 2010, JBR and Burke would be sent to Flatirons Elementary School. Obviously, this could have changed in 14 years but it says that High Peaks was open enrollment to all Boulder residents. Did Patsy request that BR and JBR go there? It also says that High Peaks began using their Core Knowledge program in the 1996-97 school year; the year JBR entered the school. Didn't Patsy rave about the program in her Xmas letter?