NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #12

[rd_jfc]

You can get black-and-white flyers for about 2-cents each here ($20 for a 1,000).....and if you're passing them out by hand, that's a lot of work.

I guess the only job mystery now is: what else did he do between Matchbin and passing out the flyers? And when did he start working for TH.

working implies a lot of time spent, like a job. This is some extra cash temp gig. Even if some one were to say the first flyer he handed out was on such and such day it's not like it's more than a few hours.

No, you summed it up real well. What was he doing since March (and I question how much money was earned in that type of venture), and where was he spending his time where no one comes forward and claims to have ever seen him.

Like Saturday evening in St. George and early Sunday morning to noon in Vegas. And it's questionable he arose at 5 to 5:30 to drive to Vegas to be there at 8 when GW called, and not seen returning to his room after leaving at 10:28pm (9:28pm Vegas time).

Basically he sufaced to buy a few small thing s at K-Mart, then hours later dropped by his room, then nearly 14 hours later is seen walkng away from his car.

He's driving around the whole time?

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

Why do you say that? Statistically, it's by far the most likely thing to have happened. Jobless men not in relationships kill themselves at a shockingly high rate, and SK's downward spiral and periodic depression have already been mentioned. And the only anomaly is, why did he pick that area?

Emotionally, I don't want to accept this answer. And in this case, I'm not sure the simplest answer is the right one. But convoluted theories of some unknown person who lured him to a strange place and left no trace don't seem very likely either.

They do, but they commit suicide at their last stand, a motel or room when their money has run out.

I was at one of those kind of places in 1984, rent motel rooms by the month, and someone commited suicide nearly every month. It was the same kind of economy we have now, you couldn't buy a job if you had any money, which you didn't.

But have you considered the logistics of committing suicide by hypothermia after parking miles deep in the suburbs?

We don't have a shockingly high rate of that. You find homeless die of hypothermia but they're found right away, and it's not blatant suicide.

rd

 

[fasteddy4]

Actually, not a rough at all. I've moved around Vegas quite a bit and I don't own a ton of stuff so no big deal. Moving into a house with a big pool with an owner who is not there a lot so. . .it's ALL good.

I did not have a camera with me that day and yes I was the guy who ran across the burial site of Jazz. It was a small pile of rocks on the south side of two Joshua trees close together. If you look at an aerial map I would say it is a 1/4 mile south of Volunteer Road on the far west of the search area. The pile of rocks was about a square yard (3 feet by 3 feet). I did not disturb it because it looked legitimate and I did not want to ruin somebody's pet's resting place.

Hey, fasteddy, good to see you around. Good luck with the housing thing. Sounds like a rough time for you.

I've been meaning to ask you -- way back from the search. Were you the person who found what looked like a pet's grave? Did you happen to take a picture of it?

 

[RubyRed]

working implies a lot of time spent, like a job. This is some extra cash temp gig. Even if some one were to say the first flyer he handed out was on such and such day it's not like it's more than a few hours.

No, you summed it up real well. What was he doing since March (and I question how much money was earned in that type of venture), and where was he spending his time where no one comes forward and claims to have ever seen him.

Like Saturday evening in St. George and early Sunday morning to noon in Vegas. And it's questionable he arose at 5 to 5:30 to drive to Vegas to be there at 8 when GW called, and not seen returning to his room after leaving at 10:28pm (9:28pm Vegas time).

Basically he sufaced to buy a few small thing s at K-Mart, then hours later dropped by his room, then nearly 14 hours later is seen walkng away from his car.

He's driving around the whole time?

rd

bbm

It appears that way. He had no money for rent but was able to drive aimlessly.

 

[fasteddy4]

Yes, it is the simplest theory but when I think about it, Vegas has to be one of the toughest cities to commit suicide in and disappear at the same time. True, a lot of suicides take place, specifically in the hotels and "pay by the hour" motels downtown. But, those people are eventually found and identified.

But, to commit suicide AND disappear, that is something different. Think about Vegas: There are no bridges to jump off of. There are no waterways to jump into. There are no forests or woods, except for Mt. Charleston which is like an hour and a half from where Steven parked his car.

