NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #10

[guitar3]

I must have missed a prior conversation, but the link clearly states that the time line has been intentionally obscured by laytonian. I cant imagine that simple frustration with the new energy on the thread brought it down, but laytonian knows for sure.

Any new information on the bones discovered or the dockers? I have not seen anything in the press closing the loop.

Here's the right article about the bones & dockers...


http://www.standard.net/topics/sear...ch-nevada-desert-offers-few-clues-missing-man

 

[RubyRed]

I have asked Sarx to answer about cadaver dogs and skeletal remains ,or any questions we have, as she is verified as animal search and rescue here at WS.

 

[sarx]

Ok - let me try to clear up some things here. The dogs that were present on Saturday were pets of some of the searchers. I believe one was the PI's and another was his neighbor's dog. Those were the only 2 I saw.

We've been told the PI does not believe cadaver dogs could hit on skeletal remains. I beg to differ. The climate, I believe, was the reason given. Again, I beg to differ. We're talking about the winter months here, which have been quite mild in Vegas/Henderson. Though I have not found anything at all to support the climate claim under any circumstances.

I do know that search dogs were utilized in the first search back in December. That information has been verified by the Nevada Center for Missing Loved Ones, who were on that search.

Hi there, just coming in to try and help clarify some of the dog questions.

I cannot imagine the reason why anyone would say that cadaver dogs could not hit on human remains, unless they just didn't know what they were talking about. That is exactly what they are trained to do.

Winter months in a place like Las Vegas would have no impact either. Perhaps I could see some thread of logic if we were talking some high alpine area with 10 ft of snow, but even that is quite questionable (the issue would more be if the dog had never trained in snow, not that they can't smell through it. Think of avalanche dogs, that is precisely what they are trained to do.)

Hope that helps. Let me know if there are any other SAR or dog related questions and I'd be happy to help.

 

[ms_writer]

I haven't posted in a while, because I haven't had anything new to add to the conversation. However, rest assured that I check this thread multiple times a day, and have read each and every post.

That said. . . . I want to publicly thank Laytonian for her amazing efforts on this case. Her dogged determination, whipsmart deductions, willingness to fairly play devil's advocate, acting as family liaison, spending untold hours on research, and construction of the amazing timeline have done more to find answers about Steven's case than we could have ever done without her.

Thank you, Laytonian.

 

[Fairy1]

Hi there, just coming in to try and help clarify some of the dog questions.

I cannot imagine the reason why anyone would say that cadaver dogs could not hit on human remains, unless they just didn't know what they were talking about. That is exactly what they are trained to do.

Winter months in a place like Las Vegas would have no impact either. Perhaps I could see some thread of logic if we were talking some high alpine area with 10 ft of snow, but even that is quite questionable (the issue would more be if the dog had never trained in snow, not that they can't smell through it. Think of avalanche dogs, that is precisely what they are trained to do.)

Hope that helps. Let me know if there are any other SAR or dog related questions and I'd be happy to help.

Thank you so much sarx!

And just so everyone knows, although we were not aware what tip led to the search area, I was told privately, by a reliable source, that we WERE looking for remains.

 

[Fairy1]

I haven't posted in a while, because I haven't had anything new to add to the conversation. However, rest assured that I check this thread multiple times a day, and have read each and every post.

That said. . . . I want to publicly thank Laytonian for her amazing efforts on this case. Her dogged determination, whipsmart deductions, willingness to fairly play devil's advocate, acting as family liaison, spending untold hours on research, and construction of the amazing timeline have done more to find answers about Steven's case than we could have ever done without her.

Thank you, Laytonian.

Thank you, ms_writer (I was just thinking about you this morning!). I totally agree.

I'm not sure what has occurred here today to set everything off course but, really, is that necessary at this point? Really?

Steven is still missing.

 

[Lato]

I have printed the timeline often during the past months, but of course the links are not there.

