NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #10

[believe09]

I know that a few have posted dog links-here is what I found on Wikipedia:
"Airscenting and tracking/trailing dogs are often cross-trained as cadaver dogs, although the scent the dog detects is clearly of a different nature than that detected for live or recently-deceased subjects. Cadaver dogs can locate entire bodies (including those buried or submerged), decomposed bodies, body fragments (including blood, tissues, hair, and bones), or skeletal remains; the capability of the dog is dependent upon its training."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_rescue_dog

So maybe the dogs were cross trained as both SAR and cadaver?

 

[hollyblue]

Here is a post from a person who was at the search site saying they should have used dogs.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NV NV-Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson MSG 13 Dec 09 thread #9

No pics of the dogs nor any mention of them in the media. If I have "missed" something on this please let me know and provide a link.

 

[Lato]

Here is a post from a person who was at the search site saying they should have used dogs.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NV NV-Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson MSG 13 Dec 09 thread #9

No pics of the dogs nor any mention of them in the media. If I have "missed" something on this please let me know and provide a link.

Check post #257 on previous page. Guitar was there. I assume the three
dogs were family pets (or not) and did not need to be pictured in the media.
If it is important, maybe Sin City or Fairy1 has a picture.

 

[seekingsusan]

This is the first I've heard of this. Where are the pics with the dogs?

Where is Lay's timeline?

What's going on folks?

That's a good question.

 

[pudd]

I agree that the dogs seen at the search were just family pets out for a day of fun (and they might have come across something "interesting"...) but I think it's a bit careless to bring a family pet when searching for remains.

If you go back to Laytonian's last post, the ---- at the end of her sig is still a live link, and redirects to the timeline, but I can't help but feel Laytonian's a bit miffed about the questioning of the accuracy of the timeline (which was a fabulous effort of collating a whole bunch of information) and has gone off for some cooling down.

I too appreciate newbies joining us with their thoughts and comments, but I'm also kind of irritated when we get questions and ideas that we've been through a bazillion times. Maybe Laytonian is, too? Or maybe "the creek rose" - she mentioned some family things that were going on. I hope she's just busy and will be back soon, and that SOMETHING happens soon in this case.

ETA: oh fuzzbuckets, this is what you get at the link now:

In the interest of a fresh start, fresh eyes, and a new outlook, these pages have been removed so that they do not taint the new WS efforts.

Bugger. Laytonian, pleeeeeeeze come back! Where's that darn cursing emoticon?

 

[believe09]

I agree that the dogs seen at the search were just family pets out for a day of fun (and they might have come across something "interesting"...) but I think it's a bit careless to bring a family pet when searching for remains.

If you go back to Laytonian's last post, the ---- at the end of her sig is still a live link, and redirects to the timeline, but I can't help but feel Laytonian's a bit miffed about the questioning of the accuracy of the timeline (which was a fabulous effort of collating a whole bunch of information) and has gone off for some cooling down.

I too appreciate newbies joining us with their thoughts and comments, but I'm also kind of irritated when we get questions and ideas that we've been through a bazillion times. Maybe Laytonian is, too? Or maybe "the creek rose" - she mentioned some family things that were going on. I hope she's just busy and will be back soon, and that SOMETHING happens soon in this case.

ETA: oh fuzzbuckets, this is what you get at the link now:

Bugger. Laytonian, pleeeeeeeze come back! Where's that darn cursing emoticon?

BBM-really? Now see why I am confused, lol?? There were dogs, no dogs, they were scent dogs, they were family pets....did any of the handlers have ID or shirts identifying a certain dog group?

 

[believe09]

This is the first I've heard of this. Where are the pics with the dogs?

Where is Lay's timeline?

What's going on folks?

I must have missed a prior conversation, but the link clearly states that the time line has been intentionally obscured by laytonian. I cant imagine that simple frustration with the new energy on the thread brought it down, but laytonian knows for sure.

Any new information on the bones discovered or the dockers? I have not seen anything in the press closing the loop.

 

[ding174]

I've gone over this in my head for a day, and the only thing I can come up with is along the same ideas as you.

gangs
mafia
drug cartel
young mob style attack
small group doing home invasion

another WS mentioned: job scam...like those posters placed on light poles

dont forget the other "gangs" ie church groups, religious fanatic groups, gay groups, racial groups - asian, blacks, hispanics, white supremists etc

 

[believe09]

Alrighty then.

Getting back to the search, guitar3 did you see any ID on the handlers of the dogs? Someone as well respected as this PI must have contacts with SAR's. Sometimes it is easier to tell from their website what kind of dogs they specialize in.

Just curious...I would also like to get a better handle on the tip itself-I recall what SWJaxon posted, but it is hard not to believe that the squatter's camp played a role somehow....I cant tell from the FB if the local called it in on 4/9 when he posted the pictures, or earlier since he posted another statement about "two weeks ago."

