NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #10

[RubyRed]

Does anyone know if Steven collected unemployment?

The SLT job he quit, so I doubt he was eligible for UI.
3 months without pay till next job.

With Matchbin that job apparently wasn't working out ( employer) so UI could be possible on that one, unless he was fired.
7 months is a long time not to have any source of income

 

[carbuff]

There have been some compelling thoughts on the suicide theory today. So sad.

The only thing that keeps me from going with that theory full force is that I can't understand why he would have come to Vegas for that and why he hasn't been found yet.

If he never wanted to be found, he could have gone to any number of areas between Utah and Nevada - or even just Utah. Was it just to leave his car in a safe place until it was found? Why in Henderson?

It just doesn't make sense to me. But then again, neither does suicide.

My own feeling -- I wouldn't call it anything as strong as a theory -- is that he went out onto the golf course, in one of those gullies or ponds, expecting to be found not very long after. The main point being to make sure it wasn't his family who found him. But because the ground is pretty rugged and he's wearing desert-colored clothing, nobody stumbled onto him.

I'll be surprised if he didn't walk out on his life. I'm just not sure how permanent his leaving was.

 

[ding174]

The PI was given a "liable" lead. And that was all that was repeated to us!

LIABLE ? i want a pic of the PI and his dog. this is a lingo term for deniable as in plausible deniability - a play on words its root being LIE. if i had been there and heard that i would have told him "dude im outta here"

which means either everyone or someones been HAD. TSK TSK

 

[laytonian]

I don't think the subject has ever been addressed. It's a good thought, he probably would have been entitled to it. (depending on when he started working for the window and blind cleaning)

Eligibility for UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS (State of Utah website).

He'd have had to provide proof that he was seeking jobs, including a verifiable list of companies he had contacted. If you are sent out by Workforce Services, you have to have a good reason for not taking a job you're referred to.

As an independent contractor, he'd not have been eligible for unemployment. We know he was considered IE under TH, not sure about matchbin.com -- although it does look to be an outside sales position.

 

[laytonian]

First of all, I want to say I'm very happy that Laytonian is back! I also want to thank Believe09 and sarx for joining in and breathing new life into this thread.

For some reason, up until now, I didn't realize that Ruby Valley is 550 miles away from St. George; I guess I had just assumed it was a 2-3 hour drive, but 1100 miles round trip?! That, in my opinion, is a bit far to drive to just 'do some thinking' or even to visit a girl. That is like an 8 hour drive each way. Would Steven really go all that way to visit AN without even knowing if she was there? Was he in that general area for another reason? I find it more than coincidental this drive occurred only a couple of days before his disappearance.

As far as the cell phone pings go, my understanding is that in an urban area, if the closest cell tower is 'busy' with the pings of other phones, then your phone will be pinged off another tower in the area. For example, even though I'm in Greenwich Village, my cell phone could ping off a tower in the Bronx if it were a time of day when lots of people were using their cell phones/had them on. So it's definitely possible that LE is unable to precisely triangulate the last ping on Steven's cell phone, and that they are unable to determine exactly where he was when his phone last pinged.

Right now, though as Laytonian says all the theories have holes, I think suicide seems like the most logical explanation. My biggest problem with this theory, however, is the "HOW", and I haven't seen this discussed on this thread very much at all. If Steven walked out into the desert or up into the hills to commit suicide, how would he have done so? We haven't heard that Steven owned a gun or if he did that it is missing, and if he had recently bought one I'm sure there would be records. Did LE check on this, does anyone know? I seriously doubt Steven would have known where to get one on the black market, and he didn't have the money to buy one anyway. And other than a gun, how would he commit suicide? It could take days to submit to the elements, and it wasn't THAT cold, so I find this scenario unlikely. So other than the elements/gun, what do we have? Hanging? Overdose? Both of these seem unlikely to me as well. I'm sorry if this sounds morbid/graphic; I'm just trying to logically think through the suicide theory, and figure out the "HOW" in order to determine if this scenario is likely. The things that do point in this direction are the not answering calls from friends in recent days and that he didn't cash his grandmother's check or use his parents' money to pay his rent; if he had already decided he was going to commit suicide, he would have seen such expenditures as wasteful.

