PA - infant Leon Katz murdered, twin injured, allegedly by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024 #2

  • #161
I envision the bouncer (maybe bassinet word used) to be something like this but again, highly unlikely an infant this age to fall out of it unless used incorrectly imo
And even IF I literally pushed it off a kitchen counter onto the kitchen floor? That is NOT going to cause the baby's death. Period. A few injuries, absolutely. But the injuries described of baby L? Nope. Not by a fall from a bouncy!

After reading that sole triblive article
(https:// triblive. com/local/i-heard-some-kind-of-crack-woman-admits-in-police-interrogation-video-to-killing-best-friends-baby )

about what NV's statements were after the incident, I am surprised no other news outlets are covering this at ALL. Not one content creator.

Affluenza may very well reign Supreme once again in this case.
 
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  • #162
IMO a bassinet would be near impossible for an infant this age to fall. Generally infant bassinets if any sort have solid surrounding mesh or some sort of something and are either not raised or raised quite a bit. Maybe adjustable to that height? But again without an equipment malfunction seems super unlikely to me unless propped up inappropriately

I envision the bouncer (maybe bassinet word used) to be something like this but again, highly unlikely an infant this age to fall out of it unless used incorrectly imo
View attachment 628690View attachment 628691

Infants generally learn to roll over at 4-7 months. IMO, it's extremely unlikely that a 6-week-old would fall out of one of those low, reclining baby seats. I had read a little about this case when it first happened. Just reading a little about it now, I wondered if it was possible that a parent or another person had injured the child, and then left him with the babysitter to cast blame on the babysitter. If that had happened, the babysitter might have noticed the child in distress and called 911, but then there would have been no need for a "story" about the baby falling.
 
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  • #163
These babies were 6 months old. And according to this article, he fell from a bouncing chair (some places also say bassinet), 18 inches high.

They were actually six WEEKS old, not six months.

Even more helpless and less likely to be capable of wriggling out of a bouncy chair, and definitely not from a bassinet, which has sides.

They don’t have the strength or coordination at that age to affect much of anything.

And the doctors say the head injury was forceful. No six-week old could throw himself out of anywhere with any force.

An adult did this. The adult with them was NV. They were both fine until NV was alone with them.

For me the connecting the dots is clear that NV harmed both boys, with intent.

JMO and the facts that have been revealed.
 
  • #164
...I envision the bouncer (maybe bassinet word used) to be something like this but again, highly unlikely an infant this age to fall out of it unless used incorrectly imo...

My question was more specific to whether infants that age should be put in a bouncy chair at all. That's what I was asking you. My concern is their neck muscles are still pretty wobbly at that age.

Thank You @TMich6811 for posting photos of possible ones considered baby chairs, one is called a Baby Rocker, so maybe different than a bouncer. Definitely bouncy chair designs have changed dramatically over the years, changed a lot since my kids were babies. If it's more like that Rocker maybe it'd be okay to use at 6 wks.

The term bassinet calls up images of a totally different apparatus in my memory, and apparently they remain close in design going by the term bassinet.

older bassinet
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. . .
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ETA- I forgot to include this @TMich6811. This is a Jolly Jumper that's been around for 75 yrs., but at one time you hung it from a doorway. Recommended for babies 4-12 mos. and up to 28 lbs. IMO, whoever is caring for the child has something to do with how safe it is, leaving the room is not advised.
 
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  • #165
My question was more specific to whether infants that age should be put in a bouncy chair at all. That's what I was asking you. My concern is their neck muscles are still pretty wobbly at that age.

Thank You @TMich6811 for posting photos of possible ones considered baby chairs, one is called a Baby Rocker, so maybe different than a bouncer. Bouncy chair designs have changed dramatically over the years, changed a lot since my kids were babies. If it's more like that Rocker maybe it'd be okay to use at 6 wks.

The term bassinet calls up images of a totally different apparatus in my memory, and apparently they remain close in design going by the term bassinet.

older bassinet
View attachment 628696 . . .View attachment 628697
Definitely agree that bassinets are the same ol

I think bouncers can be termed based on person. All 3 of mine would have been in that type of bouncer as new borns but not a jumper, is this like you were thinking maybe?
 

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  • #166
...It’s unclear why she stated on the 911 call that the baby was in a bassinet while the complaint refers to a bouncer seat.

My guess would be she doesn't know much about babies, 🚼 or their furniture names. She isn't a parent, but a full time student. I doubt she's spent a great deal of time 🍼 caring for children, thankfully, or shopping for baby furniture.
 
  • #167
I think bouncers can be termed based on person. All 3 of mine would have been in that type of bouncer as new borns but not a jumper, is this like you were thinking maybe?

The pics ads you posted look more like the design of those baby walkers, but I guess the ones in the pic have that piece where the baby's feet push up to bounce? Those I would not put a 6 wk. old baby in.

I think the story is fabricated anyways. The injuries may not perhaps have come from any baby in a chair. BUT I sure do find myself wanting to hear what the parents will say about what was normal in their household with the infants, and what type of baby chair they had, and their take on how competent NV was with the babies. Why did they feel comfortable to leave this out of town guest with little LK? Was NV creating an emergency and urging them out to the ER assuring them she'd care for LK?
 
