No intruder?

  • #161
Stated as fact, but wrong. It does NOT mean that someone not tested yet handled those clothes.

The first DNA was found mixed with blood, taken in a swab of JBR's blood. Really, the first DNA sample had the clothes as a host but the DNA could be mixed with the blood first before contacting the clothing. You're assuming the first DNA was deposited by manual handling of her underwear but you don't really know. Now THATS a fact.

Nah...

The context the DNA was found in, on the waistband and in the underwear, were areas selected by the police because they were considered relevant to the crime that happened. They had a POSITIVE result while testing criminally relevant surfaces.

Be glad, we now know intruder.

This is false.

How do skin cells get onto a surface? Vastly more likely from a touch from the skin cell owner. Vastly.

Do you know how convoluted it is for RDI to now suggest the skin cells that ML discovered were deposited by someone other than the skin cell owner who didn't then deposit their own skin cells? Do you have any idea how desperate that makes RDI seem?

If these same deposits were owned by PR or JR, then RDI. Thats how incriminating the deposits are.

The DNA deposits are smoking gun evidence of an intruder. Its not my fault if it gets ignored here.

Wow!!! Answer me as to the fact that ONLY certain areas of the clothing were tested. JR carried JB upstairs. He held her around the waist. Why wasn't his touch DNA found in those spots?

PR stated she layed on JB, touching and kissing her. Why wasn't PR's touch DNA found?

This touch DNA does not even have all 13 of the markers that should be there. It is not a complete specimen.

Agatha, you are a voice of reason, as are you Madeline!
 
  • #162
Strange DNA on the outside of her pants. Fibers from her fathers shirt on the inside, crotch of her panties. Hmmmmm, DNA outside of pants, guilty intruder. JR fibers on his dead daughters crotch, Innocent. And you say that makes sense too you? Interesting and RDI just throws stuff out there.

Agatha_C,

Well said. :dance: Only the IDI can talk nonsense like that. Equating unmatched touch-dna, note: its not touch-dna with the IDI but DNA, duh; with an unknown intruder who left zero forensic evidence behind, sounds pretty desperate to me.

The Ramsey's only defense is that there was an intruder, but guess what there is zero evidence to back this up.

The IDI position is totally untenable e.g. no evidence means it was an intruder.


.
 
  • #163
Wow!!! Answer me as to the fact that ONLY certain areas of the clothing were tested. JR carried JB upstairs. He held her around the waist. Why wasn't his touch DNA found in those spots?

PR stated she layed on JB, touching and kissing her. Why wasn't PR's touch DNA found?

This touch DNA does not even have all 13 of the markers that should be there. It is not a complete specimen.

Agatha, you are a voice of reason, as are you Madeline!

my bold.

This is false. The leggings touch DNA produced two separate and complete DNA profiles that matched each other, and matched the CODIS DNA from the blood swab.

Your post presents invalid information because the touch DNA is processed the same as blood or semen.

Replicating these three deposits of DNA on two items of clothing she was wearing at the time she was murdered is not going to be easy EXCEPT for the person who sexually assaulted her. For that person, its very easy to replicate the DNA deposits. In fact it would be hard to avoid.
 
  • #164
if there was no intruder who wore the HI-TECH shoes? where is the roll of duct tape?
 
  • #165
Peepers,

BR admitted at the Grand Jury, that he had Hi Tech boots, a fact his friend FW junior backed up (he either told LE or the Grand Jury, not sure which). LE also had proof of PR purchasing them.

As for the duct tape, no one knows what left with BR that morning or what PP hauled out and hauled off.

Maybe you should know, that no one knows when that boot print was put there. Was it before? Was it after? Only those involved know that answer.
 
  • #166
my bold.

This is false. The leggings touch DNA produced two separate and complete DNA profiles that matched each other, and matched the CODIS DNA from the blood swab.

Your post presents invalid information because the touch DNA is processed the same as blood or semen.

Replicating these three deposits of DNA on two items of clothing she was wearing at the time she was murdered is not going to be easy EXCEPT for the person who sexually assaulted her. For that person, its very easy to replicate the DNA deposits. In fact it would be hard to avoid.

Links to prove your post please.
 
  • #167
I have a question, why didn´t the parents , relatives and neighbors first search everywhere in the house even before calling 911?
just because they found the RN?
if so why did they decide searching later then as everyone thought she has been abducted?
 
  • #168
I have a question, why didn´t the parents , relatives and neighbors first search everywhere in the house even before calling 911?
just because they found the RN?
if so why did they decide searching later then as everyone thought she has been abducted?