I'm just so frustrated, and want Steven to be found, wherever he is and whatever state he is in. Again, I want to thank Laytonian for coming back and all of the new posters for their new ideas and contributions. Thank you!

Come on, I wasn't "gone". I went shopping for hours after I took the pages down -- and was quite surprised at the reaction. I'd have hoped that in their absence, the alternative scenarios would have felt freed from captivity This wasn't about me.

Distance: I know it's hard to see on the timeline, but I put the "miles so far" down on every stop.

Gun: We asked that of Naegle, and she said (as far as the family knows), he didn't own one. Of course, in Utah, guns are easy to obtain and carry.

Method of harming oneself?
Drugs? Or unintentional hypothermia (exposure to the elements)?

NO ONE wants to think of suicide. But the others options are rather convoluted theories involving conspiracies aimed at a person with few methods of communication.

 

[believe09]

The SLT job he quit, so I doubt he was eligible for UI.
3 months without pay till next job.

With Matchbin that job apparently wasn't working out ( employer) so UI could be possible on that one, unless he was fired.
7 months is a long time not to have any source of income

That is why I was wondering about unemployment. If he was receiving it by check, for any period of time, he could have cashed it at many places that would not necessarily have caused a paper trail.

And, if he ran out of benefits and did not extend them, or stopped reporting, nothing would have come to his home once he went missing.

Just a thought.

 

[carbuff]

That is why I was wondering about unemployment. If he was receiving it by check, for any period of time, he could have cashed it at many places that would not necessarily have caused a paper trail.

And, if he ran out of benefits and did not extend them, or stopped reporting, nothing would have come to his home once he went missing.

Just a thought.

Good thought. And if he had been taking out payday loans against his check, he could have been in pretty deep to a loan shark.

 

[Canyon1]

First of all, I want to say I'm very happy that Laytonian is back! I also want to thank Believe09 and sarx for joining in and breathing new life into this thread.

For some reason, up until now, I didn't realize that Ruby Valley is 550 miles away from St. George; I guess I had just assumed it was a 2-3 hour drive, but 1100 miles round trip?! That, in my opinion, is a bit far to drive to just 'do some thinking' or even to visit a girl. That is like an 8 hour drive each way. Would Steven really go all that way to visit AN without even knowing if she was there? Was he in that general area for another reason? I find it more than coincidental this drive occurred only a couple of days before his disappearance.

As far as the cell phone pings go, my understanding is that in an urban area, if the closest cell tower is 'busy' with the pings of other phones, then your phone will be pinged off another tower in the area. For example, even though I'm in Greenwich Village, my cell phone could ping off a tower in the Bronx if it were a time of day when lots of people were using their cell phones/had them on. So it's definitely possible that LE is unable to precisely triangulate the last ping on Steven's cell phone, and that they are unable to determine exactly where he was when his phone last pinged.

Right now, though as Laytonian says all the theories have holes, I think suicide seems like the most logical explanation. My biggest problem with this theory, however, is the "HOW", and I haven't seen this discussed on this thread very much at all. If Steven walked out into the desert or up into the hills to commit suicide, how would he have done so? We haven't heard that Steven owned a gun or if he did that it is missing, and if he had recently bought one I'm sure there would be records. Did LE check on this, does anyone know? I seriously doubt Steven would have known where to get one on the black market, and he didn't have the money to buy one anyway. And other than a gun, how would he commit suicide? It could take days to submit to the elements, and it wasn't THAT cold, so I find this scenario unlikely. So other than the elements/gun, what do we have? Hanging? Overdose? Both of these seem unlikely to me as well. I'm sorry if this sounds morbid/graphic; I'm just trying to logically think through the suicide theory, and figure out the "HOW" in order to determine if this scenario is likely. The things that do point in this direction are the not answering calls from friends in recent days and that he didn't cash his grandmother's check or use his parents' money to pay his rent; if he had already decided he was going to commit suicide, he would have seen such expenditures as wasteful.

