NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #8

[MistyWaters]

What do we know- I have seen no proof of anything

But what of the injuried victims who're living every day now with the proof? I'm certain their response would be that neither you nor I were there, we're not forced to cope with their mental trauma and physical injuries. 58 families grieving, a life cut short....you think they care that strangers want proof?

Sure, we'll eventually learn more details but questions will still remain that nobody can answer because a cowardly lunatic took them to his grave. LE disclosing an ambiguous timeline isn't to blame for what he did. Nor is it respectful to the victims or their families for the media or LE to release blood and gore photos of the aftermath to just to satisfy the wants of the general public.

Link posted earlier, this victim poses the ultimate question imo.

"On Day 19 of her recovery, she was in her hospital room, in the wheelchair, wearing a neck brace and thick compression socks. A humidifier puffed mist above her head. Her daughter Amber Manka, 30, stood by with her own two children.

Ms. Gervais, 56, runs a business servicing trash compactors. She spends — or spent — her weekends riding ATVs in the desert, wearing leather gloves and a full-face helmet. When her husband, a sprint car racer, died after a crash, she raised her two girls on her own.

She had lived a difficult life, she said, which steeled her for challenges. But even for her, this was a lot. “I’m disgusted,” she said of the gunman. “I’m angered, I have all kinds of emotions toward him. Because he took a part of me that I can’t get back.”

She blames her injuries on Mr. Paddock, not the casino or the concert host or gunmakers. “I have nothing against guns. Just him.”

She has no feeling in her legs, and extremely limited use of her arms. Her daughters saw it as a victory when she was able to bend and extend her elbows, something doctors had not expected. She does about three hours of physical therapy a day.

“Why would one person do something like this to people?” she said. “If you’re that unhappy with your life, why hurt others?”

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...reality/ar-AAuaUfX?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp

 

[CARIIS]

But what of the injuried victims who're living every day now with the proof? I'm certain their response would be that neither you nor I were there, we're not forced to cope with their mental trauma and physical injuries. 58 families grieving, a life cut short....you think they care that strangers want proof?

Sure, we'll eventually learn more details but questions will still remain that nobody can answer because a cowardly lunatic took them to his grave. LE disclosing an ambiguous timeline isn't to blame for what he did. Nor is it respectful to the victims or their families for the media or LE to release blood and gore photos of the aftermath to just to satisfy the wants of the general public.

Link posted earlier, this victim poses the ultimate question imo.

"On Day 19 of her recovery, she was in her hospital room, in the wheelchair, wearing a neck brace and thick compression socks. A humidifier puffed mist above her head. Her daughter Amber Manka, 30, stood by with her own two children.

Ms. Gervais, 56, runs a business servicing trash compactors. She spends — or spent — her weekends riding ATVs in the desert, wearing leather gloves and a full-face helmet. When her husband, a sprint car racer, died after a crash, she raised her two girls on her own.

She had lived a difficult life, she said, which steeled her for challenges. But even for her, this was a lot. “I’m disgusted,” she said of the gunman. “I’m angered, I have all kinds of emotions toward him. Because he took a part of me that I can’t get back.”

She blames her injuries on Mr. Paddock, not the casino or the concert host or gunmakers. “I have nothing against guns. Just him.”

She has no feeling in her legs, and extremely limited use of her arms. Her daughters saw it as a victory when she was able to bend and extend her elbows, something doctors had not expected. She does about three hours of physical therapy a day.

“Why would one person do something like this to people?” she said. “If you’re that unhappy with your life, why hurt others?”

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...reality/ar-AAuaUfX?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp

I dont think anyone is saying there not shooters there that night only that the senoir citizen mass shooter is questionable

Listening to this the Broadcastify recording -- and I wonder if MGM is really freaked out cause it sounds like them locking the elevators delayed SWAT --go to around 40

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/...o-traffic-recordings-from-las-vegas-shooting/

 

[CARIIS]

Why in the world would the airport let planes continue to land with shooters on the ground at the airport?

Were they given instructions by FBI to do this?

Call me naive, anyone running an airport would have notified an incoming pilot to go to the closest airport. IMO.

that is what blew my mind -- moreso with pilot he gave his clearance back and proceeded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it is the ATC recordings that night but I cant find it if some of you can pls link it was mind boggling

I know ATC and pilots remain cool -- but IMO using another runway just does not cut it IMO !!

