NV - Jessica Valenzuela, 32, dead, 36 injured, car plows into crowd, Las Vegas, 20 Dec 2015 *arrest*

[flourish]

Bad people do bad things. Sometimes just because they want to.

She said it herself. She was in pain and wanted others to feel her pain.

Right, but what about her and her situation and psyche led her to actually act on that where others wouldn't? What factors led to her loss of logic and morals and impulse control?

You can be satisfied with "bad." But don't criticize me for not.

 

[bluesneakers]

Right right someone doesn't spend every post simply degrading and re-admonishing, and wants to look at other aspects of the situation. So many times posters lament, "what made this person do this?" but actually discussing those factors here is apparently defending and excusing.

I'm interested in learning more about what led this woman to do this horrendous act. It wasn't just one thing or one person. It was a combination of things that happened and the timing and how her particular psyche was impacted along with her temperament and resiliency factors, etc. I find it interesting in a psychological, sociological, criminalogical manner. That's what I love about websleuths --looking at so many facets of a case and people. I find it boring and short-sighted and, frankly, naive to just jump in the "they're evil" "it was reefer madness" "for a guy" bandwagons and leave it at that. There is always more to it. Life is nuanced.

I completely agree. I think it's important to be open-minded even if you have strong feelings one way or the other. In this case there's what happened, which was tragic and awful and criminal and terrifying, on and on, and there's what will happen after - the plea, witness testimony, the trial, the evidence, the sentence or lack thereof. But there's also the history of the event - how she got there, why she got there, what happened along the way and what if this thing or that thing had been different?

In the end we're sitting at our computers googling and chatting with one another, it's not like any of us can actually DO anything (in this case anyway), so why is it a problem to practice a little compassion, or curiousity, or empathy for everyone who was involved? Anger as well. When I look at the map my blood boils. However I'm trying to not judge her and dismiss her as evil and deranged because I'm not going to learn anything if I let those emotions take over.

JMO YMMV etc.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Right, but what about her and her situation and psyche led her to actually act on that where others wouldn't? What factors led to her loss of logic and morals and impulse control?

You can be satisfied with "bad." But don't criticize me for not.

I haven't criticized you.
Please point to the post where I criticized you.

 

[flourish]

She didn't plow down those people because she was tired.

She made every choice that got her into the predicament she was in.

Those people on that street were completely innocent and were injured and one died because of this disgusting person's choices.

And probably 90% of this thread is posts defending this monster.

And people wonder why our country is so screwed up.

JMO

Anyway.. .

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Anyway.. .

I'm confused. I did not criticize you in that post. I stated an opinion. It was not directed at you. You were not named.

I stand by my opinion that I don't think people should make excuses for animals like this.

Everything that comes out about this person is quickly defended. Even drug use.

That's not open minded IMO.

 

[flourish]

Lol, okay. Consider your drift caught.

 

[MsFacetious]

We have a dismal mental health care system in this country.
My mother was hospitalized for a full week in October, she nearly died.
Because she is on Medicare we cannot find a mental health professional who will see her.
Because she is on Medicare it is illegal for her to pay cash for medical services.

So... 2 months after her release from the hospital?
There is no one to give her a new prescription for the meds the hospital put her on.
Stopping them suddenly can cause seizures or a psychotic break.
Both of which she's had a history of.

We are well educated and know how to work the system.
My mother was a nurse.
Yet even WE cannot manage to get the help we need.
It's no surprise that many people end up self medicating.
If they are going to do so, weed is certainly a viable option.
It's one of the few "drugs" that can actual help psychological and physical conditions.

If she was habitually using weed to control mental illness, that might make her a BETTER mother.
I would have much preferred to grow up with my mother smoking weed and stable...
Rather than my mother in the throes of uncontrolled mental illness like I did.

If she was habitually using it and stable... and then ran out?
That could be a disaster... just like running out of your prescription meds.
I wonder if that might have been the trigger for her downward spiral.
Running out of what kept her stable... only being able to get it once in a while.
Then running out completely.... :scared:

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Has there been anything at all released that said she has mental health issues? From what the family spokesperson says she's a totally normal, good hearted, loving, successful person who has a home, job, and family in OR.