Hi Dirk. The Ramseys did not want the house searched before LE arrived. They needed LE to find JB's body. The only reason John finally went and found it is because he was afraid LE was never going to find it. Do you know of anyone who wouldn't search their whole house for their child (even with a ransom note)? I don't. First, call 911. Second, search house top to bottom in case this is some kind of sick joke OR kidnapping that went wrong and my child is hiding somewhere in the house afraid to come out.
 
  • #169
I have a question, why didn´t the parents , relatives and neighbors first search everywhere in the house even before calling 911?
just because they found the RN?
if so why did they decide searching later then as everyone thought she has been abducted?


Great question Dirk!! Welcome to Websleuths!
 
  • #170
DIRK SCHILLER,

Welcome to the madness Dirk, Have you read the RN? Just curious. The RN stated that they shouldn't call anyone or she dies (a past tens word by the way, indicating that she was already dead), why did they call anyone? Why didn't they inform the 911 operator of the RN's specific instructions?

They were searching for anything that might have been out of place. The real question comes when you ask, why did he go right to where she was? If your looking for things out of place wouldn't you look at where she had last been? Or even in the places the family lived the most.
 
  • #171
It seems that even the police thought JBR had been removed from the house since they were just taking pictures of her bedroom, where they thought she had been kidnapped from. If you found an RN in your house, why you would think your child was still in the house? Obviously, the child did not write the RN. Like everyone has said, it's strange to have an RN and a dead body in the same house. I do believe the R's wrote the note but I can see how even if they didn't write it and an intruder did, how they wouldn't end up searching the house.
 
  • #172
well I first would not believe my daughter has been kidnapped althought I found a RN, so I would start searching like crazy the whole house
second, if you havent found the front door unlocked/open, what would you think how the kidnapper would take a child out of the house if not using the front door?
was the door unlocked/open?
could the kidnapper use other door/window?
so I would search first the whole house while my husband/wife call 911
 
  • #173
Right on, Dirk! I bet the next thing you would do is wake up the child that is sleeping in the room next door to your missing child to see if he heard or saw anything last night, right? You sound like a very intelligent guy. Glad to have you here!

:Welcome-12-june:
 
  • #174
HOTYH, here is a link for you:

One year later, during the first week of May, 2001; detective Lou Smit presented his intruder theory on the Today Show. He stated that the DNA, found in the panties and under JonBenet's fingernails, did not match John or Burke Ramsey and indicated an intruder. He said that the hair found on the blanket was also an indication of an intruder. It has been stated that the DNA in JonBenet's panties and under her finger nails was several days old and degraded. While Smit believed the hair found on the blanket belonged to an intruder, it has subsequently been identified as belonging to Patsy Ramsey. Molecular biologist Melissa Weber of CellMark Laboratories consulted several detectives after CellMark analyzed the DNA. Steve Thomas and Deputy DA DeMuth were at this meeting, Lou Smit was not. Steve Thomas said that Melissa Weber stated that the analysis showed the possibility that there may be DNA of another person mixed in with JonBenet's DNA found in the panties and under her fingernails. However, this foreign DNA could be the result of a false positive (stutter). Melissa Weber went on to say that if there were two sources of DNA and they were mixed together, then no one could be excluded. This is contrary to Lou Smit's statement that John and Burke had been excluded. Shortly after the meeting with Weber, Deputy DA DeMuth announced that the DNA did not match John Ramsey's DNA. While technically a true statement, a better statement would have been, "No DNA match is possible under present technology". st268

When CellMark Laboratories was given the job of testing the DNA under JonBenet's fingernails and in her panties, there wasn't enough DNA to test, so they had to grow more DNA from the small sample they did have. The process of growing more DNA from a small sample is called PCR amplification. Unfortunately, when you don't have a perfect sample, the DNA is old,degraded or damaged, the imperfect DNA is amplified also. Sometimes, this imperfect DNA, or non-matching DNA, gives a false impression that another persons DNA is mixed in with the sample. Having additional markers is a common problem with PCR amplification. Scientist call this problem, stuttering or shadow bands.

When the DNA under the fingernails and in the panties was tested there were more markers than there should have been. What caused these extra markers? Was it an indicator of an intruder's DNA mixed in with JonBenet's, or was it caused by amplifying degraded DNA (stutter bands). In the two samples, the location of the extra DNA markers should match exactly if the DNA under her fingernails and in her panties came from the same person, but they don't match. Since they do not match, you will have to conclude that there were two intruders or the mismatch was caused by the stutter effect. If the stutter (Amplifying degraded DNA) effect is responsible for the extra markers, then there was no intruder and there is no foreign DNA.