It is almost impossible to work without a timeline.

Any suggestions?

 

[ms_writer]

I agree, Fairy. It's sad, because I know we're all here (even if we mainly lurk and think!) for a good cause; we all have the best of intentions. I know we're all frusterated, but I for one certainly don't think scrapping it all and starting over is a good idea.

Something I haven't shared for a long time, but finally will: My SO is a police investigator, who has what I jokingly call "the computer brain." He has a great ability to take in massive info, quickly draw deductions, and sum up scenarios in a sentence. When I told him all the details of Steven's case, he immediately said "suicide." That was never my first choice of what happened, so my opinion didn't color his reasoning. I asked why, then, would he leave his car in a retirement community. His answer was that Steven knew the car would be found quickly, since older folks are usually so vigilant.

I think we can poke holes in just about every scenario we've come up with, so I'm not saying that option is flawless. But maybe his "police thinking" is similar to the Henderson/LV "police thinking," which is why we haven't seen this pursued to the extent we would have liked.

Also, there was a time when AMN didn't have her Facebook status updates hidden. I thought it was very interesting that she was excited about a weekend trip with friends in St George and Vegas. This was after Steven went missing, but it didn't sound like it was part of a search. All that to say, maybe there is something to the theory that after the failed encounter in RV, he was trailing her across the southwest.

Sorry for the novel. I guess that's what you get when you come back out of lurkdom.

 

[believe09]

I have printed the timeline often during the past months, but of course the links are not there.

It is almost impossible to work without a timeline.

Any suggestions?

Would you be interested in reconstructing it? Sounds like you might have the bones to put it back together. Wasnt it community property based upon all of the questions and work everyone did?

 

[Lato]

Would you be interested in reconstructing it? Sounds like you might have the bones to put it back together. Wasnt it community property based upon all of the questions and work everyone did?

I do not have the talent that Laytonian has. I do have the dates and events, but I could hardly put together what she has done.

 

[imaginethat]

I have printed the timeline often during the past months, but of course the links are not there.

It is almost impossible to work without a timeline.

Any suggestions?

If you (or anyone) googles Steven Koecher timeline, you can press the "cache" button and pull up the entire timeline.

Timeline

Someone may want to copy it elsewhere as it won't be available for too long on the cached link.

 

[Fairy1]

I do not have the talent that Laytonian has. I do have the dates and events, but I could hardly put together what she has done.

It's ironic - I just printed it out last night as I can't access it while at work and I wanted to be able to refer to it at all times. Isn't that weird? I haven't printed it out in ages!

 

[believe09]

I do not have the talent that Laytonian has. I do have the dates and events, but I could hardly put together what she has done.

Perhaps someone else can take the info and try then?

The Koechers must be on such a roller coaster, not knowing what to hope for. Does anyone know if the dockers were located close to the squatters camp? That is how I read the article that guitar was kind enough to link.

 

[believe09]

If you (or anyone) googles Steven Koecher timeline, you can press the "cache" button and pull up the entire timeline.

Timeline

Someone may want to copy it elsewhere as it won't be available for too long on the cached link.

Cool, thanks! Now everyone can have it.

 

[ms_writer]

Cool, thanks! Now everyone can have it.

Well, I copy/pasted the whole thing into a Word doc for posterity. But the cached version is from 11 April -- was much added since then?

Edited to add: It just occurred to me what a real travesty the timeline's removal it. It wasn't just for Websleuths' use, it was also linked in Jaxson's articles and on the Find Steven Facebook page. It's one thing to hamper our efforts here because of hurt feelings, but it's another altogether to hamper efforts of his friends, family and the news-reading public! I'm so saddened by this.

 

[Fairy1]

The timeline cannot be checked if it is not available-I definitely missed something here in the dynamics.

Why should the discussion on this missing man and his case come to a stand still for any reason other than because he has been found?

