NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #6

[m00c0w]

I guess I am the last person that such a litigator would want on a jury.

Especially if such a juror has already made up their mind as to the frivolousness of the lawsuit without actually having seen all of the evidence there is to present.

 

[canadiangirl]

Especially if such a juror has already made up their mind as to the frivolousness of the lawsuit without actually having seen all of the evidence there is to present.

Thankfully a jury is made up of your peers. So many trials by media.


Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[Cryptic]

I also rationalised that the guns ad hardware could have been made small, folded up etc and would not have required big cases.. I dont know if thats correct..
Which would mean there would have been several small entrances to hotel with small bags as opposed to huge cases?

It is possible that he could of made several small trips with guns. As a side note, drug smugglers have learned the hard way that one big smuggling attempt is statistically safer than several smuggling attempts with smaller amounts of drugs.

That aside, even with one trip with guns, the luggage associated with such a trip would probably no have been huge cases. Rather, with light weight modern guns with collapsible stocks and short barrels, I am guessing say, 3 over size suitcases.

 

[Cryptic]

Especially if such a juror has already made up their mind as to the frivolousness of the lawsuit without actually having seen all of the evidence there is to present.

And especially if the person placing the suit has already placed blame on third parties with out the investigation being closed.

In the end, unless the litigant could prove that MGM ignored loaded weapons in his room, was aware that SP made threats, was dangerous, or that MGM say, promoted themselves as being friendly to rampage shooters etc. the litigant is not going to want me on the jury.

SP is responsible. Suits should be placed against his estate.

 

[m00c0w]

It is possible that he could of made several small trips with guns. As a side note, drug smugglers have learned the hard way that one big smuggling attempt is statistically safer than several smuggling attempts with smaller amounts of drugs.

That aside, even with one trip with guns, the luggage associated with such a trip would probably no have been huge cases. Rather, with light weight modern guns with collapsible stocks and short barrels, I am guessing say, 2-3 over size suitcases.

At 6lbs a gun (which is significantly on the light side), you're looking at ~150lbs, just for firearms. Not accounting for accessories such as scopes. Not counting ammunition, that would have been another ~70lbs just for 2,500 5.56 rounds, plus the dozens of magazines... Then things like body armor... That's a considerable amount of weight for 2-3 bags. Based on him making trips back and forth from his house, and based on the sheer amount of stuff he had, I'd bet multiple small suitcases over several days was more likely.

:moo:

 

[Cryptic]

At 6lbs a gun (which is significantly on the light side), you're looking at ~150lbs, just for firearms. Not accounting for accessories such as scopes. Not counting ammunition, that would have been another ~70lbs just for 2,500 5.56 rounds, plus the dozens of magazines... Then things like body armor... That's a considerable amount of weight for 2-3 bags. Based on him making trips back and forth from his house, and based on the sheer amount of stuff he had, I'd bet multiple small suitcases over several days was more likely.

You could well be right about the multiple trips. Also, SP may not have been aware of the drug smuggling statistics.

At the same time, say, 240 pounds of weight distributed in 3 over sized bags is not going to attract attention in a city that hosts hundreds of trade exhibitions each year. Though entirely possible to do it in one trip, I am now thinking multiple trips is more likely.

 

[MistyWaters]

Ok, the other shooters. Were they all set up like Paddock and did they all just clean up the shells and smoke from the excessive firings and pack up their guns and check out the next day with their ten suitcases?

Reports say the entire strip was under lockdown for several hours, people hiding everywhere. During that time it's understandable how false rumours spread because 911 calls/police scanner information was being shared on twitter in real time. For the victims, no idea what was going on but initially fear of a terrorist attack had to be on the minds of many.

".......said they went to a couple of casinos and ended at the Bellagio. However, once they decided to go back to MGM, where they were staying, they noticed people running.

"Out of nowhere, the whole casino, just hit a panic and everybody in that place, took off running and started ducking for cover, getting behind slot machines and tables, you name it. Everybody was in full panic mode,” Crubaugh said.

The casino at the Bellagio, like others on the strip went on lockdown, according to Crubaugh. He said visitors who spent the night in the employee area of that casino had two moments of panic as false rumors of two shooters were circulating in that room."
http://www.kxxv.com/story/36505014/...-casino-on-lockdown-during-las-vegas-massacre

 

[m00c0w]

Ok, the other shooters. Were they all set up like Paddock and did they all just clean up the shells and smoke from the excessive firings and pack up their guns and check out the next day with their ten suitcases?