She said this is totally unlike her cousin and she must have fallen asleep at the wheel. Twice it seems.

 

[CARIIS]

My take is folks can have a hard time when discussion enters into "causation" which then leads some who believe that looking for that is looking for an excuse - its not its looking for a reason.

Discovering a reason does not eradicate responsibilty but provides insight.

To attribute everything to "evil" for an excuse does not provide a reason, which IMO the human brain must do (compared to instict in doggies). It is what makes humans the most inteligent iving creature.

The reason for that is a "reason". There profound and fascinating studies that have been done in the arena of insomnis, sleep depreived, and the profound results from those issues.

Some people can become psycotic and hallucinate when deprived , the human animal must have sleep, or the brain will misfire and very negative things can result. No tires - car wont move. Simple.

In addition they do not need to be mutually exclusive -And instead of inserting the word "excuse", the notion of understanding comes to mind.

But in the medical feild, focusing on cognition, sleep is important work.

There is a big difference between between being "tired" and sleep depreived. Exhaustion is different as well

Its kinda like pain, there are levels of it. Someone being tired minimizes the profound imact of being actually not able , for whatever resason, cycle through to get into REM cycle of sleep. That is the restorative cycle.

You see a dog in REM when it moves its paws, eye flutter, mutter,little barks etc.

We do the same thing---REM is actually the segment of sleep that benefits the human mind

[video=youtube;VA4n1_U_XlE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA4n1_U_XlE[/video]


QUOTE=bluesneakers;12269142]I completely agree. I think it's important to be open-minded even if you have strong feelings one way or the other. In this case there's what happened, which was tragic and awful and criminal and terrifying, on and on, and there's what will happen after - the plea, witness testimony, the trial, the evidence, the sentence or lack thereof. But there's also the history of the event - how she got there, why she got there, what happened along the way and what if this thing or that thing had been different?

In the end we're sitting at our computers googling and chatting with one another, it's not like any of us can actually DO anything (in this case anyway), so why is it a problem to practice a little compassion, or curiousity, or empathy for everyone who was involved? Anger as well. When I look at the map my blood boils. However I'm trying to not judge her and dismiss her as evil and deranged because I'm not going to learn anything if I let those emotions take over.

JMO YMMV etc.[/QUOTE]

 

[CARIIS]

bad choices can happen when sleep depreived .......

reasoning is impaired etc

 

[CARIIS]

Right right someone doesn't spend every post simply degrading and re-admonishing, and wants to look at other aspects of the situation. So many times posters lament, "what made this person do this?" but actually discussing those factors here is apparently defending and excusing.

I'm interested in learning more about what led this woman to do this horrendous act. It wasn't just one thing or one person. It was a combination of things that happened and the timing and how her particular psyche was impacted along with her temperament and resiliency factors, etc. I find it interesting in a psychological, sociological, criminalogical manner. That's what I love about websleuths --looking at so many facets of a case and people. I find it boring and short-sighted and, frankly, naive to just jump in the "they're evil" "it was reefer madness" "for a guy" bandwagons and leave it at that. There is always more to it. Life is nuanced.

Nice post! and....rarely is it one thing that does other things

Its cumuaaltive entity, timing, processing what is being felt, thought.


By all accounts she was a good mother, a good employee, somethings, plural, obvioulsy changed that.

Does that make her a monster- of course not. Does that make her evil of course not. Did that make her do bad behavior yes

monsters are in the movies!

Very rarely does hating on another person result in any thing positive, nor is it helpful in "understanding" anything at all.

 

[CARIIS]

I just don't understand how her past gets her any sympathy for what she's done.

One can be empathetic for both her and the victims.

IMO, however, for all of us our past totally and completly is the foundation for who each of us are every day

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Again, with all the talk on this thread about our mental health system being inadequate in this country...

Has there been anything at all released that said she has mental health issues? From what the family spokesperson says she's a totally normal, good hearted, loving, successful person who has a home, job, and family in OR.

She said this is totally unlike her cousin and she must have fallen asleep at the wheel. Twice it seems.

So where does the mental health system come into play? Or where should it have come into play? For this case, as we know, where did it fail her?