This quote is found in multiple places.

Also, this::

fingernail dna
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7615/update.html

One year later, during the first week of May, 2001; detective Lou Smit presented his intruder theory on the Today Show. He stated that the DNA, found in the panties and under JonBenet's fingernails, did not match John or Burke Ramsey and indicated an intruder. He said that the hair found on the blanket was also an indication of an intruder. It has been stated that the DNA in JonBenet's panties and under her finger nails was several days old and degraded. While Smit believed the hair found on the blanket belonged to an intruder, it has subsequently been identified as belonging to Patsy Ramsey. Molecular biologist Melissa Weber of CellMark Laboratories consulted several detectives after CellMark analyzed the DNA. Steve Thomas and Deputy DA DeMuth were at this meeting, Lou Smit was not. Steve Thomas said that Melissa Weber stated that the analysis showed the possibility that there may be DNA of another person mixed in with JonBenet's DNA found in the panties and under her fingernails. However, this foreign DNA could be the result of a false positive (stutter). Melissa Weber went on to say that if there were two sources of DNA and they were mixed together, then no one could be excluded. This is contrary to Lou Smit's statement that John and Burke had been excluded. Shortly after the meeting with Weber, Deputy DA DeMuth announced that the DNA did not match John Ramsey's DNA. While technically a true statement, a better statement would have been, "No DNA match is possible under present technology". st268

When CellMark Laboratories was given the job of testing the DNA under JonBenet's fingernails and in her panties, there wasn't enough DNA to test, so they had to grow more DNA from the small sample they did have. The process of growing more DNA from a small sample is called PCR amplification. Unfortunately, when you don't have a perfect sample, the DNA is old,degraded or damaged, the imperfect DNA is amplified also. Sometimes, this imperfect DNA, or non-matching DNA, gives a false impression that another persons DNA is mixed in with the sample. Having additional markers is a common problem with PCR amplification. Scientist call this problem, stuttering or shadow bands.

When the DNA under the fingernails and in the panties was tested there were more markers than there should have been. What caused these extra markers? Was it an indicator of an intruder's DNA mixed in with JonBenet's, or was it caused by amplifying degraded DNA (stutter bands). In the two samples, the location of the extra DNA markers should match exactly if the DNA under her fingernails and in her panties came from the same person, but they don't match. Since they do not match, you will have to conclude that there were two intruders or the mismatch was caused by the stutter effect. If the stutter (Amplifying degraded DNA) effect is responsible for the extra markers, then there was no intruder and there is no foreign DNA.
 
  • #175
Right on, Dirk! I bet the next thing you would do is wake up the child that is sleeping in the room next door to your missing child to see if he heard or saw anything last night, right? You sound like a very intelligent guy. Glad to have you here!

:Welcome-12-june:

thank a lot but I´m an old grandma, my son Dirk Schiller has been abducted and still missing ,from Germany(read my thread please)

well the first thing I would do is after checking on my daughter I will check on my other kid if he´s save
Sorry for my english
Heidi
 
  • #176
thank a lot but I´m an old grandma, my son Dirk Schiller has been abducted and still missing ,from Germany(read my thread please)

well the first thing I would do is after checking on my daughter I will check on my other kid if he´s save
Sorry for my english
Heidi

Your english is fine and I appreciate you sharing with us.
 
  • #177
if there was no intruder who wore the HI-TECH shoes? where is the roll of duct tape?

BR had Hi-Tec shoes. His parents denied it, but he told LE had had them. BUT- lots of LE as well as contractors, repairmen, etc. wear them. Just because the print was in the WC doesn't mean it had anything to do with the crime. Men were in there just a few weeks before, getting Christmas decorations out.
The tape could have been taken out anywhere- none of the Rs were searched when the left. They didn't leave in their underwear- they were wearing heavy winter coats and Patsy had a purse. In addition, they were going to stay with friends. They had overnight bags at least.
We don't know for sure if the duct tape even came off a roll. It could have been a piece that was previously on something else.
 
  • #178
Oh Heidi, I am so sorry and my family will add you to our prayers.... I am so sad in my heart right now, that I don't know what to say, and believe me thats rare.. Do you need to talk, you can private message me and I will give you my email, we can take it from there......
 
  • #179
The question falls under the fallacy of presupposition.

Like, "When did you stop hitting your wife?"

Yeah, that sums it up well.
 
  • #180
unknown dna doesn't mean an 'intruder killed JB'.

it only means someone not tested yet handled those clothes,panties and longjohns.that's it.that's not much.

That's about the size of it.
 

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