I think about my hometown city, Pittsburgh. It would be about 10,000 times easier to commit suicide there than in Las Vegas. You could park in a garage downtown. Walk to one of the city's many bridges and jump. The fast Ohio River would take you downstream so far that you'd be miles away before anyone knew you were gone.

Do we really believe he just walked out into the desert? It's the only suicide plan left. And I will say again, heading down Evening Lights was the opposite direction of the way he needed to go to get to the desert the quickest. And what did he do once he got to the desert? Shoot himself. Did he use a gun before? Did anybody ever see him with a gun? He OD'd? Any record of him having a wide assortment of pills? Because I don't believe he just started walking and waited for the onset of exposure.

And I will add that if he did go out in the desert to kill himself, my idea is that he would have chosen to shoot himself/OD/whatever very quickly. So, a search of the area done those weeks after his disappearance would have found him. Remember, there are no trees to hide him so he would be right out there in the desert and would be easy to see from the air if somebody was actually looking.

I know this may be trying to attach logic to the illogical but I am not of the opinion that every person who commits suicide is acting illogically. Most of the time, they think things out pretty thoroughly, including a suicide note. Sure, maybe Steven put some suicide plan together that would leave open the possibility that he was still alive because he would not want his parents to think he committed suicide. But, instead, just disappeared with no proof of life or death. It is possible.

i just think that the facts don't support that conclusion. The facts more support the idea of a guy who was desperate to find something new to do with his life, not somebody who was looking to end it. And that desperation took off in a direction that got him into trouble.

Actually the simplest theory is that he parked the car and went out and ended his own life.

 

[Lato]

There is a picture taken of Steven at Thanksgiving, 2009 and placed on the
facebook about an hour ago.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=225335012614&v=wall

 

[Lato]

Recent article about another missing person in Henderson, NV (a 67 year old
lady) - included the following information.
That seems to be a huge caseload.

"According to the Metropolitan Police Department, an average of 19 people are reporting missing each day in Las Vegas. That's almost 7,000 missing people per year, including runaways."

http://www.lvrj.com/news/police--hospitals--family-join-forces-to-look-for-woman-93839669.html

 

[Fairy1]

BBM-what was the subject matter that upset the PI so much?

Had nothing to do with Steven, the family, GW or any of our speculation or work on the case. It was ALL about him. IIRC, a day or two leading up to the search, some of us were questioning the validity of the tip and wondering about the credibility of the PI's work on Steven's case.

He singled out the WS "group," sort of took us to task for comments made about him and followed up with a complete rundown of his experience, credentials, financial position, etc. All very impressive, but it didn't lead to Steven that day and there's been barely a peep since.

Just sayin'........

ETA:

I think we ALL handled it pretty well, considering he caught us completely off guard and AFTER the search! I can't speak for all of us, but I, personally, was too tired to take him down.

We did, however, invite him to join us here. Or to at least check it out. I am positive that over the last 5 months, we have discussed the right puzzle, with the one missing piece.

 

[Fairy1]

Yes, it is the simplest theory but when I think about it, Vegas has to be one of the toughest cities to commit suicide in and disappear at the same time. True, a lot of suicides take place, specifically in the hotels and "pay by the hour" motels downtown. But, those people are eventually found and identified.

But, to commit suicide AND disappear, that is something different. Think about Vegas: There are no bridges to jump off of. There are no waterways to jump into. There are no forests or woods, except for Mt. Charleston which is like an hour and a half from where Steven parked his car.

I think about my hometown city, Pittsburgh. It would be about 10,000 times easier to commit suicide there than in Las Vegas. You could park in a garage downtown. Walk to one of the city's many bridges and jump. The fast Ohio River would take you downstream so far that you'd be miles away before anyone knew you were gone.

Do we really believe he just walked out into the desert? It's the only suicide plan left. And I will say again, heading down Evening Lights was the opposite direction of the way he needed to go to get to the desert the quickest. And what did he do once he got to the desert? Shoot himself. Did he use a gun before? Did anybody ever see him with a gun? He OD'd? Any record of him having a wide assortment of pills? Because I don't believe he just started walking and waited for the onset of exposure.