I'm just so frustrated, and want Steven to be found, wherever he is and whatever state he is in. Again, I want to thank Laytonian for coming back and all of the new posters for their new ideas and contributions. Thank you!

This suicide theory that we're discussing right now is the first one I had, and though I've entertained many of the other scenarios that have been thrown out there, it's the one I keep coming back to. It just makes the most sense in my mind.

I think Steven felt like he'd been given the brush off by the Ruby Valley gal and ultimately took his life because that was the last straw. Why Henderson? Well, given his religious background, (mine is the same) I think he was praying, pondering, looking for answers. He could have ended up where he was because he thought it was an answer to prayer. After he left his car, I tend to think he headed toward the golf course and the hills beyond, maybe not intending to commit suicide, just intending to get away, commune with nature, have some time for introspection. It has been mentioned on here a few times that many suicides are impulsive and not planned out. It's true. I think he most likely checked his voice mail hoping to hear from someone, (a girl?) and when he hadn't and his phone battery was dead, it was more than he could take.

As far as the MOI--mechanism of injury--what about just jumping? I haven't spent a great deal of time in the desert around Las Vegas, but I have spent my whole life in similar terrain in Southern Utah. There are many, many places one could take ones life just by jumping. Maybe pills? Did he have a knife? Again, I don't think the suicide was planned out, so jumping makes the most sense to me.

I really hate writing this. It makes me so, so sad. As several have mentioned, I can't follow any scenario through without reservation or question, but really, it seems to be the most logical of the options right now.

 

[believe09]

Now the idea of payday loan sharks breaking knee caps is hopefully just representative of Hollywood-BUT, it might be cause for some feelings of deep depression or frustration...kind of a trap he couldnt get out of on his own.

Hmmm.

 

[sarx]

Or maybe he headed in the hills just to pray or reflect and fell or tumbled down and hit his head or broke a leg and couldn't get back out?

 

[hollyblue]

And GW was already started, in fact we know where he was when he talked to Steven...so he would have easily made it to the meeting. And if GW found out that early that Steven as not going to make it, and neither was he, why didn't he call someone else after the 7ish call? He made this great effort to get Steven there by calling him early, but didn't attempt to call anyone else? Or tell the guys that he would not be there. AND if he did tell the guys, maybe that is how they found out by text or VM, then he wasn't going to be there...surely he would tell them that he nor Steven would be there right? Unless, that was part of the plan, for the men to call Steven.

Does it bother anyone that Steven says LV and not Henderson? I have always thought it was weird that he would say LV, when Henderson would be less "controversial" on a Sunday. Maybe he didn't know "where" the location he was going to was at when he talked to the men on the phone? So that would match up with the theories that he was "waiting" for instructions. I've mentioned this before, but hadn't put it together with the "waiting" theory.

I also thought it was a bit strange that the calls to Steven covered his absence up until the next Thursday. SA did ask him if he would be at the basketball game on Wed (no) and as well as if he would be there that day to make an annoucement about it.

Maybe somebody was following someone else....maybe Steven found out or saw something having to do with them?....just thinking here--not accusing.
According to the cell pings that we know about, Steven was in Vegas at the time of the call--where did he stay and with anyone? Is it possible it was someone else in possession of his phone? Perp?
When was Steven in Vegas? Was he there Fri until late in the afternoon Sat, buying gas in Mesquite. Continued home and bought the presents and then returned that night or stayed home or someplace else and returned early Sun morning.

Was Steven following GW or maybe GW following Steven?
If so, why? The pings, according to Gsmith, were all over the Vegas valley.

 

[RubyRed]

Eligibility for UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS (State of Utah website).

He'd have had to provide proof that he was seeking jobs, including a verifiable list of companies he had contacted. If you are sent out by Workforce Services, you have to have a good reason for not taking a job you're referred to.

