PA - infant Leon Katz murdered, twin injured, allegedly by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024 #2

  • #121
I’d really like to see the interrogation video and NV’s demeanor both before and after her admissions.

Why did she go back to her AirBnb after medics came to get Leon? She had been a longtime friend of the parents of LK, but didn’t go to the hospital with concern for the newborn and in support of his parents after the alleged accident.

What is NK’s current position about how LK was injured?
6-week old infants don’t just leap out of infant seats.

JMO
I agree that seeing the interrogation video would help everyone understand her demeanor, especially given what the defense lays out in the omnibus motion. According to the filings, Nicole had around 3 hours of sleep, was jet-lagged, and then was kept in a locked room for nearly 13 hours, often shivering, given only snacks and coffee, and repeatedly breaking down in tears before any admission was made . That kind of physical and emotional exhaustion can seriously affect how someone reacts, speaks, or even remembers events.

As for leaving the Airbnb instead of going to the hospital the filings show she had already been awake most of the night, was told police needed to speak to her, and was immediately taken from the Airbnb, her phone confiscated, and placed in custody. She wasn’t “free” to go anywhere after EMS left detectives had her locked in the cruiser by 6:07 a.m. and then locked in an interview room until 7:30 p.m. .

Regarding “her position” on what happened: the motion makes it clear she maintained throughout the first long interrogation that any injury to L.K. was accidental, and only later made statements after extreme fatigue, isolation, and exposure to misleading claims (including about “cameras in the apartment”) that the defense argues were coercive .

I agree infants don’t leap out of seats. But whether this was an accident, a medical issue, a misinterpretation of injuries, or something intentional is exactly what the trial and the medical experts will need to sort out. Right now there are still a lot of unanswered questions on both sides
 
  • #122
Thanks - I plan to read up on the cases you noted. Interesting fact I just found out- Amanda Brumfield is the estranged daughter of Billy Bob Thornton.
i had never heard of the Amanda Brumfield case either....
so ended up down another rabbit hole finding out ALL info about Billy Bob's 4 kids and 6 marriages!!!
 
  • #123
Northernthinker, do you think multiple doctors could not tell the difference between a circumcision infection and an acute injury?
(ETA: Asking because I am not familiar with this at all.)

Also the idea that she probably would not have quickly brought an injury she caused to the parents' attention is wishful thinking IMO. Some people enjoy seeing the results of their actions on everyone and they enjoy fooling others. Those cases actually abound.
 
  • #124
According to the filings, Nicole had around 3 hours of sleep, was jet-lagged, and then was kept in a locked room for nearly 13 hours, often shivering, given only snacks and coffee, and repeatedly breaking down in tears
^Sounds like one of my typical work days. And I am waaaay older than NK. But, point taken. She was certainly under major stress being interrogated by LE about a potential infant homicide.

JMO
 
  • #125
^Sounds like one of my typical work days. And I am waaaay older than NK. But, point taken. She was certainly under major stress being interrogated by LE about a potential infant homicide.

JMO
I would think most baby killers are under stress. I think she is lucky that the police got to her first.
 
  • #126
I would think most baby killers are under stress. I think she is lucky that the police got to her first.
Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. She isn’t yet a killer of anything
 
  • #127
According to the filings, Nicole had around 3 hours of sleep, was jet-lagged, and then was kept in a locked room for nearly 13 hours, often shivering, given only snacks and coffee, and repeatedly breaking down in tears before any admission was made . That kind of physical and emotional exhaustion can seriously affect how someone reacts, speaks, or even remembers events.

Why didn't she sleep on the airplane/get more sleep before visiting?

If true: does "only snacks and coffee" violate her rights? I'm thinking they didn't, or they would have brought in more food. But it's interesting if they didn't bring in more food to gain her trust.

Kept in a room for 13 hours being questioned is not beyond what I would expect if a baby died under my care. However -- I would expect the right to use a restroom when needed.

Agree the exhaustion may greatly affect someone being interrogated. But you could just as equally argue it could cause someone to think, okay, I'm just going to tell the whole truth now and give up the facade.
 
  • #128
Northernthinker, do you think multiple doctors could not tell the difference between a circumcision infection and an acute injury?
(ETA: Asking because I am not familiar with this at all.)