And I will add that if he did go out in the desert to kill himself, my idea is that he would have chosen to shoot himself/OD/whatever very quickly. So, a search of the area done those weeks after his disappearance would have found him. Remember, there are no trees to hide him so he would be right out there in the desert and would be easy to see from the air if somebody was actually looking.

I know this may be trying to attach logic to the illogical but I am not of the opinion that every person who commits suicide is acting illogically. Most of the time, they think things out pretty thoroughly, including a suicide note. Sure, maybe Steven put some suicide plan together that would leave open the possibility that he was still alive because he would not want his parents to think he committed suicide. But, instead, just disappeared with no proof of life or death. It is possible.

i just think that the facts don't support that conclusion. The facts more support the idea of a guy who was desperate to find something new to do with his life, not somebody who was looking to end it. And that desperation took off in a direction that got him into trouble.

Hey fe4! I agree with you on this 100%.

Perhaps Steven is living in your new neighborhood and you'll run right into him when you go pick up your mail some day!

 

[RubyRed]

Recent article about another missing person in Henderson, NV (a 67 year old
lady) - included the following information.
That seems to be a huge caseload.

"According to the Metropolitan Police Department, an average of 19 people are reporting missing each day in Las Vegas. That's almost 7,000 missing people per year, including runaways."

http://www.lvrj.com/news/police--hospitals--family-join-forces-to-look-for-woman-93839669.html

Fliers of missing people hang on a bulletin board in the emergency room of Sunrise Hospital and Medical Center. Among the faces is Billie Jean James, 67, who disappeared April 22 from her home near M Resort, on the southern edge of the valley.
Craig L. Moran/LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL

Was Steven's pic submitted to hospitals?

The era of faces on milk cartons is long gone,

They are wrong about milk cartons because Steven's face was put on one.


http://www.standard.net/topics/safe...ahns-picture-milk-carton-utah-southern-nevada

http://www.lvrj.com/news/police--hospitals--family-join-forces-to-look-for-woman-93839669.html

 

[RubyRed]

Police use an automated computer program where a missing person's information is plugged into a flier template and e-mailed or faxed to hospitals, schools, casinos, media, law enforcement agencies and elsewhere. That's a large database of e-mails and phone numbers where one typo can determine whether someone receives information or not.

Most emergency rooms received information the next day about Billie Jean's case from faxes, phone calls or visits from police. But the region's only public hospital heard nothing.

One week later, officials at University Medical Center said they still had not received information from Metro.

"There's nothing in the emergency department," said Danita Cohen, UMC spokeswoman. "If Metro faxes in we would post it. The last fax we got from them was three weeks ago about a missing man."

Sgt. Peter Ferranti of the police missing persons unit said the error could be caused by a computer glitch or a misplaced flier.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/police--hospitals--family-join-forces-to-look-for-woman-93839669.html
​

Above is from Lato's link. Just wanted to show how easy it would be for someone to get lost in the system. O/T I love this constant variation in spelling. Flyers vs fliers. LOL​

 

[Sin City]

a while back i mentioned i knew the people who started the bogus "reliable tip" to start a search and their M.O. and how i was going to have a discussion with them about their ethics. but i guess the post was too "aggressive" and it was removed. but i still "spoke" with them.

at times like this i think of two sayings - something about "beating a dead horse with a stick" and "letting sleeping dogs lie"

till next time . . . :lick:

Ding, What on earth is this all about? You "spoke" with them? Are these people fellow WSers? If this is the case this is so not cool at all, and we need to clean up our own backyard!

 

[Sin City]

I think it's safe to say that the "let's keep this amongst ourselves" approach isn't working.

 

[RubyRed]

I think it's safe to say that the "let's keep this amongst ourselves" approach isn't working.

Sin City, What do you mean?

 

[hollyblue]

A law against that has been passed in Congress and expected to be sent to President for signature this year.

rd

Glad to hear that. I was wondering how this could go on. Do you remember what this is called? It was said to be done to the missing woman (Rachael Anderson) by her husband. Do you think this might have been happening to Steven?

