NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #4

[CARIIS]

There is no narrative or opinion on this -- its raw footage

Houston I think we have some very serious problems,

What first got me was music and crowd behaviors

Next we have performance , song selection (different than any other video I have seen)

Everything we have seen starts from when the band is mid song.

However we have a pop him starting the song that has been connected to this

But gunshots start from this angle - at a different (earlier) part of the song.

What is striking however is crowd response to what is gunshots from behind the crowd BEFORE the main rounds start as it relates to the song itself.

We then have clearly some other stream of gunshots right at them BEFORE the first volley that has been aired endlessly -- and the shots and audio sound like what we have heard.

Before that it is a totally different sound, and at the end of the new sounds there is an overlap where there are two people firing .

DO two things. Listen for a big boom - pay attention to the song start but watch -- the crowd near the new sounds start panicking and fleeing before the part of the song that we have all seen over and over??

The guy filming whats going on question is before where it has usually STARTED from ??????

For those that, like me , dont particular care for this genre start around 230 so you have lead time to listen , watch crowd behaviors and time his asking what is going on

OR is that bullets hitting the ground - which is totally creepy





[video=youtube;b7GZ1RawlLo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7GZ1RawlLo&t=236[/video]

or maybe its him changing windows??

Handsome man with shirt off alert has been given !!!!!!!!!!

The guy filming has to be heavy -- the footsteps are unreal

 

[sds71]

CNN @CNN
Man staying in Las Vegas hotel room directly below shooter says he did not hear first shot that struck hotel guard (link: http://snpy.tv/2y5xar3) snpy.tv/

 

[2Hope4]

Floored, completely floored. It's like the whole narrative has changed, a week after the fact. I don't even know what is fact anymore...

 

[Gardenista]

CNN @CNN
Man staying in Las Vegas hotel room directly below shooter says he did not hear first shot that struck hotel guard (link: http://snpy.tv/2y5xar3) snpy.tv/

Oopsy.

During these PCs, I get the feeling the FBI guy (who always stands in the background) has a remote shocking device which has a lead going directly to the sheriff.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You can be very mentally ill and meticulous and organized at the same time. It is a fallacy to believe otherwise.

If you research personality disorders (Yes, they are a mental illness, diagnosable using the DSM-V, are evidenced based with specific criteria). Mental illness is not always visible or obvious, especially with personality disorders. Any Mental Health Professional will tell you that. Not all Mental Illness are treatable with medications as in psychosis (Schizophrenia spectrum Disorders, Bipolar Disorder Anxiety Disorders and Depression/ Depression with psychotic features amongst many others.) Personality Disorders are in a class of their own and psychotropic medications are to the first line of treatment. Personality disorders do not present with the same symptoms of obvious acute psychosis and disorganized behavior.

(Although Borderline Personality Disorder can sometimes mask itself and look a lot like Bipolar Disorder. A good clinician will be able to tell the difference over time )

Again, to say someone who commits such a horrific act like this is "Mentally Ill" is not an attempt to excuse the shooter. There is ALWAYS a component of mental illness and or diagnosable personality pathology, involved in people who commit these acts. That does not mean that they did not know what they were doing was wrong at the time. In fact, certain personality disorders would ENJOY it.

He was homicidal and suicidal. That right there is the exact criteria that will get you psychiatrically hospitalized against your own will legally if it is detected and you wind up in front of a psychiatrist and mental health team for assessment. They can involuntarily hospitalize you against your will due to suicidal and/ or homicidal ideation for stabilization because you are considered to be psychiatrically unstable and there is clear imminent risk to self or others.

To say that meticulously planning and carrying out a massacre undetected somehow indicates that you are not at all mentally ill is to completely minimize the severity and persistence of personality disorders. A person that is operating at optimum mental health would not even be capable of doing something like this. Their empathy and compassion as a human being would stop them.

Also, there is a strong correlation between pathological gambling (SP was a gambling ADDICT, just with means and good at what he did) and Cluster B personality Disorders in established mental health research.

Cluster B personality disorders are diagnosable mental illness that are difficult to treat, but nevertheless are mental illnesses.There are entire treatment models used to specifically treat them, namely Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) (most successful with Borderline Personality Disorder. Antisocial Personality Disorder is more treatment resistant but can in some cases respond or spontaneously remit, albeit rarely. Cluster B Personality Disorders include:

Antisocial Personality Disorder (Formerly sociopathy in the professional vernacular or Psychopathy)

Narcissistic Personalty Disorder

Histrionic Personality Disorder

Borderline Personality Disorder.

I provided a peer reviewed journal article on this in an earlier another thread. It is also important to note that you can have a personality disorder AND another type of mental illness at the same time, such as Bipolar Disorder etc. It is not always one or the other.

Here is some literature on the prevalence of personality disorders in pathological gamblers , especially antisocial personality disorder .