Also the idea that she probably would not have quickly brought an injury she caused to the parents' attention is wishful thinking IMO. Some people enjoy seeing the results of their actions on everyone and they enjoy fooling others. Those cases actually abound.
misinterpretation of pediatric genital findings has happened before, especially when infection, irritation, or normal post-procedure changes are involved. It’s not that “multiple doctors can’t tell the difference,” but that even specialists sometimes disagree about what is acute trauma versus something medical or benign. That’s documented in other child-injury cases.

On the second point, I’d be cautious about assuming motives. Extreme cases exist, yes, but they’re not the default. You can’t infer someone’s psychology from the fact that rare, high-profile offenders exist. Each case has to be evaluated individually, not compared to the most sensational examples.

That’s really all I’m saying — medical interpretation isn’t always black-and-white, and motives aren’t as simple as assuming the worst.
 
  • #129
On the second point, I’d be cautious about assuming motives. Extreme cases exist, yes

I very much disagree that the perp reporting the crime exists as "extreme." I think it's not uncommon in murder cases. Either to start "watching the show" or to try to appear innocent.

Sometimes the perp will "find" the victim, for example, and then sit back and watch it all. Or quickly report it as an accident or a mystery. It's not rare.

And if someone actually "enjoys" watching their victim suffer - which unfortunately a lot of murderers do - they would enjoy watching the relatives suffer. It's a very uncomfortable topic. But these are murder cases. MOO.
 
  • #130
I want to share a perspective that I don’t think has been fully discussed here yet. After reading both the TribLive article and the full Omnibus Motion, I’m honestly not convinced that the statements attributed to Nicole should be taken at face value. At the very least, I think this interrogation has a lot of the same features that have shown up again and again in well-documented false confession cases. A few things that really stood out to me:

1. The interrogation was extremely long

We’re not talking about a 1–2 hour interview. According to the motion, she was in police custody for around 13 hours. Almost all proven false confessions come after long, drawn-out interrogations, especially when the person is exhausted, scared, or mentally vulnerable. After 6 hours, reliability drops off a cliff. At 13 hours? It’s a huge red flag.

2. She invoked her rights, and questioning continued

This is important. The motion says she asked to stop and asked for a lawyer. That alone can taint everything that comes afterward. When someone is deprived of their rights and still questioned, the odds of a reliable, voluntary confession go down dramatically.

3. The “we have cameras” claim looks like a bluff

The article treats this as if police had damning surveillance. But according to the motion, the “cameras” were baby monitors. Police are allowed to lie during interrogations, and they often do. False confession cases are full of “we have evidence you don’t know about” tactics.

4. The emotional collapse matters

The motion describes crying, distress, isolation, cold temperatures, long gaps with no human contact, panic, etc. This is the textbook psychological environment where false confessions happen. Most people imagine they’d be strong under pressure. But every major false confession case involves someone who thought the same — until they broke down.

5. The most extreme statements came only at the end. This is almost exactly the pattern seen in cases like:
  • Melissa Calusinski
  • Brendan Dassey
  • the Central Park 5
The early hours involve denials or confusion. The dramatic, self-incriminating material shows up after exhaustion, fear, and hopelessness take over. This is not my opinion — this is a documented pattern in forensic psychology.

6. The “childhood harming kids” narrative is a big red flag

A lot of people took this part of the article very literally. But dramatic, emotional “origin story” admissions often show up in false confessions because the person is:
  • overwhelmed
  • trying to give interrogators something
  • accepting suggested narratives
  • losing their grip under fatigue
These kinds of statements almost never emerge in the first hour. They emerge at hour 10, 11, 12 — just like here.

7. The Brooke Skylar Richardson comparison is key

That was a case I followed closely, and it has some striking similarities:
  • young woman
  • vulnerable mental state
  • long interrogation
  • misleading claims by investigators
  • statements that snowballed into a so-called “confession”
  • a public convinced she was a monster
  • later evidence showing the confession was wrong
The public narrative was completely different from what experts later agreed on. Her supposed “confession” didn’t hold up in court at all. I’m not saying this case is identical — but the parallels are hard to ignore.