What precludes them from having used some of the 20+ rifles found and thousands of rounds of ammunition in the room, and just left them? Not saying I believe it, but that's not a rational reason to discount the theory.

 

[ohreally]

Reports say the entire strip was under lockdown for several hours, people hiding everywhere. During that time it's understandable how false rumours spread because 911 calls/police scanner information was being shared on twitter in real time. For the victims, no idea what was going on but initially fear of a terrorist attack had to be on the minds of many.

".......said they went to a couple of casinos and ended at the Bellagio. However, once they decided to go back to MGM, where they were staying, they noticed people running.

"Out of nowhere, the whole casino, just hit a panic and everybody in that place, took off running and started ducking for cover, getting behind slot machines and tables, you name it. Everybody was in full panic mode,” Crubaugh said.

The casino at the Bellagio, like others on the strip went on lockdown, according to Crubaugh. He said visitors who spent the night in the employee area of that casino had two moments of panic as false rumors of two shooters were circulating in that room."
http://www.kxxv.com/story/36505014/...-casino-on-lockdown-during-las-vegas-massacre

This is a very good article. IMO it explains that there was chaos as far down as the Bellagio. Twice people thought there was gunfire but they were false. 22,000 plus people running in all directions. Yet I have seen no reports of people killed or injured by gunfire in that location.
I do believe people that were there that night truly believe that there were multiple shooters that night. I also believe a very small amount still believe it. I can understand that. These people were traumatized possibly for life. I have compassion for them and hope for the best for them.
I just can't see any evidence of multiple shooters other than the statements. With all the people there and reporters if there was bullet hole to structure, people with gunshot injures, or gunshot deaths near the Bellagio there would be no covering it up IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

What precludes them from having used some of the 20+ rifles found and thousands of rounds of ammunition in the room, and just left them? Not saying I believe it, but that's not a rational reason to discount the theory.

My understanding of the basis of the multiple shooter theory is there is a conspiracy to cover up shooters at other hotel locations and/or snipers chasing people.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is a very good article. IMO it explains that there was chaos as far down as the Bellagio. Twice people thought there was gunfire but they were false. 22,000 plus people running in all directions. Yet I have seen no reports of people killed or injured by gunfire in that location.
I do believe people that were there that night truly believe that there were multiple shooters that night. I also believe a very small amount still believe it. I can understand that. These people were traumatized possibly for life. I have compassion for them and hope for the best for them.
I just can't see any evidence of multiple shooters other than the statements. With all the people there and reporters if there was bullet hole to structure, people with gunshot injures, or gunshot deaths near the Bellagio there would be no covering it up IMO.

Yes, if people were shot at secondary locations it would require a gigantic conspiracy to cover it up. Not only LE and the hotel and all its employees, but the injured and their friends, witnesses, first responders, etc. If there were other snipers, given the masses of people, there'd have been casualties and evidence of gunfire.

I don't even get the point of why there'd be a conspiracy. Given the magnitude of the tragedy, it's not as if anyone was left with the impression nothing occurred in Las Vegas on October 1st.

 

[Betty P]

My understanding of the basis of the multiple shooter theory is there is a conspiracy to cover up shooters at other hotel locations and/or snipers chasing people.

Seems implausible, JMO.

It's a lot of activity, evidence and crime scenes to cover up in a very short time when resources were stretched to the limit handling the actual crime scene

Why? No plausible reason for doing so

Sadly, there are cruel people who develop and promote these theories during tragedies only to make a profit by selling books, getting web traffic, donations, etc.

 

[Gooddeeds]

He looks about as excited as someone who was just handed a dead cat.

-I second that, better than my ‘deer in the headlights’

 

[CARIIS]

Can someone link where I can find Tricias podcasts from the last 10 days -- full ones

If I can there I can link the podcast --ain't it all ironic -- our Tricia I dont kiss ---- but her female guest spun my brain around

Our tricia guest (the female) unravelled the whole mess !

if one of you can get me to the page to where I can back and find the posdcasts I will then be able to remember which one it is and link it

but I have tried

last night it came up not foudn

then i found another thing but that was only like 1-2 minutes

I need a link that gives me whole podcasts -- I will recgonize the two guests names the dude (clinical ) he was so amazing

But I know I know its a shock I cant remember there names !

