Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

[PatLaurel]

If that doesn't work you have the right to ask your MP for assistance in dealing with public authorities. Not sure how the specifics of classified cases work, but an MP being involved might help.

I've been in touch with the journalist who leads VG's coverage of this case, I'll write a follow up to him today.

Maybe you could invite him here? He is the best person to answer our questions.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Wow, OK. I started reading this thread about three weeks ago but life intervened. Coming back to it, I see I've missed all the fireworks, lol.

39 pages in, I'm not sure anyone cares anymore about the way the deceased signed the register, but I'm going to chuck my opinion in anyway, and say that imo it was not signed Fergate, but Fairgate, as also typed by the receptionist or whoever took the original booking. I'm not sure who originally read it as Fergate (it predates this thread as far as I can see), but I think they were wrong.

I'm very interested in handwriting and reckon I've got a good eye for it as I've done a lot of research with genealogical documents. If you read the second letter as an e, it goes completely against the slant of the rest of the signature and is nothing like the e at the end of the name. I'm positive that it's an a, albeit a lazy unclosed one, followed by a lazy, half absent i. If you read it that way, it matches the second a. The r doesn't look altogether natural to me, but since the r of Fergate/Fairgate isn't in dispute I'm not sure that's of interest here. (Ignore the red arrows on the image - I've copied it from earlier in the thread when someone else was discussing the addresses.)

Whether this makes any difference to anything is another matter. 'Fairgate' itself is undoubtedly an alias too. I think that a great deal of the 'information' available about the deceased is probably unreliable tbh. I've read with increasing incredulity the discussion of the photographs over the last 10 pages or so. I don't want to get into the argument about the gun, as I know nothing about guns, but it's pretty clear that the crime scene photo that was released has been doctored when compared with the evidence photo of the retained gun. Likewise, it's clear to me that there have been irregularities at the crime scene. I'm thinking particularly of the missing leaflet holder, for instance, but that may well be the least of it. Once you accept that, I think you have to view almost all of the data that has been shared publicly with a slightly cynical eye, so I would start to question even basic biographical data, like her height, eye colour, etc. 'Black hair, possibly dyed' makes no sense at all, as hair continues to grow post mortem and it would be obvious in short order whether it was dyed or not. It's as if her data form has been filled in by someone who was making it up as they went along.

So if this woman is to be identified at all, I think it will be by DNA. It seems to me that LE or someone higher than them was motivated to obfuscate her identity at the time, but that may no longer be the case. Whether the truth of what happened to her would then still be considered sensitive remains to be seen. In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not on Team Suicide.

I'm appending a link about paleography and also some about forensic handwriting analysis, not that it's directly relevant, in case anyone fancies some bedtime reading.

http://wallaceletters.info/sites/wallaceletters.info/files/NHM_Palaeography_Guide_2014.pdf

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/oct2009/review/2009_10_review02.htm

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...H-9OVwEjxMh5kaMcxxVHHVClQ&nossl=1&oi=scholarr

 

[JuicyLucy]

I'm gonna link to that pic again, as it was glitchy on the last post:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/iden-artboard_1-png.293114/

 

[JuicyLucy]

Does anyone have a theory on this? It looks like a watch or sunglasses to me, sitting on top of a dirty towel on top of a fresh dressing gown in the bathroom. Note that the woman's watch was found on her body, so it can't be her watch

As for this, I think what you're looking at are just folds in a towel that was used without unfolding it properly first and then put back on the pile still in its folded shape. I've tried to replicate it to show what I mean, although the lighting's all wrong.

Source: my towels, my kitchen table

 

[Mrs Marple]

Recently, "Beth Doe" who was found murdered in Pennsylvania in 1976 was identified. Isotopes, etc indicated she was Eastern European, but it turned out she was actually a 15 year-old girl from New Jersey.

Thinking about the address again, I wonder if they have the birthplace of "Jennifer" correct?

Just to gently point out, all Americans except indigenous people will have dna from a different geographical area.

Some random thoughts whilst reading this fascinating thread:

This is just a few short years after the reunification of Germany. If she was from the other side of the wall l suspect people went missing on the regular and no one would bat an eyelid out of fear.

Early to mid 90s was grunge era, although shoes don't fit. Wearing those awful hold ups was common.

Being so...un-missed...is troubling. I wonder if she was a vulnerable person who was taken advantage of.

She exchanged money and was out a lot. Was she sight seeing? If she was a spy l think her address, ID, money would all have been full proof. Unless she decided to go rogue last minute.

Lois could have been a relative. Husband doesn't make sense if they were in separate rooms. The while act of checking in with a false name and address suggests something nefarious.

We could do with a timeline really.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I have had another thought about the eye witness account from the check in desk..there was a really long queue. At 10.30pm? Doesn't that suggest a flight had recently landed?

Also the autopsy photos do not show the head injury so they had a bit of photoshop skills back then.

Edit about her hair..l wonder if she kept it short so she could get wigs on if needed. Also it's very odd that the security guard arrived right when a shot was fired - that is potentially staged.

 

[Mrs Marple]

The spies who loved me: my dad, the Stasi agent

Little snippet about the Stasi targeting vulnerable children

We talk about Marquardt. “Her parental home was a complete wreckage,” Roth says. “She never had a real family… the conditions were there for excellent results.” It is unsettling to hear someone state so directly that the Stasi targeted vulnerable minors.