This is just one published study of many and I chose this one at random. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593739/

Unless these are links to a doctor's medical files showing SP was seen and evaluated/diagnosed by them it doesn't help me one way or the other.
I appreciate the information though.

There still hasn't been one scintilla of proof SP suffered from any mental illness though.

It seems even today the police have no idea why he did these crimes. In the end, I think his motive is very simple and not complex at all nor was it because he was mentally ill. I believe he did them because he wanted to do them, and knew he could achieve his intended goals. Imo, he wanted to go down in history as being the most notorious mass shooter in our history never to be forgotten. He achieved those goals unfortunately, This was just another conquest for him, imo.

In fact most who have spoken out in the media that are either ex-FBI agents or in some other type of law enforcement or high ranking retired military said his mind had to be crystal clear the night he did this. He was precise, laser focused and couldnt have been suffering from anxiety. If he was he would have been overcome by anxiety once he knew the SG knew his location. It didnt faze him and he continued on.

Even after the casino security guard came to his door and was shot that did not break his concentration or focus. Even after then he still carried out his mission to commit mass murder.

Imo, it is not minimizing those who have some type of mental disorder. What is being minimized is there is simply NO evidence whatsoever at this time this man suffered from any type of mental illness.

IMO, Its a slap in the face to those who have been diagnosed with some type of mental disorder because the vast majority of people who are truly mentally ill usually harm no one and if they do it is self-harm.

Until I see proof (such as full history documented by a qualified mental health doctor who evaluated/diagnosed who actually saw him).... state he suffered from mental illness, and it was so great that it turned him into a mass murderer, I can't assume he was mentally ill.

I am talking about a mental illness that he had that would make him turn into a mass murderer because of it. I just see no evidence of that.

JMO

 

[Gardenista]

This also makes one wonder about Wynn's interview and his random comment about never letting a random guest use a service elevator...

Not a betting girl, but if I was in Vegas I'd bet a huge sum on that little nugget of info being true. So if it is true, to me, this means he had help. The question is, did the helper know about the plan?

 

[Ambitioned]

Oopsy.

During these PCs, I get the feeling the FBI guy (who always stands in the background) has a remote shocking device which has a lead going directly to the sheriff.

They might as well just blame it all on Lee Harvey Oswald and call it a day.

This is becoming unpalatable IMO.

 

[sds71]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4964652/Las-Vegas-killer-timeline-chaos-new-revelations.html

 

[Rallibella]

Why is this not the main story on every news site? There is no way this can seem logical to reporters.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Lombardo also says Stephen Paddock had personal protection equipment in his room.
http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/36556165/sheriff-still-dont-know-motive-of-las-vegas-shooter

I thought he might have had a police officers uniform or a SWAT uniform - that's about the only way he could have gotten away from the scene. To "blend in" just like he had done at the casinos.
Hearing he had personal protective equipment makes me wonder what he had.
Bullet proof vest? Helmet?
Kevlar clothing...
I still believe this killer was a career criminal who escaped capture for decades.
MOO
ETA: are we're fer sure fer sure, the body on the floor was SP?

Also notice they said he was shot "in the head"
NOT through the mouth!

"Once inside, officers say they located Paddock deceased on the hotel room floor with a self-inflicted gunshot wound through his head "

http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/jesus...ing-mandalay-bay-shot-stephen-paddock-photos/
I am shocked at the deception, but there must be a reason why!!!
MOO
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Spice]

Unless these are links to a doctor's medical files showing SP was seen and evaluated/diagnosed by them it doesn't help me one way or the other.

There still hasn't been one scintilla of proof SP suffered from any mental illness though.

It seems even today the police have no idea why he did these crimes. In the end, I think his motive is very simple and not complex at all nor was it because he was mentally ill. I believe he did them because he wanted to do them, and knew he could achieve his intended goals. Imo, he wanted to go down in history as being the most notorious mass shooter in our history never to be forgotten. He achieved those goals unfortunately

In fact most who have spoken out in the media that are either ex-FBI agents or in some other type of law enforcement or high ranking retired military said his mind had to be crystal clear the night he did this. He was precise, laser focused and couldnt have been suffering from anxiety. If he was he would have been overcome by anxiety once he knew the SG knew his location. It didnt faze him and he continued on.

Even after the casino security guard came to his door and was shot that did not break his concentration or focus. Even after then he still carried out his mission to commit mass murder.

Imo, it is not minimizing those who have some type of mental disorder. What is being minimized is there is simply NO evidence whatsoever at this time this man suffered from any type of mental illness.

IMO, Its a slap in the face to those who have been diagnosed with some type of mental disorder because the vast majority of people who are truly mentally ill usually harm no one and if they do it is self-harm.

