NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #6

[bears10]

And here, once again, is the link i provided which led me to believe it is POSSIBLE there COULD be cameras in the hallways at MBay:

"Surveillance footage shows that she and Gonzalez shared an elevator; both exited on the eighth floor. Anderson entered her room, shut the door behind her, and went to sleep."

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nv-supreme-court/1715975.html

Oh. I responded to that post. I never disputed that there are likely cameras in the elevator area. And they probably know she entered her room bc of her key card. Obviously they don't know she went to sleep due to surveillance footage, so I think it's plausible they are not saying that they know she closed the door behind her because they saw it on surveillance. JMO

 

[zencompass]

And here, once again, is the link i provided which led me to believe it is POSSIBLE there COULD be cameras in the hallways at MBay:

"Surveillance footage shows that she and Gonzalez shared an elevator; both exited on the eighth floor. Anderson entered her room, shut the door behind her, and went to sleep."

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nv-supreme-court/1715975.html

Dear CoolJ,

Thank you for this caselaw article.

It's an eyeopener!

Under "Facts" : "surveillance footage" not just "surveillance".

Brilliant research!

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Tho did not create all eyewitnesses the same ha!

IMO there is a huge diff between asking someone to give the height of someone from 8 feet away than what witnesses , by the thousands have described.

Standing all smushed together. It starts . THe direction of gunfire kinda gives one a starting point. In order for bullets to hit things they have to fly in.

When bulllets enter bodies they make a noise - in a direction.

Blood comes out in a direction

and hot

am not trying to be gross just honest

if 8 of us are smushed together and bullets start to hit we all would hear where those by were hit .

We would also be able to ascertain that if the predominant noise was from the upper right and people standing near me on my right were hit in their back and blood came out on the people standing in front of us (as opposed to behind us) it would be pretty reasonable for those who lived to accuratley state that bullets came from behind us entered in my back and my blood went...

this is different because of the sardine nation of people standing close

There are a lot more sensing things happening. Seeing , feeling hearing sensing vibrations .

That is a lot more data than guessing how tall someone is and color of hair

What is even more biazaire is the band runns off stage toward MB.

At that time the noise from that direction was loud. One would think they would run off stage the other way.

In many many videos out there that are from the rear there is clearly shooting (not nearly as powerful weapons ) from the back of the crowd .

So the band is looking out - and are seeing things from the back and left part of the audiance- that is why they run off the stage the way they did IMO.

T

My guess is that they were running towards the exits. Running towards the stage would get them nothing but pressed against a stage...

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[x_files]

There is one unreal video from a guy in the way back.

Like a dude that likes the music but is really fine to be at the back a bit away from the crowd.

On his stuff BEFORE the very first big round of firing from his right on ground level you hear it start .

They were not that thunderoues roar from the machine gun sounds. At all .

by space bar I will show you what I heard. I know Iknow there is really good chance that the guy ran home altered his video remixed his audio and stuff before posting it real
time but here is what "doctored" while being shot at (its absurd IMO )

it went

pop pop pop pop pop pop pop

Now the fascinating thing about it (telling as heck) is crowd behavior ..

Most importanlty however is what I am describing next happened during the song before before -- that is huge

Right before the song before ends and the band does the typical pause (before going into the song that everything happened on) after the pops

the crowd only near the rear starts to stir then you see movement of the crowd (back area of fans only) leaving anxiously . That is quickly moved into (if we do it like a theatre) the last 8 rows of folks go into full panic screaming running mode.

The dude asks what the eff is going on.

All of this is before the song starts

PS:

Funny described warmly below :

I know the guy probably ran to his car inserted the previous song from the set arranged it to match up with big screen on stage relooped the sound on the video , inserted the pop pop pops added in what the eff is going photoshopped the last 8 rows of people slowly running and then turns into mass panic , inserted the screaming added some of the dialog from people fleeing relooped and mixed is video to match where the bulk of all the videos were in time who were not even seen yet and matched hue and contrast sound levels and all before posting it a short time later.

Nothing to it!

He works for Disney and keeps a special effects department in his car outside !

that is funny

A picture tells a thousand words

Video tells the truth........................

moo


+

I wish you could link the video. I'm lost.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

makes no sense to me either. Hopefully there's a logical explanation to it.