Maybe she and her companion were on the run because of what they knew. Her companion may have fled in fear.

From this article Mystery at the Oslo Plaza

Mr F said "I stayed there from Friday to Saturday. When I checked out, they told me about the lady who died. I’ve stayed at thousands of hotels, so for me this was no big thing," he says.

And JF had partially digested food in her stomach from a meal ordered 24 hours before? I wonder if she died the night before. The gunshot was apparently after the security guard knocked so could have been creating a narrative to fit a story.

 

[GatorFL]

I have had another thought about the eye witness account from the check in desk..there was a really long queue. At 10.30pm? Doesn't that suggest a flight had recently landed?

Also the autopsy photos do not show the head injury so they had a bit of photoshop skills back then.

Edit about her hair..l wonder if she kept it short so she could get wigs on if needed. Also it's very odd that the security guard arrived right when a shot was fired - that is potentially staged.

The mortician probably repaired the entry wound.

 

[GatorFL]

The spies who loved me: my dad, the Stasi agent

Little snippet about the Stasi targeting vulnerable children

We talk about Marquardt. “Her parental home was a complete wreckage,” Roth says. “She never had a real family… the conditions were there for excellent results.” It is unsettling to hear someone state so directly that the Stasi targeted vulnerable minors.

Maybe she and her companion were on the run because of what they knew. Her companion may have fled in fear.

From this article Mystery at the Oslo Plaza

Mr F said "I stayed there from Friday to Saturday. When I checked out, they told me about the lady who died. I’ve stayed at thousands of hotels, so for me this was no big thing," he says.

And JF had partially digested food in her stomach from a meal ordered 24 hours before? I wonder if she died the night before. The gunshot was apparently after the security guard knocked so could have been creating a narrative to fit a story.

First responders would have known immediately if she had died 24 hours before.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Well something doesn't add up there. Why order food and eat it 24 hours later?

 

[Beekarina]

Re: "Mrs Marple, post: 16800687, member: 233065"]Just to gently point out, all Americans except indigenous people will have dna from a different geographical area."

Unless I have completely misunderstood how isotope analysis works--which is possible--this shouldn't matter? Where your grandparents came from shouldn't effect the strontium map of your teeth, or the oxygen values of your hair, right?

 

[Beekarina]

It would be helpful to know if any of the hotel rooms had a mini-fridge. I don't believe it has been answered in any of the documentaries or news articles, but it makes "Jennifer" eating the food the following day a bit less bizarre.

If she did in fact eat the food when she ordered it, and died shortly after, this is additional evidence pointing to a weird cover up of some sort, obviously involving many people.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Re: "Mrs Marple, post: 16800687, member: 233065"]Just to gently point out, all Americans except indigenous people will have dna from a different geographical area."

Unless I have completely misunderstood how isotope analysis works--which is possible--this shouldn't matter? Where your grandparents came from shouldn't effect the strontium map of your teeth, or the oxygen values of your hair, right?

The teeth evidence was different to what the original post referred to.

 

[Mireille]

It would be helpful to know if any of the hotel rooms had a mini-fridge. I don't believe it has been answered in any of the documentaries or news articles, but it makes "Jennifer" eating the food the following day a bit less bizarre.

If she did in fact eat the food when she ordered it, and died shortly after, this is additional evidence pointing to a weird cover up of some sort, obviously involving many people.

The article does reference a "minibar" which would be small and to keep things cold.

If you look to the doors underneath the desk, the symbol to the left is a drink, which would most likely be the minibar, and the other one, I am not certain what is.

Source

 

[GatorFL]

Well something doesn't add up there. Why order food and eat it 24 hours later?

Nobody knows. One of the mysteries in this case.

 

[GatorFL]

The article does reference a "minibar" which would be small and to keep things cold.

If you look to the doors underneath the desk, the symbol to the left is a drink, which would most likely be the minibar, and the other one, I am not certain what is.

Source

Yes, I believe the minibar is referenced in some articles.

 

[PatLaurel]

The article does reference a "minibar" which would be small and to keep things cold.

If you look to the doors underneath the desk, the symbol to the left is a drink, which would most likely be the minibar, and the other one, I am not certain what is.

Source

I think the other one is used to store glasses and room temperature drinks and snacks.

Radisson Blu mini-bar. - Picture of Radisson Blu Hotel, Hamburg - Tripadvisor

 

[Beekarina]

The article does reference a "minibar" which would be small and to keep things cold.

If you look to the doors underneath the desk, the symbol to the left is a drink, which would most likely be the minibar, and the other one, I am not certain what is.

Source

Thank you! So, it is a strange choice, but it is technically possible "Jennifer" put her snack in the mini bar and ate it Saturday. Makes a bit more sense than leaving meat and potato salad out overnight and eating it the next day. Not that many things make sense here, but I can't figure out why you would want to eat food that would almost certainly taste and smell bad?

 

[Hollyllennoco]

Hey, new here. Been obsessed with this case for a while. I used a software with Jennifer’s post mortem photos. I also added some hair and makeup. Here are some examples to illustrate what UID may have looked like. I felt like maybe she hasn’t been identified because the original composites looked cartoony.

 

[noodlefreak]

Hey, new here. Been obsessed with this case for a while. I used a software with Jennifer’s post mortem photos. I also added some hair and makeup. Here are some examples to illustrate what UID may have looked like. I felt like maybe she hasn’t been identified because the original composites looked cartoony.

welcome! very good work!!!!