No intruder?

[BBB167893]

The context the DNA was found in, on the waistband and in the underwear, were areas selected by the police because they were considered relevant to the crime that happened.

You mean selected by the DA's office. And that's EXACTLY the problem! They picked areas that THEY considered relevant because they had already DECIDED what happened. That's okay, as long as IDI does it, apparently!

They had a POSITIVE result while testing criminally relevant surfaces.

I don't suppose you'd know just off the top of your head any of the OTHER places they tested, or IF they tested any other places, just to make sure they weren't off on a(nother) wild goose chase?

 

[BBB167893]

Why did ML test ONLY those places?she thought from the beginning this was a sex crime.kinda limited IMO.

My point EXACTLY! If anyone's "evading" anything, it's our friend.

 

[BBB167893]

ML did exactly what we blame ST to have done,looking only for evidence that fits a specific theory.thanks but no thanks.I am not impressed with their findings.

Yeah, but maddy, apparently it's OKAY when ML does it! (And I like how you phrased that: what ST was ACCUSED of ML actually DID.)

 

[BBB167893]

Sunnie is correct here. Lets us say windows in you neighborhood have been shot out for months. The police has reason to suspect you and they ask you to come down to headquarters to be questioned. You sit down and they start asking you about the different incidents and want to know where you were on this day at this time. You end up confessing to the crime. It goes to court your defense counsel argues that they did not read you your Miranda rights before they questioned you, therefore your confession is thrown out of court it is not admissible to the case.If you are questioned by the police they are supposed to read you your rights before they question you even if the do not think you are a suspect. You might reveal other criminal behavior to them that may be interested in pursuing. There is a CYA factor to the Miranda rights that also guards a police investigation and only makes it stronger.

CathyR, it's exactly for that reason that people like me are in favor of repealing the exclusionary rule. Ever since those lousy Supreme Court decisions from the 1960s, convictions have dropped like a rock. Indeed, I could make (and have made) the argument that a good number of the problems in this case can be traced back to those 1960s ideas about crime and justice.

What does bother me is how petty all the sides got as to where the R's would be questioned. The DA if truly interested should have questioned them anywhere they could. They should have filed obstruction charges, or threatened to when the R's lawyers started trying to dictate to them.

You're damn right!

I have come to the conclusion that the DA and BPD have messed up this case so badly no one working on the cases should be employed as lawyers or police officers anymore.

That's something we ALL can agree on!

Only the most minor players who did leg work and evidence collections should be left in an overall purging or clean house effort to get some justice for the citizens of Boulder.

That's not good enough for me, Cathy. I've been saying for years that this investigation cannot be fixed. It's time to start over.

I wouldn't live there after reading about this case and I don't want any of my tourist dollars to support the people who do nothing about their communities lack of law enforcement and prosecution abilities.

I wouldn't have wanted to live there period. (Incidentally, Cathy, have you ever heard of Jason Midyette?)

 

[BBB167893]

Oh, and I'm not just throwing that out there, I've actually given it more than a passing thought.[/B]

That's kind of the problem, Agatha. No matter how much time and effort and thought we put into something, it will always be dismissed as being "just thrown out" or some other damn nonsense.

 

[BBB167893]

Strange DNA on the outside of her pants. Fibers from her fathers shirt on the inside, crotch of her panties. Hmmmmm, DNA outside of pants, guilty intruder. JR fibers on his dead daughters crotch, Innocent. And you say that makes sense too you? Interesting and RDI just throws stuff out there.

Boy, you don't pull any punches, Agatha. (I knew I liked you!)

 

[BBB167893]

Only the IDI can talk nonsense like that.

Don't I know it. As a former IDI, I speak fluent BS. Problem is, I'm tired of speaking it!

 

[BBB167893]

I have a question, why didn´t the parents , relatives and neighbors first search everywhere in the house even before calling 911?
just because they found the RN?
if so why did they decide searching later then as everyone thought she has been abducted?

Hi, Dirk. Damn good questions.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You mean selected by the DA's office. And that's EXACTLY the problem! They picked areas that THEY considered relevant because they had already DECIDED what happened. That's okay, as long as IDI does it, apparently!

Oh I'm sorry. Give credit where credit is due and all that. It was the DA's office who discovered trace DNA on separate items of the clothing taken from a child murder victim.

Excellent. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I don't suppose you'd know just off the top of your head any of the OTHER places they tested, or IF they tested any other places, just to make sure they weren't off on a(nother) wild goose chase?

Why keep chasing when you've already caught the goose?

 

[BBB167893]

Oh I'm sorry. Give credit where credit is due and all that. It was the DA's office who discovered trace DNA on separate items of the clothing taken from a child murder victim.

Excellent. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I think we have a failure to communicate here. It's like you didn't read a word I said.

On a similar note, I'll always give the devil his due, but I'll never forget that he IS a devil.

Why keep chasing when you've already caught the goose?

That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about.