What's the relation to this case?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I just don't understand how her past gets her any sympathy for what she's done.

One can be empathetic for both her and the victims.

IMO, however, for all of us our past totally and completly is the foundation for who each of us are every day

I would agree with you if every person (or even 5% of people) that had an alcoholic, undereducated mother and became homeless in high school became homicidal after being awarded opportunities in life that most don't get.

Sure it was a hard life. But everybody has stresses and struggles. It's life.

You can't blame your past for your present.

I have no empathy for this murderer. NONE.

She had opportunities.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I wonder how much empathy one would have for her if it was their child, mother, sister, or friend that was drug 200 ft under that car.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I guess since our past makes us who we are and we should feel empathy for this murderer, then we should feel empathy for everybody. Murderers, child molesters, abusers, terrorists.... They all have a past right?
I don't think that matters much to the victims or the ones who love them.

Her past, that we know of, was extremely mild considering what MANY MANY people go through.

 

[bluesneakers]

Again, with all the talk on this thread about our mental health system being inadequate in this country...

Has there been anything at all released that said she has mental health issues? From what the family spokesperson says she's a totally normal, good hearted, loving, successful person who has a home, job, and family in OR.

She said this is totally unlike her cousin and she must have fallen asleep at the wheel. Twice it seems.

So where does the mental health system come into play? Or where should it have come into play? For this case, as we know, where did it fail her?

What's the relation to this case?

Has there been anything released saying she doesn't have a mental illness?

If her family describes her normal, good-hearted, loving, and successful that would make this incident seem out-of-character, and why would someone good-hearted and loving suddenly drive onto a sidewalk filled with people?

Besides that - there's nothing wrong with speculating based on what we do know or have observed (and what her attorney has said), and talking about mental illness and mental health care isn't off-limits, is it?

 

[flourish]

AFAIK, we're speculating...discussing possible FACTORS. Not excuses...nothing makes what she did okay or excusable. Factors in environment, psyche, etc. which led this supposedly well-functioning woman to throw out all basic respect for human life and the well-being of herself and her child. It wasn't a drug or alcohol induced psychosis, but it also wasn't just pure evil, as I don't accept THAT as a reasonable and conclusive seeing how "evil" has no definitive way to observe and define it (unless you're that guy from tv a few years back who had the evil index)

 

[bluesneakers]

my take is folks can have a hard time when discussion enters into "causation" which then leads some who believe that looking for that is looking for an excuse - its not its looking for a reason.

Discovering a reason does not eradicate responsibilty but provides insight.

To attribute everything to "evil" for an excuse does not provide a reason, which imo the human brain must do (compared to instict in doggies). It is what makes humans the most inteligent iving creature.

The reason for that is a "reason". There profound and fascinating studies that have been done in the arena of insomnis, sleep depreived, and the profound results from those issues.

Some people can become psycotic and hallucinate when deprived , the human animal must have sleep, or the brain will misfire and very negative things can result. No tires - car wont move. Simple.

In addition they do not need to be mutually exclusive -and instead of inserting the word "excuse", the notion of understanding comes to mind.

But in the medical feild, focusing on cognition, sleep is important work.

There is a big difference between between being "tired" and sleep depreived. Exhaustion is different as well

its kinda like pain, there are levels of it. Someone being tired minimizes the profound imact of being actually not able , for whatever resason, cycle through to get into rem cycle of sleep. That is the restorative cycle.

You see a dog in rem when it moves its paws, eye flutter, mutter,little barks etc.

We do the same thing---rem is actually the segment of sleep that benefits the human mind

Sleep deprivation is a form of torture. The CIA used it in Guantanamo.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Has there been anything released saying she doesn't have a mental illness?

If her family describes her normal, good-hearted, loving, and successful that would make this incident seem out-of-character, and why would someone good-hearted and loving suddenly drive onto a sidewalk filled with people?

Besides that - there's nothing wrong with speculating based on what we do know or have observed (and what her attorney has said), and talking about mental illness and mental health care isn't off-limits, is it?

I never said anything was off limits.

I'm asking how the system could have helped her if she was normal, good-hearted, loving, and successful. If she had no prior mental health issues how could the system have helped her?