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?p...335012614&oid=225335012614&fbid=1381763180456

 

[guitar3]

I wasn't there, but from what I've read it seems the dogs were just accompanying people who turned out for the search. "Handlers" weren't wearing shirts/ID, just regular people who volunteered to search and (for some reason) though their furry friends would like a walk in the desert.



Agreed. Carry on, folks! Let me know how it turns out.

Yes, that is exactly what it was like. No one was wearing shirts or vests idenifying themselves as any form of group, just a bunch of people that showed up with their dogs. The first dog I saw was the PI's and I immediately asked if the dog was a cadaver dog because I also was under the impression we were searching for remains and was told no, the dog was not a cadaver dog. When I saw the second dog & third I asked the owners if they also were cadaver dogs and received the same answer. I didn't ask if they were any other scent dogs because from the flyers that were given to us I was under the impression we were searching for human remains. So the dogs could have been other service dogs. I just know they were not cadaver dogs.

 

[ding174]

and was anyone able to id the guy who had the fancy photo equipment that some thought might be a member of the media

 

[guitar3]

Alrighty then.

Getting back to the search, guitar3 did you see any ID on the handlers of the dogs? Someone as well respected as this PI must have contacts with SAR's. Sometimes it is easier to tell from their website what kind of dogs they specialize in.

Just curious...I would also like to get a better handle on the tip itself-I recall what SWJaxon posted, but it is hard not to believe that the squatter's camp played a role somehow....I cant tell from the FB if the local called it in on 4/9 when he posted the pictures, or earlier since he posted another statement about "two weeks ago."

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?p...335012614&oid=225335012614&fbid=1381763180456

No Believe, I didn't see any ID's or badges on the owners or the dog's harnesses which makes me believe they were not any other type of service dogs.

As far as the camp goes that was at the search site...don't quote me but I'm pretty sure it was searched by the PI before our search and that is why he was out there @ 6am but they seem to think it had nothing to do with SK.

 

[guitar3]

and was anyone able to id the guy who had the fancy photo equipment that some thought might be a member of the media

What guy, where???

 

[RubyRed]

IIRC the PI had another tip other than the homeless camp. When they found out about the camp they checked it out also.

 

[ding174]

What guy, where???

he was mentioned on one of the posts by someone who was there during the search. i believed that the search may have been concocted to see who would show up - maybe the "perp" or Perps just like and arsonist likes to be at the scene of a fire he started some form of macabre fascination.
and taking pics of those that showed up was a quick and easy way to record faces and builds and race and age and genders and be able to analyze the pics later using face recognition software. JMO

 

[guitar3]

I must have missed a prior conversation, but the link clearly states that the time line has been intentionally obscured by laytonian. I cant imagine that simple frustration with the new energy on the thread brought it down, but laytonian knows for sure.

Any new information on the bones discovered or the dockers? I have not seen anything in the press closing the loop.

Here's your answer on the bones & dockers.....


http://www.standard.net/topics/sear...nevada-desert-offers-few-clues-missing-mane's

 

[Fairy1]

Ok - let me try to clear up some things here. The dogs that were present on Saturday were pets of some of the searchers. I believe one was the PI's and another was his neighbor's dog. Those were the only 2 I saw.

We've been told the PI does not believe cadaver dogs could hit on skeletal remains. I beg to differ. The climate, I believe, was the reason given. Again, I beg to differ. We're talking about the winter months here, which have been quite mild in Vegas/Henderson. Though I have not found anything at all to support the climate claim under any circumstances.

I do know that search dogs were utilized in the first search back in December. That information has been verified by the Nevada Center for Missing Loved Ones, who were on that search.

 

[ding174]

and too the search was not well organized for an area that was not only vast and desolate but extremely rugged and hostile.
in this case volunteers on horseback (of which there are many who live very near the area because their homes are zoned for horses) would have been a great addition since the rider is higher off the ground and can scan a wider area without expending energy. and he doesnt have to worry about obstacles because the horse sees ahead for him and the rider can better focus on the terrain underfoot and expanding outward.
i really believe he search was a ruse to try to ferret out a suspect or suspects.
IF a crime was involved and if it was indeed a legit search then hope for him being alive is nil.

 

[guitar3]

Here's your answer on the bones & dockers.....


http://www.standard.net/topics/sear...nevada-desert-offers-few-clues-missing-mane's

Sorry Believe...wrong one! i'll search more on the article and get back with you.

 

[Fairy1]

And regarding the homeless campsite: Steven's cousin, Jeff Bradshaw, and another individual (possibly PI) looked at it at 6:30 AM on the day of the search. They didn't see anything that connected it to Steven in that cursory search, but Jeff said that Steven's father was going to look further after the search was over. I've not heard whether he did that or not.

As far as I know, the report & pics of that campsite were sent to the family (via Facebook) just the day prior to the search, which had already been announced. Yes, it was within the search area, but I don't believe it is what actually led to the search. The PI could have investigated it on his own prior to Saturday if that had been the case.