  • #168
Are we talking perhaps about NV not just dropping the baby, but maybe forcibly throwing him headfirst at the floor?
 
  • #169
Are we talking perhaps about NV not just dropping the baby, but maybe forcibly throwing him headfirst at the floor?
Isn't that basically what she said she did? Maybe I'm mixing up cases.
 
  • #170
  • #171
Are we talking perhaps about NV not just dropping the baby, but maybe forcibly throwing him headfirst at the floor?
From her now-contested admission.

While she thought she’d get to spend time with her friend, Virzi told detectives, “I kind of grew angry because I was being put to nanny work.

“Something about that built up a lot of anger in me.”

“So when I was alone with (Leon) I shook him a couple times — hard. And I dropped him a couple times — hard.”

Virzi said she also flipped the infant upside down on the bathroom tile floor. “I heard some kind of crack.”

“Something just came over me I couldn’t control,” Virzi said. “I’m telling you this because I can’t keep lying about it.”

 
  • #172
I really meant as hard as she could. :confused:
This is nauseating but these are her own words on record by police. From the triblive.com article:

Trigger ⚠️ warning. It's horrifying. She moved over to the bathroom.... where there was tile flooring.

I'd like to know how admissible these statements are IF she mentioned wanting a lawyer at some point before she started talking more.

**********

"So when I was alone with (Leon) I shook him a couple times — hard. And I dropped him a couple times — hard.”

Virzi said she also flipped the infant upside down on the bathroom tile floor. “I heard some kind of crack.”

“Something just came over me I couldn’t control,” Virzi said. “I’m telling you this because I can’t keep lying about it.”

“I don’t want to hurt anyone any more,” Virzi said. “I know the best thing is for me to go away — or maybe worse.”
 
  • #173
From her now-contested admission.

While she thought she’d get to spend time with her friend, Virzi told detectives, “I kind of grew angry because I was being put to nanny work.
“Something about that built up a lot of anger in me.”

“So when I was alone with (Leon) I shook him a couple times — hard. And I dropped him a couple times — hard.”

Virzi said she also flipped the infant upside down on the bathroom tile floor. “I heard some kind of crack.”

“Something just came over me I couldn’t control,” Virzi said. “I’m telling you this because I can’t keep lying about it.”


This post is all MOO.
Her first statement makes me angry at her. What did she think the visit to her friend's would be like when she knew very well they just had TWINS only 6 wks. ago, and would not have time to amuse her. A nuisance that she visited and expected them to cater to her visit at that particular time.

The very fact that she took a trip to see them at that specific time is questionable, in light of her possible compulsion to hurt children. If those words came out of her mouth, she was aware of said compulsion, and rushed to go visit that family with the little defenseless babies. Why visit then? What is she complaining about being used for nanny work. She hadn't spent all that much time with them, and within a few days of her being there she was already feeling that kind of resentment, and rage to hurt the babies? Couldn't control it? What kind of excuse is that because she needs to realize that is not going to fly as a mental illness defense. What she described is bluntly said killing a baby.
 
  • #174
Oh wow. I hadn't heard the bathroom bit before. Or the shaking. I really don't believe she made a false confession - in her position surely any lying would be to make things sound better for her, not worse. I am starting to think that it's possible that she began planning this as soon as she heard sbout the pregnancy. :confused:
 
  • #175
I'd like to know how admissible these statements are IF she mentioned wanting a lawyer at some point before she started talking more.

Around 8:30 a.m., Curtis told Virzi that investigators found cameras in the apartment.

“What’s on the cameras, Nicole?” Triolo asked. “What are we going to see?”

Virzi replied, “I want a lawyer.”

And questioning stopped.

Over the course of the next several hours, Triolo allowed Virzi to call her parents — a call that was on speaker and recorded as part of the interrogation video.

Triolo brought Virzi several bottles of water, coffee, pretzels and a protein bar.

At some point that afternoon, Virzi spoke to a defense attorney — off camera — for about 45 minutes.
 
  • #176
Around 8:30 a.m., Curtis told Virzi that investigators found cameras in the apartment.

“What’s on the cameras, Nicole?” Triolo asked. “What are we going to see?”

Virzi replied, “I want a lawyer.”

And questioning stopped.

Over the course of the next several hours, Triolo allowed Virzi to call her parents — a call that was on speaker and recorded as part of the interrogation video.

Triolo brought Virzi several bottles of water, coffee, pretzels and a protein bar.

At some point that afternoon, Virzi spoke to a defense attorney — off camera — for about 45 minutes.
How could anyone think of eating after what she had done?
 
  • #177
Around 8:30 a.m., Curtis told Virzi that investigators found cameras in the apartment.

“What’s on the cameras, Nicole?” Triolo asked. “What are we going to see?”

Virzi replied, “I want a lawyer.”

And questioning stopped.

Over the course of the next several hours, Triolo allowed Virzi to call her parents — a call that was on speaker and recorded as part of the interrogation video.

Triolo brought Virzi several bottles of water, coffee, pretzels and a protein bar.