On there end IMO there coming off this and Keenka which I think were really hard to manage !!

I really at this point dont wanna bug tricia -- and think that you guys would be able to give me the link and then I dont have to bug any of em

my sense they are really tired guys -- it has not been exactly a calm three months in the world and therefore here !

Trying not to bug mods or Tricia -- been a rough hall for them I think!!

I think they might do something else to help bury this

tia

 

[zencompass]

They do not have video in the hallways at Mandalay Bay - unless you mean the camera SP set up...which I also would like to see

Dear vipate,

Good thinking! (as usual).

Perhaps if there is a video of the hall and it can be shown then it could dispel some of the rumors circulating.

From what I understand, people want questions answered. They want more information, more details. The public is accustomed to seeing and hearing more details such as the London terror attacks and the Boston bombing. There were details and videos and everything was analyzed. Not so much in this investigation and I think it frightens people. They are not sure

Someone suggested showing videos of S.P. alone, walking through the hotel with bags. That's a great idea as well.

Some members of the public feel anxious that there could have been more than one shooter. There is anxiety as well as frustration at lack of more information/details.

Some of this is just human nature, in my opinion. We all have questions.

Your suggestion, Vipate. of the release of the video of the hall would show more transparency from the authorities.

Thank you

These are only my thoughts and opinions.

 

[ohreally]

The problem I have with this is how do we know this is a legitimate websight? Remember the CNN one? Times and order of dispatches can easily be manipulated, even content. The Tropicana is property starts right after the fairgrounds. If he could hit the tanks 2,000 feet away it may be possible for bullets to hit the Tropicana property. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[zencompass]

Do any of you wonderful folks know whether there were cameras in the elevators? I probably missed the post about it and I apologize. Thank you in advance.

 

[everybodhi]

It is possible that he could of made several small trips with guns. As a side note, drug smugglers have learned the hard way that one big smuggling attempt is statistically safer than several smuggling attempts with smaller amounts of drugs.

That aside, even with one trip with guns, the luggage associated with such a trip would probably no have been huge cases. Rather, with light weight modern guns with collapsible stocks and short barrels, I am guessing say, 3 over size suitcases.

I have been to Vegas several times and I always see rich people with a dozen or more pieces of luggage, stacking them up on the big gold carts, sometimes they need two carts.
That is a normal sight, everyday, in front of the big hotels in Vegas.

 

[Betty P]

This is a very good article. IMO it explains that there was chaos as far down as the Bellagio. Twice people thought there was gunfire but they were false. 22,000 plus people running in all directions. Yet I have seen no reports of people killed or injured by gunfire in that location.
I do believe people that were there that night truly believe that there were multiple shooters that night. I also believe a very small amount still believe it. I can understand that. These people were traumatized possibly for life. I have compassion for them and hope for the best for them.
I just can't see any evidence of multiple shooters other than the statements. With all the people there and reporters if there was bullet hole to structure, people with gunshot injures, or gunshot deaths near the Bellagio there would be no covering it up IMO.

Agree, this was a classic case of mass hysteria and panic. Very predictable in this kind of situation, especially in a city like Las Vegas full of tourists. It's not at all surprising that some people thought they saw and heard things that were misinterpreted as additional shooters, bombs, etc. People in the US have been made very paranoid about terrorist attacks in public, so when it happens, they have a preconceived set of expectations and fears about what they think is happening.

The most difficult part for many is accepting that the "terrorist" in this case was one of them, not some dark-skinned foreigners. He was a reportedly successful businessman, conservative, a patriotic, all American guy who liked to gamble, collect guns and enjoyed country music - all traits and hobbies that most of his victims respect and admire. For many, it triggered a lot of cognitive dissonance and for a few it created denial and a drive to find an alternate explanation that more easily fit their view of how "terrorists" should look and behave.

 

[CARIIS]

TY TY TY

I am visual

OT

let me put it this way

I am not the person you would want to go on road trip with

unless you are ok with never seeing your loved ones again

I do think it is like a genetic directional dyslexia like issue

my mother is as horrid as I am

it has caused problems in my life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont know guns but I really dont think bullets can travel from MB to Aria cop flat out said shots there

the giles one seems like it could be someone shot at MB and walked to there and was found

but MB to Aria IMO = more than one shooter -- simple moo