There was a tip, a search, evidence collected and discounted. There are locals posting and tips being called in, even if they are then ruled out. That is all good stuff in my eyes.

The discussion has not come to a stand still. It has been derailed.

I am local and I worked the search last Saturday. I have been to the spot where Steven's car was found, I have been all over Las Vegas with Steven's flyers, attended the press conference, done endless research and met his lovely family.

I look for Steven EVERY DAY in the faces that I pass in my travels and I've altered my route home from work to pass by the IHOP at which he may or may not have been spotted.

I provided information on cadaver dogs just last evening (the EXACT same portion you posted today) and I am here for the duration.

Lots and lots of the regular posters on Steven's case have done a tremendous amount of work here - all of which is recorded and available. Yes, we get frustrated. Yes, we get pizzed. We argue and disagree and we're still here.

I sincerely appreciate the benefit of new eyes - on any case that I work. But to completely discount what others have done and imply is lacking is tragic and wasteful.

There's been a lot of "good stuff."

 

[imaginethat]

Well, I copy/pasted the whole thing into a Word doc for posterity. But the cached version is from 11 April -- was much added since then? Also, none of the subpages/links work. There go the Q&A, maps, etc.

Edited to add: It just occurred to me what a real travesty the timeline's removal it. It wasn't just for Websleuths' use, it was also linked in Jaxson's articles and on the Find Steven Facebook page. It's one thing to hamper our efforts here because of hurt feelings, but it's another altogether to hamper efforts of his friends, family and the news-reading public! I'm so saddened by this.

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Car position Images

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I don't have time to go through all of the links, but the same thing can be done with each. Like I said, they won't be there for long.

Also, I agree that it's sad to hinder the search for SK by removing links referenced in news articles.

 

[ms_writer]

I don't have time to go through all of the links, but the same thing can be done with each. Like I said, they won't be there for long.

Also, I agree that it's sad to hinder the search for SK by removing links referenced in news articles.

Ah, thank you! I removed the portion of my original post that highlighted my lack of cache-savvy.

 

[Fairy1]

If we can move past all the drama - there are a couple of things I would like to discuss that actually pertain to the case....

gsmith specifically stated it was believed a "group" was responsible for Steven going missing. What kind of "group" could that be? Skinheads? I know there was a white supremacist group up in Hurricane, UT not too long ago. Hurricane isn't far from St. George. But does this sound like something in which Steven would have been caught up? I just can't see it. What else would be considered a "group?"

Also, WHY would the PI say cadaver dogs wouldn't be effective in the search? By all accounts, that's simply not true. Was the search designed to serve another purpose?

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

What she said, was that Steven never called to confirm it. Which I thought was a bit odd.



Maybe GW didn't call in.
Maybe he just called Steven "Hey I'm in a jam I need you to"...and then when he found out Steven couldn't, he figured he just try.

Maybe PD was so irritated that GW was late (without letting them know), that SA was afraid to mention that he'd already talked to Steven -- so he made the call anyway?

I dunno. It's a men-ocracy there.

PD said "when they realized". If what you are saying is correct...and GW hadn't called, don't you think if they were going to call someone, they would have called GW first? I mean why call in a replacement, if the first guy is possibly on his way?

There may be nothing to this...but to call it a "men-ocracy" could be "allowing" something to slide by that could possibly be important. My husband was in the EQ for two years. These are not dumb men just sitting around trying to call people, they have "work" to do in these meetings. There are expectations of these men.

It is very strange that GW made it home to be seen at church at NOON, but not to the meeting, and without so much as a phone call?

In my scope of "theory", GW would be the only one to know about the NOON meeting; therefore, for some reason making it important to be at church at NOON. NOON...NOON...NOON

This is where it ends. I don't think GW committed a crime, I don't think he nor SK knew of the cameras... Maybe he was helping SK disappear and in some off chance that someone (cameras) saw Steven somewhere at noon, he had to have an alibi??