I would not land after being told that

 

[MistyWaters]

Why in the world would the airport let planes continue to land with shooters on the ground at the airport?

Were they given instructions by FBI to do this?

Call me naive, anyone running an airport would have notified an incoming pilot to go to the closest airport. IMO.

About the airport, there were no shooters. It was fans who were fleeing --

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/in-shooting-chaos-las-vegas-airport-became-a-safe-haven

 

[canadiangirl]

About the airport, there were no shooters. It was fans who were fleeing --

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/in-shooting-chaos-las-vegas-airport-became-a-safe-haven

I find it odd there are reports of active shooters in other places but people are just chalking it up to people being confused. Moo

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[bluesneakers]

I find it odd there are reports of active shooters in other places but people are just chalking it up to people being confused. Moo

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Where do you see people chalking it up to people being confused? It helps to read the article before deciding.

In the chaos of the massacre, some panicked concert-goers headed to the airport in the belief that it provided the best opportunity for safety, even if they had to force their way through the perimeter. At the time of the shooting, rumours were flying around about active shooters and bomb threats at a number of Las Vegas casinos, so they chose to get to the airport.

“We were making the decision — we’re headed to the airport. The airport seems like the most secure, safe place,” said Fred Rowbotham, an off-duty police officer from the San Diego area who was in the crowd that went to McCarran

As concert-goers fled to McCarran and other locations on the Las Vegas Strip, controllers continued to warn pilots that the confusion on the runways caused by the shooting may affect arriving and departing flights.

 

[canadiangirl]

Where do you see people chalking it up to people being confused? It helps to read the article before deciding.

I'm not just referring to this article. I'm referring to comments made in forums, MSM, articles etc. As it's been mentioned before I haven't seen evidence yet of a lone wolf, or one shooter.. Moo

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[MistyWaters]

I dont think anyone is saying there not shooters there that night only that the senoir citizen mass shooter is questionable

Listening to this the Broadcastify recording -- and I wonder if MGM is really freaked out cause it sounds like them locking the elevators delayed SWAT --go to around 40

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/...o-traffic-recordings-from-las-vegas-shooting/

Okay, to be fair please let's not insinuate that a typical 64 "senior citizen" wouldn't be capable of planning and executing this massacre based on age alone. Many of us here are probably around that age and are most certainly not feeble or infirm.

In this news report, several gun stores were mentioned. Not everyone is talking and I notice no mention of SPs presence at shooting ranges. While we're aware of his habit of spending long hours at casinos, how much time did he spend at shooting ranges in the last year? It's not difficult to imagine how he might've devoted the same high level of intensive compulsion into shooting as he did gambling. However it's not surprising why others would be reluctant to talk to the media about it, given what later occurred.

Was he involved in tactical gun competitions as well?

".........At New Frontier Armory in Las Vegas, owner David Famiglietti told Newsweek that Paddock bought a shotgun and rifle there last spring for $3,500. He said his employee and Paddock talked about how the customer wanted to use them for a tactical gun competition."
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/...hen-paddock-bought-his-guns-it-was-all-legal/

 

[MistyWaters]

I find it odd there are reports of active shooters in other places but people are just chalking it up to people being confused. Moo

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

It's helpful to read the link. There were no shooters at the airport and nobody was shot at the airport. Those who breached the parameter of the airport were frightened people fleeing for safety from the nearby festival grounds.

 

[Gooddeeds]

About the airport, there were no shooters. It was fans who were fleeing --

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/in-shooting-chaos-las-vegas-airport-became-a-safe-haven

-whether or not there were shooters it is still risky to proceed with flight activities.
It mentions being just a few hundred feet away from MB. I am unfamiliar with the source of this article. Do we know if it’s MSM?

SNIPS from it:
“Unlike other cities where the airport is on the outskirts, McCarran is located in the heart of Las Vegas. It’s only a few hundred feet from Las Vegas Strip properties like the Mandalay Bay and Luxor.

“As concert-goers fled to McCarran and other locations on the Las Vegas Strip, controllers continued to warn pilots that the confusion on the runways caused by the shooting may affect arriving and departing flights”

“There is some personnel on one of the upper levels of the Mandalay Bay, so ***departing might be a bit dangerous,”****a controller told pilots, according to a recording posted by LiveATC.net. “We may not be landing any more here for the next few hours.”