I believe they put on these kind of vest so the victims who were injured or fleeing would know the ones donning these kind of vest were law enforcement instead of someone they had to be fearful of. I am sure the people in LV has seen them wear this type of vest before.

The police always runs toward the danger as others run away no matter what attire they may have on at the time.

 

[canadiangirl]

Tho did not create all eyewitnesses the same ha!

IMO there is a huge diff between asking someone to give the height of someone from 8 feet away than what witnesses , by the thousands have described.

Standing all smushed together. It starts . THe direction of gunfire kinda gives one a starting point. In order for bullets to hit things they have to fly in.

When bulllets enter bodies they make a noise - in a direction.

Blood comes out in a direction

and hot

am not trying to be gross just honest

if 8 of us are smushed together and bullets start to hit we all would hear where those by were hit .

We would also be able to ascertain that if the predominant noise was from the upper right and people standing near me on my right were hit in their back and blood came out on the people standing in front of us (as opposed to behind us) it would be pretty reasonable for those who lived to accuratley state that bullets came from behind us entered in my back and my blood went...

this is different because of the sardine nation of people standing close

There are a lot more sensing things happening. Seeing , feeling hearing sensing vibrations .

That is a lot more data than guessing how tall someone is and color of hair

What is even more biazaire is the band runns off stage toward MB.

At that time the noise from that direction was loud. One would think they would run off stage the other way.

In many many videos out there that are from the rear there is clearly shooting (not nearly as powerful weapons ) from the back of the crowd .

So the band is looking out - and are seeing things from the back and left part of the audiance- that is why they run off the stage the way they did IMO.

T

I'll say it again. Go watch the interview from victim Rocky Palermo. It's on CNN
He spoke again about it later, he was hit in the pelvis running. HOW? Like he said the shot was fired horizontally.. Gunfire came from above. (CNN left out that tidbit though) jmo


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[canadiangirl]

Because when witness statements match forensic and other evidence, it builds a strong case. Here we have zero forensics pointing to reports of shooters at other locations, or bullets and shell casings that do not match the single shooter theory. If something like that turns up then I am sure that the relevant witnesses will be re-interviewed.

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Ummm I've seen people convicted without a body and LESS evidence then we have here

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[Deleted member 158085]

Not if they do not want us to know the truth! Do you not see how that could be possible?

I could say that about anything, and I do mean anything. Yes, anybody anytime could be lying to you about anything. But most of us do not live our days out suspecting everyone every time about everything is possibly lying.

The question is, why do you suspect they are lying? What is their motive for doing so, in your mind?

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[zencompass]

From this sentence do you think it is meant that surveillance is on each floor of "elevator banks"?

From article: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-guard-20171010-story.html

"There are no hotel surveillance cameras in the hotel hallway, only on the floor’s elevator banks"

 

[CARIIS]

Because when witness statements match forensic and other evidence, it builds a strong case. Here we have zero forensics pointing to reports of shooters at other locations, or bullets and shell casings that do not match the single shooter theory. If something like that turns up then I am sure that the relevant witnesses will be re-interviewed.

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But the reality is we have nothing of the kind.

In fact we have just the opposite! Sure there are nuts on YT.

Were adults . Bullet trajectory is a complex science. I trust myself when I feel people are presenting complex information in a manner that indicates there proficiency and understanding of that they are presenting .

i am confident we all have had professors that in the first 30 minutes were able to accurately ascertain if it was gonna be an amazing learning journey or they were not all that good.

It is not that difficult -- trust your gut -- imo there are several folks out there that imo, sound and demonstrate they know what they are talking about.

I have not seen ONE support the nonsense that there was only location of the fire.

none

does anyone have a link to a knowledgeable person supporting the overtly silly proposition

 

[canadiangirl]

I could say that about anything, and I do mean anything. Yes, anybody anytime could be lying to you about anything. But most of us do not live our days out suspecting everyone every time about everything is possibly lying.

The question is, why do you suspect they are lying? What is their motive for doing so, in your mind?

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I've said this before.. It is a well known fact LE lies for their own agenda in investigations. Whether it be to bring out someone in hiding, whatever the case. They are not always forthcoming and skew facts for their own agenda. Jmo

ETA. We will keep you safe, tell us what you know lol

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[Deleted member 158085]

There is one unreal video from a guy in the way back.