8. Confessions alone are not reliable evidence

People forget that about 20–25% of exonerations involve false confessions. And many of those confessions were as detailed and emotional as this one sounds. Human beings can be pushed into saying things that don’t reflect reality — it’s uncomfortable to accept, but it’s true
I looked up the Brooke Skylar Richardson case and I don’t reallly see any ‘parallels’.
I think, in the interest of fairness, I might be too kind to Nicole — perhaps because I just can’t see that a person of her character would do this, and the case has echoes of other notable exonerations in the past. I could absolutely be wrong, but the evidence must be rigorously tested first, and she deserves the best possible defense.
I’m just curious whether you have personal knowledge of Nicole? You mention her character and I am unsure how you can determine someone’s character from the snippets of info found online about someone you don’t know. I don’t recall anyone coming forward to say she’s a great person or would not hurt a fly etc…..
 
  • #131
On the day of the confession, Nicole met with her lawyer mid afternoon and her parents late afternoon ( from the events listed in the omnibus) and it wasn’t long after that she ‘confessed’. This looks to me like she felt pressure within herself- her parents were going to find out about the ‘camera footage’ and the events leading to a baby dying were going to be revealed. I think that’s why she made the statements she did.
 
  • #132
Northernthinker, do you think multiple doctors could not tell the difference between a circumcision infection and an acute injury?
(ETA: Asking because I am not familiar with this at all.)
misinterpretation of pediatric genital findings has happened before, especially when infection, irritation, or normal post-procedure changes are involved. It’s not that “multiple doctors can’t tell the difference,” but that even specialists sometimes disagree about what is acute trauma versus something medical or benign. That’s documented in other child-injury cases.

As a mother of two grown circumcised sons, and one of my sons actually had to have a follow up snip, MOO is I think the parents would've noticed if it was a circumcisional infection. It's not that confusing to determine an infection from an injury, is it? An infection would be easily noticed by the parents, if they had been changing diapers, noticed certainly before they had to rush off to the emergency room because all of a sudden there were what looked like genital injuries. Even if the parents weren't able to determine their twin's genital area, surely one or several doctors would be able to tell the difference without confusion between injuries versus circumcision complications.

All my own opinions here.

snipped... Each case has to be evaluated individually, not compared to the most sensational examples.

It is good to see discussion of this case going on here. I agree with you, we need much more solid evidence and info on this specific case. On this thread, we're looking at this case not what happened in other cases. Bringing up other cases may confuse people that didn't follow the cases you did. So far, it isn't being presented that one twin had a genital infection and the other died by an accidental fall. The charges are very serious.

Sure, if NV is convicted it cannot be based solely on a confession obtained under pressure. I can't imagine why NV allegedly supplied any of that background confession of her compulsion to hurt children. I was shocked it even has been released to the public, but supposedly she offered such statements to LE. Sleep deprived or whatever, apparently those words came out of her mouth.

It does sound like a confession after she thought what she did to baby LK would be seen on a video. Doesn't matter if LE lied about having a video, she thought there was a video, and it sounds like she started confessing that she did shake, she did hurt, she did drop the baby because maybe LE had already seen it on a video, so she wouldn't be able to deny some of her actions and started explaining her compulsion. Just trying to explain why those words would come out of her mouth.

This is just MOO, and I want to remain open to hearing all the evidence before deeming NV guilty of these most serious charges.
 
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  • #133
Absolutely. Having watched many legal cases in the past that turned out to be very different from what was first reported in the media, I am very cautious about initial reports. I am also extremely strong on the presumption of innocence and the need to find guilt beyond any and all reasonable doubt.

I myself am very skeptical about the medical reports. Child-abuse pediatricians and doctors have the unfortunate habit of becoming zealots and inquisitors. I also see that the pediatrician in this case, Dr. Jennifer Wolford, has a history of overdiagnosis. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a second opinion completely reverses the cause of death.

I think, in the interest of fairness, I might be too kind to Nicole — perhaps because I just can’t see that a person of her character would do this, and the case has echoes of other notable exonerations in the past. I could absolutely be wrong, but the evidence must be rigorously tested first, and she deserves the best possible defense.

All we can do is wait

I looked up the Brooke Skylar Richardson case and I don’t reallly see any ‘parallels’.

I’m just curious whether you have personal knowledge of Nicole? You mention her character and I am unsure how you can determine someone’s character from the snippets of info found online about someone you don’t know. I don’t recall anyone coming forward to say she’s a great person or would not hurt a fly etc…..
It struck me too, unless it means an educated, attractive, wealthy person would be unlikely to commit a crime or murder? We know that is not true!