 

[canadiangirl]

It's helpful to read the link. There were no shooters at the airport and nobody was shot at the airport. Those who breached the parameter of the airport were frightened people fleeing for safety from the nearby festival grounds.

I read the article, still operating flights while there is an active shooter(s) a mere few hundred feet away? If this "sniper" was raining bullets at fuel tanks at the airport it seems irrational flights were operating.. Moo

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[Manterro]

This whole story can be drawn out in so many ways. Whoever was behind it successfully pulled it off. The simple fact remains that all real evidence is being withheld from the public. If there is no other suspects to arrest, then withholding the information can only be for political purposes. JMO

 

[Fairy1]

We should understand that this was a huge crime scene, with many murdered and wounded. There are over 20,000 witnesses. It's been just under a month and it's an active investigation. I understand the public's desire for answers, but maybe we should give LE some time to investigate.

 

[CARIIS]

-whether or not there were shooters it is still risky to proceed with flight activities.
It mentions being just a few hundred feet away from MB. I am unfamiliar with the source of this article. Do we know if it’s MSM?

SNIPS from it:
“Unlike other cities where the airport is on the outskirts, McCarran is located in the heart of Las Vegas. It’s only a few hundred feet from Las Vegas Strip properties like the Mandalay Bay and Luxor.

“As concert-goers fled to McCarran and other locations on the Las Vegas Strip, controllers continued to warn pilots that the confusion on the runways caused by the shooting may affect arriving and departing flights”

“There is some personnel on one of the upper levels of the Mandalay Bay, so ***departing might be a bit dangerous,”****a controller told pilots, according to a recording posted by LiveATC.net. “We may not be landing any more here for the next few hours.”

I think that is it!!! would you link it

is it the long one

that was where the runway changes were made

the interaction with the pilot

etc etc

it was like I think 29 minutes i think

did the one you saw have the helicopters on it ??

 

[MistyWaters]

I read the article, still operating flights while there is an active shooter(s) a mere few hundred feet away? If this "sniper" was raining bullets at fuel tanks at the airport it seems irrational flights were operating.. Moo

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Are you suggesting the airport was operational as if nothing occured because that's not so. Flights were diverted until the early hours of the following morning.

Jason Aldean was also still singing while the shooting began. Many in the crowd thought the gunfire was fireworks or fire crackers. But the folks at the airport should've had the ability to determine there was a sniper shooting out the windows of the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay and shut the airport down in seconds? That a WestJet Boeing 737, already given clearance to land can suddenly turn on a dime and hike it on upward to head to another airport? I don't know, seems like something only possible in the movies.

 

[CARIIS]

Okay, to be fair please let's not insinuate that a typical 64 "senior citizen" wouldn't be capable of planning and executing this massacre based on age alone. Many of us here are probably around that age and are most certainly not feeble or infirm.

In this news report, several gun stores were mentioned. Not everyone is talking and I notice no mention of SPs presence at shooting ranges. While we're aware of his habit of spending long hours at casinos, how much time did he spend at shooting ranges in the last year? It's not difficult to imagine how he might've devoted the same high level of intensive compulsion into shooting as he did gambling. However it's not surprising why others would be reluctant to talk to the media about it, given what later occurred.

Was he involved in tactical gun competitions as well?

".........At New Frontier Armory in Las Vegas, owner David Famiglietti told Newsweek that Paddock bought a shotgun and rifle there last spring for $3,500. He said his employee and Paddock talked about how the customer wanted to use them for a tactical gun competition."
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/...hen-paddock-bought-his-guns-it-was-all-legal/

my notions about age were based o several things

not age alone!

his greenish skin color not exactly a healthy look !

lifestyle -- sitting on a chair and sleeping all day

shooting those things requires physical strength

the notion that he could do that for 11 minutes imo is doubtful

check it out pretty intense

so according to what they have given us

he gambled for hrs the night before

they claim he was behind the curtain

so lets make it nighttime

a hailstorm of bullets ejecting creating smoke and heat

64 year old eyes

64 year old lungs that seem to be able to breath in smoke from 2000 bullets behind a heavy curtain does not get winded, or tired and can see ok ???

somehow does not miss and hit anything but people and asphalt

for 11 minutes pretty much nonstop

look at the kickback

the way the bullets eject

some speculation that they cleaned up the room -- so they would leave all the bullets around a dead man while cleaning up the 2000 rounds before the pics were shot while leaving bullets all nice and stuff around a dead dude??