Like a dude that likes the music but is really fine to be at the back a bit away from the crowd.

On his stuff BEFORE the very first big round of firing from his right on ground level you hear it start .

They were not that thunderoues roar from the machine gun sounds. At all .

by space bar I will show you what I heard. I know Iknow there is really good chance that the guy ran home altered his video remixed his audio and stuff before posting it real
time but here is what "doctored" while being shot at (its absurd IMO )

it went

pop pop pop pop pop pop pop

Now the fascinating thing about it (telling as heck) is crowd behavior ..

Most importanlty however is what I am describing next happened during the song before before -- that is huge

Right before the song before ends and the band does the typical pause (before going into the song that everything happened on) after the pops

the crowd only near the rear starts to stir then you see movement of the crowd (back area of fans only) leaving anxiously . That is quickly moved into (if we do it like a theatre) the last 8 rows of folks go into full panic screaming running mode.

The dude asks what the eff is going on.

All of this is before the song starts

PS:

Funny described warmly below :

I know the guy probably ran to his car inserted the previous song from the set arranged it to match up with big screen on stage relooped the sound on the video , inserted the pop pop pops added in what the eff is going photoshopped the last 8 rows of people slowly running and then turns into mass panic , inserted the screaming added some of the dialog from people fleeing relooped and mixed is video to match where the bulk of all the videos were in time who were not even seen yet and matched hue and contrast sound levels and all before posting it a short time later.

Nothing to it!

He works for Disney and keeps a special effects department in his car outside !

that is funny

A picture tells a thousand words

Video tells the truth........................

moo


+

Ok, I don't really understand what you are going on about here. But before I try to delve into it, has this video appeared on MSM? In other words, before I spend any time on this, does the source of this video make it allowable by WS rules and TOS to be discussed here?

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[CARIIS]

I could say that about anything, and I do mean anything. Yes, anybody anytime could be lying to you about anything. But most of us do not live our days out suspecting everyone every time about everything is possibly lying.

The question is, why do you suspect they are lying? What is their motive for doing so, in your mind?

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I don't recall in the beginning most having concerns about the initial story line .

That changed as people who were there released there thoughts feelings and recording.

Doubt increased as the Sheriff became more and more scattered.

Then oddities began.

WIth the passage of time it behooves us IMO to take it as it comes - and modify notions moo

 

[Deleted member 158085]

You know the truly terrifying aspect of this is. people can do whatever they want claim whatever they and in sprite of hours of video clearly contradicting what is being told to the masses -- they will get away with it ,

Think about that

When an entire society is convinced that what there eyes and ears are showing them is not true - and the populace believes it ...


the implications are both chilling and ................ enormous

There would also be "chilling" implications, would there not, if no one had a healthy skepticism of random videos from the internet? If we weren't aware by now how videos can, out of proper context, make the opposite of reality appear to be true at times?

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[Deleted member 158085]

Ummm I've seen people convicted without a body and LESS evidence then we have here

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Yes, and as someone else posted, unreliable eye witness testimony has resulted in overturned convictions.

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[vlpate]

There bright little "garbage man" vests surprised me that night.

I had never seen any LE guys wearing what are like school crossing guards vests.

So I got curious

Here is what the LVMPD wears on regular duty

I

I can not be certain of this , but I would imagine during a training exercise when all sorts entities would have to be put together in the drill a little yellow online purchase of yellow mesh vests with the word security on it might enable that to be accomplished rather simply and without spending a lot of money speculation

They all looked the guys that hold up the stop sign when a road is under construction -- please

I have never seen cops running around in glow in the dark bright yellow hey world LE is standing right here vests, for understandable reasons these days .............

I was also wondering about these vests, and for the same reason, seems the colors made them targets...so I googled. These are called "Hi-res vests"...first responders, traffic police, LE during traffic stops or conducting investigations on or near busy roadways, and LE evacuating mass casualty events wear them, by mandate, in some cases.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I've said this before.. It is a well known fact LE lies for their own agenda in investigations. Whether it be to bring out someone in hiding, whatever the case. They are not always forthcoming and skew facts for their own agenda. Jmo

ETA. We will keep you safe, tell us what you know lol

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So no idea what their motive would be for lying. I want to know what the supposed agenda would be here.