At some point that afternoon, Virzi spoke to a defense attorney — off camera — for about 45 minutes.
Soooooo... MOO but this seems incredibly odd that her statement made almost 10 hours later after she clearly invoked ends up being shared publicly in a triblive article??? There and only there is it even printed.

Is this by design, in order to give her the benefit of the doubt once trial begins? "The media was being so careless a& shared inadmissible statements made by my client".
 
  • #178
Soooooo... MOO but this seems incredibly odd that her statement made almost 10 hours later after she clearly invoked ends up being shared publicly in a triblive article??? There and only there is it even printed.

Is this by design, in order to give her the benefit of the doubt once trial begins? "The media was being so careless a& shared inadmissible statements made by my client".
Interesting observation. If that was the goal, I may have unwittingly assisted the defense by posting quotes from the article.

JMO
 
  • #179
My apologies for the delay — I’ve been travelling extensively. There have been some really thoughtful points over the past few days. I’ve also been doing more reading, including the filings in the omnibus motion, and I want to clarify a couple of things and explain where I’m coming from.

First, on the medical side:
Child-abuse pediatrics is a field where experts often work under enormous emotional pressure, especially when a baby has died. There is a well-documented tendency for some practitioners to approach cases with a confirmation mindset — not out of bad faith, but because the subject matter is so emotive and the stakes so high. Group-think can happen, and second opinions have changed causes of death in more cases than many people realise. That doesn’t mean anyone here is wrong; only that early medical conclusions shouldn’t automatically be treated as infallible.

And at this stage, we still don’t know what exact bouncer or bassinet was used, how it was positioned, or how the baby was placed in it. Without those specifics, none of us can say definitively what was or wasn’t mechanically possible. That part will have to come out through testimony.

Second, on the mechanics and the injuries:
Several posters have made a strong case that a 6-week-old is extremely unlikely to exit a seat on their own, and that the force involved is a central question. I agree this will be a major point of dispute. But again, until we know the exact device, its setup, and whether it was used correctly, I think it’s reasonable to reserve judgment.

Third, on the confession:
This is where things become complicated. According to the filings, Nicole had around 3 hours of sleep, was jet-lagged, and was kept locked in an interview room for nearly 13 hours, crying, shivering, repeatedly asking for her parents, and was told there were cameras in the apartment before any incriminating statements were made. Under those conditions, the reliability of what she eventually said is highly suspect.

This isn’t hypothetical. There are well-documented cases where people confessed under similar stressors in child-injury investigations:

Adrian P. Thomas (New York) — Interrogated nearly 10 hours, repeatedly told he killed his baby and threatened with his wife’s arrest. Eventually agreed with the narrative police pushed. Later medical review showed the child died from sepsis, not abuse. Conviction overturned; charges dismissed.

Krystal Voss (Colorado) — Under intense pressure, she “confessed” to swinging her child into a wall — a scenario later shown to be medically impossible. Independent review undermined the initial diagnosis. Her conviction was vacated and she was exonerated.

Paul Ingram (Washington) — After lengthy interrogations and suggestive questioning, he came to believe he had committed acts he had never initially been accused of. A classic example of how highly suggestible individuals can internalise false narratives under pressure.

These cases aren’t identical, but they show that confessions — especially in emotionally charged child cases — must be evaluated in full context, not taken at face value.

Fourth, on behaviour (“why didn’t she…”, “why didn’t she say…”):
Some of Nicole’s actions are indeed difficult to interpret. But behaviour from someone exhausted, frightened, grieving, or panicking is rarely logical. Sometimes panic looks like deception; sometimes guilt looks like panic. Without the full picture, these cues aren’t diagnostic.

Where I currently stand:
She is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And I personally have strong doubts the prosecution has yet dispelled. There are multiple layers here — medical interpretation, mechanism of injury, interrogation dynamics, procedural issues, and human behaviour under severe stress. Given how many cases nationally have shifted once all evidence was examined, I’d rather stay cautious and open-minded until this goes through the proper evidentiary process.

I fully respect that others here have formed firmer views. Let’s see how things play out.
 
  • #180
(NV) was told there were cameras in the apartment before any incriminating statements were made. Under those conditions, the reliability of what she eventually said is highly suspect.
Just pulled part of your post out to comment on specifically...

Yes, as you said, she was told there were cameras in the apartment before any incriminating statements were made.

But I would say the same thing in slightly different wording:

Only after being told there were cameras in the apartment, did she make any incriminating statements (or confessions).

Or we could also say, she denied all accusations, until she was told there were cameras in the apartment. Then she began confessing (or making incriminating statements.)

In other words (my words), she lied and gave untruthful answers until they told her they had it all on camera. Then she began telling the truth. And all this happened soon after she was allowed to meet with her parents and also alone with her attorney.

And I wouldn't agree with your description of her mental and physical state when she made her incriminating statements. I think she was in better shape than you think she was at that time. Fresh from the attorney meeting. Also wouldn't her attorney have tried to call a halt to their interrogation of her if she was in any really bad condition? Maybe that wouldn't work, I don't really know.

It just really stands out to me that she changed her whole story after she thought she had been caught on video. I don't know any other way to interpret that.
 

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