Until I see proof (such as full history documented by a qualified mental health doctor who evaluated/diagnosed who actually saw him).... state he suffered from mental illness, and it was so great that turned him into a mass murderer, I am not going to assume he was mentally ill.

JMO

I am done going around and around on this merry go round. Please see my many posts exploring possibility and prevalence and the links provided. I never used the words proof.I am moving on. My posts with my opinions are there. I do not want to take up anymore space on this thread arguing mental illness. My opinions stand on their own. You are entitled to yours.

All posts are IMO.

 

[m00c0w]

Why is this not the main story on every news site? There is no way this can seem logical to reporters.

Maybe they’re afraid of the real answers. Dunno.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Why is this not the main story on every news site? There is no way this can seem logical to reporters.

-Please specify what you are referring to. There are too many angles to dissect. I’m very interested in logical reporting. TIA

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What the eff is going on?!!

So security guard checks on the door ajar alarm. I’m guessing he catches SP drilling the stairwell closed. SP assumes he has killed the security guard and carries on with his attack. Maybe he wasn’t quite ready when he was interrupted so he had to finish getting ready, break windows, etc?This actually makes sense from what I heard a concert attendee saying in a tv interview. He said at first they heard what they thought were fireworks (SP shooting guard?). And then a few minutes later it was much louder and people started dropping. It would also account for some of the different noise levels of the gunshots. I think SP prob knew his time was limited and perhaps had the cameras and knew when SWAT was in the stairwell. Then offer himself when he thought they were approaching. I also wonder why he wouldn’t go out guns blazing? Maybe to ensure he wasn’t taken alive?

Imo, he was in control during the mass shooting, and he wanted to be in control for how he died.

 

[Gooddeeds]

They might as well just blame it all on Lee Harvey Oswald and call it a day.

This is becoming unpalatable IMO.

-Garden that is funny!
And yes it is unpalatable! Its like they need a “do-over”, unfortunately we have to standby for another spin on these very important details.

 

[Rallibella]

-Please specify what you are referring to. There are too many angles to dissect. I’m very interested in logical reporting. TIA

Sorry - I meant the fact that the guard was shot six minutes before the mass shooting started.

 

[kittythehare]

As far as I know, guards story hasn't been made public, so we don't know what it actually is. The way the story was released, maybe it has nothing to do with guard's story. Original story was, police got there just as perp shot the guard, and then perp stopped shooting. So per original story, what police could have possibly done? Suspect already stopped shooting by the time they got to his door. Now we find out, that is not the case, guard was shot before other people were shot. So could police have gotten there sooner?

When did the alleged 70 or 72 minutes start? I assumed it started when the first volley o shots were fired into the crowd? And ended when they entered his room and allegedly found him dead.
Given that a lot of time , more than normal is reqd for anti terror preps, booby traps, evacuation etc etc.. the time of the first volley into the crowd MUST be on record. I'm unsure whether the bodycam footage was timed.. its likely it was?
But, the original reports were suggesting that the police were 'almost on their way up to the floor when the security guard was shot.
Entire shooting time, not counting the shots fired at the tanks was said to be 10-15 minutes depending on which report one believes..
Should we be adding the time he took to shoot the security guy through the door PLUS the 10-15 minutes crowd shooting to the 70-72 minutes response time- ending when they opened that door?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am done going around and around on this merry go round. Please see my many posts exploring possibility and prevalence and the links provided. I never used the words proof.I am moving on. My posts with my opinions are there. I do not want to take up anymore space on this thread arguing mental illness. My opinions stand on their own. You are entitled to yours.

All posts are IMO.

I do understand and I apologize if it came out that way. I am truly sorry but I have read so many posts for a week now implying he WAS mentally ill without any evidence. It wasn't posted by you so I should have omitted that part of my replying post.

Again, I apologize.

 

[CARIIS]

I am done going around and around on this merry go round. Please see my many posts exploring possibility and prevalence and the links provided. I never used the words proof.I am moving on. My posts with my opinions are there. I do not want to take up anymore space on this thread arguing mental illness. My opinions stand on their own. You are entitled to yours.

All posts are IMO.

I dont know what "Proof "looks like!

He was born in early 50's-- mental health was taboo -- in the 70's - for men it was a weakness .

There are tons of people who do not seek hle its getting better tho

through in a huge of dose of some narcissism and he needs no help!

I am surprised I have not seen any bullet wounds and bleeding tho on anything I have seen but it was 22000 people

 

[Isabelle]

The guard was shot at 9:59pm after seeing/hearing Paddock drilling into a wall. Shooting into crowd didn't start until 10:05pm...Sheriff Lombardo stated they have no idea why he stopped shooting.

My question is, what took the guard so long to report the shooting? Something's strange here...jmo.


http://fox6now.com/2017/10/09/sheriff-las-vegas-mass-shooter-fired-at-nearby-fuel-tanks/

Guard was probably trying to find a way out or someplace to take cover.