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[zencompass]

I believe they put on these kind of vest so the victims who were injured or fleeing would know the ones donning these kind of vest were law enforcement instead of someone they had to be fearful of. I am sure the people in LV has seen them wear this type of vest before.

The police always runs toward the danger as others run away no matter what attire they may have on at the time.

Dear Oceanblueeyes,

It appears that this law enforcement article absolutely agrees with you!

I read from this article : (a law enforcement publication):
http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=4294

"The reason is simple: they want police to stand out in a crowd so that they can serve as a deterrent to crime and so that people who need assistance can spot them more easily. The secondary benefit is officer safety in or near traffic. "

 

[Betty P]

And here, once again, is the link i provided which led me to believe it is POSSIBLE there COULD be cameras in the hallways at MBay:

"Surveillance footage shows that she and Gonzalez shared an elevator; both exited on the eighth floor. Anderson entered her room, shut the door behind her, and went to sleep."

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nv-supreme-court/1715975.html

Yes, as was pointed out in the last PC, MB has cameras on the floors:

Next to elevators, to record who gets on and off

In high traffic areas

In hallway intersections - probably where the different wings of the buildings intersect on each floor. IIRC from photos of MB, there are three different wings of the building. Assume there are some doors or other kind of entryway when you go from one wing to another. There are probably cameras there on each floor.

Check the last PC where this was discussed. MB never said they don't have cameras on the floors, they said they don't have cameras lining the hallways on each floor.

Whomever gave you that link needs to do some research or listen to the PC's before they spread something that's highly misleading, at best. It makes the source for that theory look unprofessional and sloppy.

 

[Spice]

Yes, denying the horror their experience because it doesn'y match the narrative the corporate M$M wants to craft, seems really mean--like pouring salt in their wounds.

Here's the thing. I do not think anyone is unequivocally denying the voices of victims. What people are saying is that it can be extremely difficult and daunting, even impossible to verify the veracity of information (video, posts, identity, etc) posted on social media, you tube, blogs etc.

The veracity of a source is important. Citing reliable and acceptable sources is very important when stating information as "fact". Like it or not, MSM will vet their sources, and if an error in reporting is made, reliable journalism and MSM will retract and correct any misinformation reported. Due to the ensuing chaos during an event like this even MSM gets it wrong at times. The difference is that due to ethics they will retract. This does not happen on random corners of the internet and SM. People do and say whatever they want on SM. There is no way to verify the veracity. Sadly, the information age is full of consumption of misinformation due to this. I think it is our responsibility as consumers to vet our sources logically.

Videos on youtube or SM can be edited to reflect untruths. Further, videos can also be interpreted by the public incorrectly, whether innocently , or because a person wants to believe a certain narrative or conspiracy regardless of the truth.

A point on somehow dismissing victim narratives consumed on SM or on the internet:

1) Maybe the person posting is an actual victim and maybe not. Please see the rash of scam go fund me accounts that have been created in the wake of this tragedy and others. Please see the presence of attention seekers like Brianna who spread false information in the wake of the tragedy. (Hispanic woman "warned us) . Please see how even MSM has gotten it wrong in past shootings due to chaos and how they retracted misinformation when internet sites and SM never did.

2) If the people posting these recollections are actually survivors of this horrifically traumatic event, I do not believe anyone on this forum seeks to dismiss a survivor or a victim's experience. It is important to understand the dissociative symptoms that occur during the experience of such horrific trauma due to your psyche being overwhelmed. It is important to understand how perception can be clouded during terror and mass chaos. (Ie no one knew where the shots were coming from, victim after victim testified to that) It's a normal reaction to an abnormal situation and is well documented, understood, and researched. Traumatic memories and recollections are different than everyday normative experience memories and recollections.

In light of all of that, I do not believe that saying survivors may have been confused and absolutely terrified during the event which may have effected their recollections of specific detail (how many shooters, where shots were coming from) that no-one could have understood during that time is dismissive. It is just realistic. It also does not mean that their sensory experiences of the traumatic event are not authentic. They are authentic. That is how they experienced the sounds while they were flooded with terror and in the midst of a life and death situation.

We know, definitively , through LE 's repeated assertion, with all of the evidence and resources that they have at their disposal and not our own, that there was only one shooter.