As an independent contractor, he'd not have been eligible for unemployment. We know he was considered IE under TH, not sure about matchbin.com -- although it does look to be an outside sales position.

It would also depend on the reason he left Matchbin, terminated or a lay off.
This statement is at link you provided.

*are unemployed through no fault of their own

 

[Fairy1]

My own feeling -- I wouldn't call it anything as strong as a theory -- is that he went out onto the golf course, in one of those gullies or ponds, expecting to be found not very long after. The main point being to make sure it wasn't his family who found him. But because the ground is pretty rugged and he's wearing desert-colored clothing, nobody stumbled onto him.

I'll be surprised if he didn't walk out on his life. I'm just not sure how permanent his leaving was.

Ironically, it was his family that searched the golf course on that first search. I can't say how extensive it was and I'm not familiar with the whole course, so I'm just not sure how difficult it would be to find him if he is there. But it's been so long now. Surely someone would have found him by now.

 

[carbuff]

Now the idea of payday loan sharks breaking knee caps is hopefully just representative of Hollywood-BUT, it might be cause for some feelings of deep depression or frustration...kind of a trap he couldnt get out of on his own.

Hmmm.

I was thinking of it as a reason for wanting to leave his life behind -- he could have had more debts than we know of.

 

[Canyon1]

LIABLE ? i want a pic of the PI and his dog. this is a lingo term for deniable as in plausible deniability - a play on words its root being LIE. if i had been there and heard that i would have told him "dude im outta here"

which means either everyone or someones been HAD. TSK TSK

No. The root of the word "liable" is not "lie." According to Mr. Webster himself, the root of the word is: Etymology: Middle English lyable, from Anglo-French *liable, from lier to bind, from Latin ligare — more at ligature.

When I read the post to which you are referring, I was pretty sure the poster just misspoke or mistyped and really meant "viable."

I have not met this PI, but looking at his website and the posts on FB, he seems a competent man with his heart in the right place. I just do not get the we're-all-being-played-for-fools-in-a-vast-conspiracy-to-keep-us-in-the-dark idea. Not at all.

 

[laytonian]

I was thinking of it as a reason for wanting to leave his life behind -- he could have had more debts than we know of.

Like the long conversations we had about Utah's ubiquitous payday loan stores.

 

[laytonian]

Ironically, it was his family that searched the golf course on that first search. I can't say how extensive it was and I'm not familiar with the whole course, so I'm just not sure how difficult it would be to find him if he is there. But it's been so long now. Surely someone would have found him by now.

I dunno. Since the golf course sits in the valley/canyons between the home-filled hills, someone might have to be hiking in the rocky slopes to find a body (particularly if it's among the trees and brush).

 

[Fairy1]

No. The root of the word "liable" is not "lie." According to Mr. Webster himself, the root of the word is: Etymology: Middle English lyable, from Anglo-French *liable, from lier to bind, from Latin ligare — more at ligature.

When I read the post to which you are referring, I was pretty sure the poster just misspoke or mistyped and really meant "viable."

I have not met this PI, but looking at his website and the posts on FB, he seems a competent man with his heart in the right place. I just do not get the we're-all-being-played-for-fools-in-a-vast-conspiracy-to-keep-us-in-the-dark idea. Not at all.

I don't think we're being played either. But I do have to wonder if the search last Saturday was designed to produce a result other than finding Steven. That's understandable. Wonder if it worked?

 

[Canyon1]

Or maybe he headed in the hills just to pray or reflect and fell or tumbled down and hit his head or broke a leg and couldn't get back out?

That is my second most-logical-sounding theory. It could have been completely an accidental death.

 

[RubyRed]

Now the idea of payday loan sharks breaking knee caps is hopefully just representative of Hollywood-BUT, it might be cause for some feelings of deep depression or frustration...kind of a trap he couldnt get out of on his own.

Hmmm.

That is one of the theories we all have come up with. There are many more scenarios here.

http://sites.google.com/site/parallelcooler/home/koecher-html/scenarios