Norway Norway - Isdalen, WhtFem 503UFNOR, multiple aliases, multilingual, 29 November 1970

[Professor Moriarty]

There were lots of displaced people at the end of WW2. People moved West to avoid the Russians advancing from the East. Opportunities to move to another country. Opportunities to reinvent yourself.

 

[ReDReq]

There were lots of displaced people at the end of WW2. People moved West to avoid the Russians advancing from the East. Opportunities to move to another country. Opportunities to reinvent yourself.

This is absolutely true. And despite a lot of effort, not everyone could be found. I recently read from newspapers (Sleuthing power unleashed haha.), that they even set points to various police stations, whom collected all the information available of those, whom are missing. Some also posted information about possible returnees and even fallen soldiers They also pointed, that some people could have gone missing even a decade go or more. Another sadder note was, that it was up to the friends and family often, to try and find them. As well as the authorities being annoyed about this, since it meddled with rebuilding and trying to re-establish farming as well as the routes between places. The devastation and destruction was huge, and entire families were lost.

Another note, there was a huge manhunt to out the Nazis (and other parties, including then the Soviets) throughout the world even. The families of the people taking part of the heinous acts could also become targets of assaults, which is why presuming new identities wasn't so uncommon either.

And yes, we know these trials for WW2 crimes still take place. We mustn't forget this.

There is multiple ways how Isdal Woman could play into this, and we've talked a lot here too, about how. I find the courier method intriguing, as there was a letter about this uncovered. Police thought it wasn't really for being a courier, but for something else.

And while the DNA profile is known, it's still problematic. Europe has less tools for mapping it out, than USA does (you cannot use databases like ancestry for example. All DNA profiles from another country needs to be requested separately and individually etc.). While Norway isn't part of the EU, it doesn't help it much either. Also some of the missing people might not have any DNA to compare to, if even files. Some countries might declare you dead at some point, and you might indeed be then completely lost to the history. And if police think you are runaway, they might not open that file in the first place.

 

[Sor Juana]

I find the courier method intriguing, as there was a letter about this uncovered. Police thought it wasn't really for being a courier, but for something else.

And while the DNA profile is known, it's still problematic. Europe has less tools for mapping it out, than USA does (you cannot use databases like ancestry for example. All DNA profiles from another country needs to be requested separately and individually etc.). While Norway isn't part of the EU, it doesn't help it much either. Also some of the missing people might not have any DNA to compare to, if even files.

RSBM. Would you be able to point me to a source for that detail?
A crime this violent suggests something much larger such as an unpaid sum of money which would explain why the killers not only killed the IW but tried to erase her very existence. That feels like mafia way...

Regarding the dna profile, scientists have narrowed down her maternal lineage to central Europe.

Meanwhile, isotope analysis of her teeth suggested she consumed water and food consistent with childhood in the Franco-German border area, particularly near Alsace or Bavaria. These breakthroughs drastically reduced the scope of the search.

Thanks to international collaboration and public genealogical databases, researchers have matched the Isdal Woman’s DNA to distant relatives in France. The leads are tenuous but promising. Investigators are now combing through old census records and immigration logs to build a family tree backward.

 

[Sor Juana]

That’s a strange reference: the Franco‑German border lies to the west, but Alsace and Bavaria are to the east of that part, so something doesn’t add up. Earlier publications mentioned Moravia and Hungary, and in that context Alsace and Bavaria do make sense because they sit in Central Europe. She likely moved to the Franco‑German border at the age of about 15 and began studies in French. The chemical "signature" of the water she drank while her teeth were forming (around age 7) matches most closely with the Nuremberg region. She had high-quality gold and ceramic crowns made in Germany. Recent advanced modelling has shown that her isotope profile also matches a few other "hotspots" in Central Europe, including Győr, Hungary. One of the fake addresses she used on a hotel form included a postal code that actually exists in Hungary.

 

[GracefulD1an]

RSBM. Would you be able to point me to a source for that detail?
A crime this violent suggests something much larger such as an unpaid sum of money which would explain why the killers not only killed the IW but tried to erase her very existence. That feels like mafia way...

Regarding the dna profile, scientists have narrowed down her maternal lineage to central Europe.


View attachment 657984

We found living relatives in France? And she may have spent time in Alsace?!?! I called those aspects. Looks like we are getting closer to identifying “Elisabeth”.

 

[ReDReq]

RSBM. Would you be able to point me to a source for that detail?
A crime this violent suggests something much larger such as an unpaid sum of money which would explain why the killers not only killed the IW but tried to erase her very existence. That feels like mafia way...

Regarding the dna profile, scientists have narrowed down her maternal lineage to central Europe.


View attachment 657984

I retraced and seems my translation was bit off, so it got mumbled with reference to messaged sent in regard of various items in her possessions, during the investigations with no results. All from the police report.

 

[ReDReq]

We found living relatives in France? And she may have spent time in Alsace?!?! I called those aspects. Looks like we are getting closer to identifying “Elisabeth”.

This was from one of the isotope analysis done to her, regarding her most likely place of birth (Nuremberg, Germany) and being relocated to the mentioned region. I have not heard any news of living relatives being found.

 

[GracefulD1an]

Oh…based on the statement of distant relatives I assumed they found living distant relatives of hers. Guess I got too excited.

 

[ReDReq]

Oh…based on the statement of distant relatives I assumed they found living distant relatives of hers. Guess I got too excited.

let's have fingers crossed this would come to light. If we can find some superduper far possible relatives for Ötzi (the frozen man of the Tyrolean mountains), then finding some for her shouldn't be impossible!

 

[Sor Juana]

Oh…based on the statement of distant relatives I assumed they found living distant relatives of hers. Guess I got too excited.

Yep, distant in time, not space. Probably just a tiny bit of dna overlap from some distant common ancestor, too far back to call them relatives. They said they found a few distant matches in France; if it’s that old like GGG‑grandparent, you’d expect similar cousins all over Europe, but only France got mentioned. Which is interesting because the IW looks German to me, from southern Germany, I mean the face, not any forensic stuff. For now, just watch-this-space, hopefully there’ll be news soon. JMO

 

[Sor Juana]

Could a more precise picture of her be drawn as her DNA is known ?
Maybe someone could recognise her.

Technically, it might be possible, who knows, but it depends on who undertakes it, whether it’s part of a project, and if it falls within the scope of such an investigation. I’m not sure what the current status is. LE won’t pursue it further since the deadline for a murder investigation has long passed, leaving it a cold case with no prospect of reopening. One can only hope that researchers or an interest group working on the case, even if amateur, might eventually make progress and finally uncover the woman’s name. JMO