It’s common sense to me. Those babies were fine before she was there. And then one dead and one injured. Two babies is much harder to discount it wasn’t allegedly her.

IMO.
 
  • #134
Thanks everyone, a lot of thoughtful replies overnight, and I’d like to respond to the broader themes rather than going point by point. I’m currently travelling at the moment, so it may be difficult for me to reply quickly.

First, on the motive discussion: I completely accept that some offenders do report the very crimes they committed. That absolutely happens. My point is narrower: you can’t assume a psychological profile in this specific case based on what much more extreme offenders have done in other cases. Motive shouldn’t be reverse engineered from unrelated examples; it has to come from the evidence in this one.

On the medical side: I’m not saying doctors “can’t tell the difference” between injury and infection. What I’m saying is that even trained specialists sometimes reach different conclusions, especially in pediatric cases where findings can overlap or be misinterpreted. That’s not an insult to anyone; it’s a documented reality in multiple child injury cases. Whether that applies here is exactly why independent review is important.

Regarding the confession: some posters feel it reflects guilt, others see pressure and panic. Reasonable people can disagree, but it’s undeniable that long, stressful interrogations, especially when someone believes there is supposedly damning evidence against them, can produce statements that aren’t reliable. Courts across the country have recognized this. I’m not declaring anything definitive; I’m saying it has to be scrutinized carefully, not treated as self proving.

On the question of whether I know Nicole, no, I don’t know her personally. But I have read comments and posts from people who do, and every one of them has spoken positively about her character and her behavior around children. That’s not proof of anything, of course, but it is relevant context when people ask where my perspective comes from.

Beyond that, I’ve also learned a bit more about her background in other ways that I’m not going to discuss publicly. Those details are absolutely confidential and won’t be shared here, but they have contributed to why I’m approaching this case with caution rather than assuming the worst.

Finally, I agree with those who’ve said this case can’t be resolved by comparing it to other cases. I referenced them only to illustrate patterns, not to claim this one is identical. Ultimately, it will come down to the medical findings, the reliability of the statements, and the overall quality of the evidence, not assumptions and not worst case analogies.

I’m committed to keeping an open mind until everything is on the table
 
  • #135
First, on the motive discussion: I completely accept that some offenders do report the very crimes they committed. That absolutely happens. My point is narrower: you can’t assume a psychological profile in this specific case based on what much more extreme offenders have done in other cases.

JMO here, with all due respect, that goes both ways when looking at this case only. Using other wrongful conviction cases, and those defendants, or using other wrongful medical evaluations that were mistaken in other cases to support something in this case is just as much a type of assumption that isn't specific to this case.

Okay, she's not like others, but some of the psychological profile of NV may have come from her, out of her own mouth. Did she not offer a glimpse of her psychological profile when she supposedly shared the compulsion to hurt children and the sadistic pleasure she copped to, if what is reported came out of her mouth. I'm referring to statements, they say she said, you can read in the post below.
Notice of Privacy
“From a very, very young age, I don’t know what it is, but I always had this urge — almost like a compulsion I can’t control — to hurt kids.”
....

“This is the first time this happened as an adult,” Virzi said. “There’s some weird drive in me that wants to see kids in pain.”
....

Causing pain, Virzi said, made her feel “satisfied.”
....

“So when I was alone with (Leon) I shook him a couple times — hard. And I dropped him a couple times — hard.” BBM
^^^ Some of the statements she made about herself are in the above. I know some may want to excuse her confession as coming from a exhausted person interrogated for too long, perhaps, but there so happens to be one injured and another deceased child.
On the medical side: I’m not saying doctors “can’t tell the difference” between injury and infection. What I’m saying is that even trained specialists sometimes reach different conclusions,

I can see trained specialists maybe reaching different conclusions about head injuries, but I sure expect them all to agree on what an injury looks like versus an infection in the genital area. However, I agree with you that may not be the case with head injuries.
...It’s common sense to me. Those babies were fine before she was there. And then one dead and one injured. Two babies is much harder to discount it wasn’t allegedly her.

Yes, it does sound like both infants were doing just fine before she was there. There being two events tied to NV will be hard for any defense to discount.

All MOO and thoughts.
 
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