[video=youtube;rm0CG05quS8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0CG05quS8[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

Are you suggesting the airport was operational as if nothing occured because that's not so. Flights were diverted until the early hours of the following morning.

Jason Aldean was also still singing while the shooting began. Many in the crowd thought the gunfire was fireworks or fire crackers. But the folks at the airport should've had the ability to determine there was a sniper shooting out the windows of the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay and shut the airport down in seconds? That a WestJet Boeing 737, already given clearance to land can suddenly turn on a dime and hike it on upward to head to another airport? I don't know, seems like something only possible in the movies.

actually as incredible as it sounds that it is not accurate!

they left the airport operating

I am into aviation

there first divert was not until an insane 69
minutes after the first shot was fired.

2 minutes later they landed an aircraft

21 minutes later they landed another aircraft

the actual long shutdown was even after that


that night i was shocked when i finally heard that the airport had been entirely shut

it was LATE!!

here are actual landing/diverting times

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-airport-delays-shooting-20171002-story.html

and yes the 737 has amazing go around ability

[video=youtube;fmOQr6RqAuI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmOQr6RqAuI[/video]

I have seen them live - they are actually riveting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX3W-xcTJqs


As concert-goers fled to McCarran and other locations on the Las Vegas Strip, controllers continued to warn pilots that the confusion on the runways caused by the shooting may affect arriving and departing flights.

it blew my mind -- and the airport was quite busy prior watching the tapes they were busy before they kinda shut it down

it was not a shut down till ages later ages ......

a real shutdown is formal -- they were chatting back and forth a formal cessation of operations was not till way later

it was kinda like !

we got a bunch of people on your runway be careful !!

and then the we got active shooters on the runway!!

and then kinda like well there is a mass shooting going on ya want us to to change your runway

then it was like ( this was a departure ) we got a bunch of people within the airport itself give me a minute I am gonna try to get you guys out of here !!

then it was like to the dude that works for the airport that was on the runways checking the runways

it was as absurd as all the rest of it

find the LAPD helicopter tracks -- I am trying -- things become much more sinister

chilling stuff my friends ............

 

[MistyWaters]

We should understand that this was a huge crime scene, with many murdered and wounded. There are over 20,000 witnesses. It's been just under a month and it's an active investigation. I understand the public's desire for answers, but maybe we should give LE some time to investigate.

I agree, it must be an extremely challenging investigation. Many of the witnesses were also tourists who left immediately and as far as tracing Paddock's past, it appeared he was never in one place for long regardless of his home.

It will take time.

 

[Manterro]

Are you suggesting the airport was operational as if nothing occured because that's not so. Flights were diverted until the early hours of the following morning.

Jason Aldean was also still singing while the shooting began. Many in the crowd thought the gunfire was fireworks or fire crackers. But the folks at the airport should've had the ability to determine there was a sniper shooting out the windows of the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay and shut the airport down in seconds? That a WestJet Boeing 737, already given clearance to land can suddenly turn on a dime and hike it on upward to head to another airport? I don't know, seems like something only possible in the movies.

[FONT=&amp]From 2:51 - 2:55 in this video, it looks like you can see a plane taking off from the airport. If you look on the roof of the stage, the plane passes from the left to right. The shooting had just started so the airport was probably unaware of just how serious the situation was. I'm sorta surprised that Paddock didn't try shooting at the planes. Anything would have been possible with a psychopath like him. JMO[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]https://youtu.be/JpsqirFRdTo[/FONT]

 

[CARIIS]

This is flight radar 24 we use it on aviation accidents

yes it is on Yt it is how radar tracks look when converted for the public guys

it is congruent the LA TImes stuff

its not a huge CT!!

Some interesting notions -- jmo

The police helicopter turns off his transponder above the runway .............. moo

pay very special attn to transponder jump around 450......notice where the transponder is turned back on -- it is from a place where a helicopter can touch down (not on the main runway !) and darts out of dodge so fast. imo

Notice the speed it is traveling prior to transponder cut off and then the speed at which it goes afterwards..much faster than the incoming approach. just pondering

In addition pay attn to forward speed once the police helicopter is within airport boundaries-- forward motion stops .

IMO This is a helicopter landing guys .

However when fleeing the area quickly -- you would want your transponder back on

moo

[video=youtube;v0lf5AYWKoE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0lf5AYWKoE[/video]