 

[hollyblue]

hi laytonian, TH said SK was just helping out a little to earn some rent money. I didn't press for more detail than that concerning length of business relationship, amount of money earned, that type of thing, as statement seemed pretty self evident, but did confirm all he was doing was handing out some flyers, didn't do any of the cleaning work, and didn't earn any commission or have any marketing type activities where he could earn money based on business generated, etc.

I know you've done the numbers way earlier in the thread, startup business (if I read about the startup loan correctly), there can't be much of a budget for handing out flyers. I'd be surprised if it was more than the $100. That's about 2000 flyers at going rates I've seen on net (.05 to .10 per flyer).

I don't know, for someone that kept getting called by the church constantly he sure kept a low profile.

rd

Thank you for making that call. This is information I feel we could have and should have had way back at the beginning. I think Steven, in a way, was looking to find the "truth" in his life. Apparently, keeping the face, was something the family adhered to and am sure this was an added pressure for him also. Pity.

 

[hollyblue]

Police use an automated computer program where a missing person's information is plugged into a flier template and e-mailed or faxed to hospitals, schools, casinos, media, law enforcement agencies and elsewhere. That's a large database of e-mails and phone numbers where one typo can determine whether someone receives information or not.​

Most emergency rooms received information the next day about Billie Jean's case from faxes, phone calls or visits from police. But the region's only public hospital heard nothing.​

One week later, officials at University Medical Center said they still had not received information from Metro.​

"There's nothing in the emergency department," said Danita Cohen, UMC spokeswoman. "If Metro faxes in we would post it. The last fax we got from them was three weeks ago about a missing man."​

Sgt. Peter Ferranti of the police missing persons unit said the error could be caused by a computer glitch or a misplaced flier.​

http://www.lvrj.com/news/police--hospitals--family-join-forces-to-look-for-woman-93839669.html​

Above is from from Lato's link. Just wanted to show how easy it would be for someone to get lost in the system. O/T I love this constant variation in spelling. Flyers vs fliers. LOL​

This is so disheartening. I asked the same question as to whether his pic had been placed in the emergency rooms way back. I had a missing friend involved in an auto accident and within a few hours--we found him--at the ER.
O/T...LOL I have the same spelling prob with that word---prolly from being from Philly, and a hockey fan, I spell it with an -er constantly-unless I catch myself.

 

[rd_jfc]

Glad to hear that. I was wondering how this could go on. Do you remember what this is called? It was said to be done to the missing woman (Rachael Anderson) by her husband. Do you think this might have been happening to Steven?

It's something like Truth in Caller ID Act, holly. Google caller id spoofing for latest. There's a good Wikipedia article on it.

Thanks for that info about it possibly being used against Rachael Anderson. I will have to check out the thread on her.

No, if anything SK is the one that has hidden communications. I personally don't think he keeps receipts for jack in the Box in his car but carefully hides any hint of secret communications, but he sure doesn't have much of phone records of any type of unknown people, according to family. A spoofed caller id from a stranger is still a strange caller id (barring extraordinary reconnaisance prior to making call to spoof to a known friend's number and then have a (lame) excuse if asked about number when answering).

rd

 

[Lato]

This is the wikipedia link for caller ID spoofing....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing

 

[carbuff]

Here's a scenario:

Steven gets home around 10 after a fruitless day of job hunting and Christmas shopping. He finds somebody else already there. The person kills Steven -- has been planning it for some time. There's a struggle and the room gets messed up some. He drags Steven's body out the back door and into that open area right behind the house. Maybe there's a grave prepared already. Shoves the body in and covers it quickly.

Goes back to the house. Tidies up the room to cover up signs of the struggle, ?not knowing Steven's not usually tidy? Grabs Steven's keys and cell phone, and his spoofing device. Drives car to Vegas. Drives around so there will be pings registered.

He knows that when Steven doesn't show up for his church obligations, there will be calls. Uses the spoofing device to sound like Steven. When he has talked to enough people to establish that Steven is alive and well in Las Vegas, he drives to Henderson and parks the car in a previously chosen spot (a place where it's not likely to be towed or vandalized, because he wants it to be found). Walks away, probably to meet a cab.

I suspect he chose the place because he knew about the security cameras and knew he resembled Steven physically.

I don't know whether there's a possible perp to fit that profile. It just occurred to me after learning about those spoofing devices.