 

[madeleine]

Yeah, but maddy, apparently it's OKAY when ML does it! (And I like how you phrased that: what ST was ACCUSED of ML actually DID.)

It wasn't okay for neither of them to do it,they both did it IMO,think you misunderstood me.ST was so fixated on PR that he totally forgot about the other two players in the house.Sorry,I will never accept that.
I blame both for what they did.
That's why I like S.Singular,he's the only one who said a IDI+RDI scenario is possible.And he's right.If some evidence points to RDI and some seems to point to IDI....maybe this is what they have to look for.A R plus an accomplice(and by accomplice I mean helper) OR and friendly intruder who the R's are covering for.

 

[madeleine]

Will try to explain it :

Let's say for the sake of argument that all their handwriting experts claimed PR 100% wrote the RN.Okay.
But on the other hand you have another experts who claim she was sexually abused prior to the murder.

What's more relevant re who the killer is?
Who's most likely the killer,the one who wrote the note or the one who sexually abused her?

ST obviously gave JR the pass,just watch the LKL show.I will never agree with that and never understand that.There were 3 Ramseys in that home that night,not ONE.

 

[madeleine]

I always said this....if JDI or BDI,they should send ST flowers and a bottle of wine every single week!

Call me nuts (I don't care) but sometimes I wonder whether ST wasn't paid by the R team to divert attention (by pointing fingers at PR and only at PR) from the REAL killer.
Hey,if you NEED to point fingers at someone in our family at least point fingers at the wrong person.

I can't get over this:their investigators were hired to prepare JOHNS defence,not PR's.Clear and simple and very telling.After finding this out,how can you be 100% sure that PDI?Especially if you're part of LE.

 

[BBB167893]

Will try to explain it :

Let's say for the sake of argument that all their handwriting experts claimed PR 100% wrote the RN.Okay.
But on the other hand you have another experts who claim she was sexually abused prior to the murder.

What's more relevant re who the killer is?
Who's most likely the killer,the one who wrote the note or the one who sexually abused her?

Excellent observation, maddy.

ST obviously gave JR the pass,just watch the LKL show.I will never agree with that and never understand that.There were 3 Ramseys in that home that night,not ONE.

I saw all right.

 

[Toltec]

I always said this....if JDI or BDI,they should send ST flowers and a bottle of wine every single week!

Call me nuts (I don't care) but sometimes I wonder whether ST wasn't paid by the R team to divert attention (by pointing fingers at PR and only at PR) from the REAL killer.
Hey,if you NEED to point fingers at someone in our family at least point fingers at the wrong person.

I can't get over this:their investigators were hired to prepare JOHNS defence,not PR's.Clear and simple and very telling.After finding this out,how can you be 100% sure that PDI?Especially if you're part of LE.

Steve Thomas paid by team ramsey?? No way, no how! The poor man ran himself to the ground trying to get justice. He got seriously ill before quitting the BPD. Didn't you read his resignation letter?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The one man who could've arrested PR gave up his badge. His position on the case. The opportunity for RDI to find justice for this child lost at that moment...

Or, maybe he was asked to leave after his, ah-hem, tabloid conversations?

 

[MurriFlower]

Steve Thomas paid by team ramsey?? No way, no how! The poor man ran himself to the ground trying to get justice. He got seriously ill before quitting the BPD. Didn't you read his resignation letter?

I thought someone said his illness was inherited?

 

[DeeDee249]

The one man who could've arrested PR gave up his badge. His position on the case. The opportunity for RDI to find justice for this child lost at that moment...

Or, maybe he was asked to leave after his, ah-hem, tabloid conversations?

Hunter had those same "tabloid conversations", remember? Jeff Shapiro played them against each other. When ST realized it, he shut Shapiro out. Hunter GLOWED at the idea of being part of the tabloid "investigation". I think he hoped they'd do his work for him- "out" the Rs so he wouldn't have to. This way he didn't have to worry about the higher-ups who were REALLY directing the investigation.

 

[madeleine]

Steve Thomas paid by team ramsey?? No way, no how! The poor man ran himself to the ground trying to get justice. He got seriously ill before quitting the BPD. Didn't you read his resignation letter?

I don't trust many players in this case,let's just say he's not one of those few I trust.

It doesn't matter if BDI,JDI,SFF or IDI.

If it's not PDI,ST did the killer a huge favour by fixating on PR like he did.

ML and ST,no difference in my mind.Same silly,biased mistakes.Not only that,but see how many people they convinced they are right.

Based on what??

Where's the evidence that PR killed JB?
Where's the evidence that the DNA owner killed JB?

 

[madeleine]

So maybe PR wrote the note.
Maybe an unknown person handled JB's clothes.
This is so weak anyway.
Even IF SO,doesn't mean one of them is the killer.
So where is the evidence re who KILLED JB?
All they got in the end is the possibility that PR and an unknown male were somehow involved in this.In the murder?In the cover up?In the staging?Who can tell?

But how reliable are handwriting analysis and possibly contaminated DNA?Did it help discover the killer so far?