NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 2

[CONCRNED CTZN]

I am interested to know if there has been a reward set up of any kind? And if not, why not?

 

[liz b.]

Maybe the answer can be found by the actions of LE. They did not, I believe, try to lift fingerprints from the car. But, they did use both helicopters and dogs to search for Steven. Perhaps this means that LE did not consider the car to be a crimescene, and not the area around Evening Lights either ? We know that they looked for him,though. Aerial searches are quite expensive. It is my understanding that helicopters and dogs are used in Amber alerts, or when someone is hurt and/or lost in a wilderness area. Or when LE is searching for a body.
As to Mr.Webb's actions that day, is it possible that Webb was "keeping an eye" on Steven during his time in Vegas ? Did the family, or church friends think this was something that needed to be done ? It is more likely that,than that Webb was involved in Steven's disappearance. I really don't envy Naegle's role here ; she is like a ping pong ball between this forum and family members. Sad and difficult situation ....

 

[laytonian]

I agree, if we knew that we have helped in ANY way I think that would persuade yourself and others to go on. BUT, I think that needs to be stated by someone "involved" in the investigation so that this just does not become a Thread someone uses to write a novel someday...because that might not be a bad idea. ;-)

With that said...does anyone read the magazine "WIRED"? They let one of the writers disappear and readers were supposed to try and find him. He "disappeared" in Vegas, and wrote about how he did it. No cell phone, dumping his car... Many of the things he did are similar to what Steven has done. I would be interested to know if he reads that magazine. HAHA I know I am stretching, but my husband suggested it last night and really it actually made more sense than a pot smoking housemate taking him on heroin runs.

Even better question: did STEVEN read the magazine "WIRED"? He worked in communications and IT, and there's software engineers in the family.

I need to find that article. OK, I found it but didn't read it. What I DO find interesting is how Ratliffe was found. He was tweeting, using credit cards, and even shared information with someone running the "find" website. THAT'S not how you disappear. But some of his first steps must have been pretty good.

 

[SuziQ]

I think the family is in the best position to judge who is in the video. They say it is Steven so who am I to second guess what it is they are seeing on the video. They have known him for 30 years, so I would defer to their visual senses. Is someone saying the perps found a body double to park a car on a public street when no one even knew there was a camera around?

Come on people. I know everyone is trying to be helpful but I think energy is being wasted on this issue.

What is wasteful is sleuthing an area that may have been nothing more than a place to dump a car. And as far as body doubles go, guys that look like Steven are a dime a dozen on any given Sunday at any Wardhouse. He looks alot like several of my neighbors.

 

[laytonian]

Maybe the answer can be found by the actions of LE. They did not, I believe, try to lift fingerprints from the car. But, they did use both helicopters and dogs to search for Steven. Perhaps this means that LE did not consider the car to be a crimescene, and not the area around Evening Lights either ? We know that they looked for him,though. Aerial searches are quite expensive. It is my understanding that helicopters and dogs are used in Amber alerts, or when someone is hurt and/or lost in a wilderness area. Or when LE is searching for a body.
As to Mr.Webb's actions that day, is it possible that Webb was "keeping an eye" on Steven during his time in Vegas ? Did the family, or church friends think this was something that needed to be done ? It is more likely that, than that Webb was involved in Steven's disappearance. I really don't envy Naegle's role here ; she is like a ping pong ball between this forum and family members. Sad and difficult situation ....

True.
Something else I've been thinking: there's a self-sufficiency among some Utahns, that would lead them to keep the investigation of Steven's computer within the family, rather than have a non-involved party do so. Not all software engineers are forensic examiners.

Like I said, I hope the hard drive's contents were "mirrored" (and used as the point of investigation), rather than just searching around in the hard drive's contents itself. If something evidentiary was found, a defense attorney would love to discredit it by saying a family member planted it.

 

[believe09]

Welcome Helix!!!!!!! Thanks for the post and your opinion...

 

[Helix11]

I think Laytonian has a very valid point with the emphasis on self-sufficiency within the LDS community and the fact that often times they operate within the system rather than looking for an outside opinion. While Naegle is doing a really great job updating us and giving us tons of information, if they are operating within the same community it is impossible to have an entirely objective perspective. This might really be impinging on this family's ability to find the real reason their loving son is missing.

 

[laytonian]

Maybe the answer can be found by the actions of LE. They did not, I believe, try to lift fingerprints from the car. But, they did use both helicopters and dogs to search for Steven. Perhaps this means that LE did not consider the car to be a crimescene, and not the area around Evening Lights either ? We know that they looked for him,though. Aerial searches are quite expensive. It is my understanding that helicopters and dogs are used in Amber alerts, or when someone is hurt and/or lost in a wilderness area. Or when LE is searching for a body.
As to Mr.Webb's actions that day, is it possible that Webb was "keeping an eye" on Steven during his time in Vegas ? Did the family, or church friends think this was something that needed to be done ? It is more likely that,than that Webb was involved in Steven's disappearance. I really don't envy Naegle's role here ; she is like a ping pong ball between this forum and family members. Sad and difficult situation ....

Except LE must have figured *something* happened nearby, because they searched "the neighborhood and surrounding desert" on Dec 30th (per Steven's mother on the FB page).
That must have been the point Naegle referred to, that it's when they realized he wasn't a potsmoker on a bad trip [sic]. OR....that's when the "big secret" became known.
From what I can see, LE wasn't hyper-involved in the land search until that date.

I wonder if something that belonged to Steven, was found in the hills surrounding the development. Like a discarded cellphone.

Or did they just search there, because nothing led anywhere else?

 

[webrocket]

Hi all. I am new here, but I have read up on both of these extensive forums regarding Steven. I first heard of his story when a friend of mine from high school invited me to the facebook group, and have followed his story closely since then. I found WebSleuths yesterday and was totally engulfed in the ideas you guys have come up with; it's amazing.

Because we are kind of at a standstill, I have started of thinking of other ideas. Maybe Believe is right and Steven is happier away from Utah and his family. If he is the man at IHOP this doesn't really fit the bill, but it could be that he was happier whenever he was on Evening Lights and something went totally awry (like Web has discussed) and now he is homeless in LV and hanging out at IHOP in the middle of the night. Perhaps he really is gay, was attempting to run away (or just explore his desires) by traveling to Vegas/Henderson pretty often in the past few weeks. It is possible that he decided LDS is not the religion for him and that could correlate with homosexuality as well. This might also semi-explain (or at least lean towards) the fact that Greg Webb has been this ominous figure with no real explanation to how he fits into the picture. He is, in fact, the man pictured with Steven's poster in front of his house; why was he the one chosen to do this? He must have been really close to Steven. And if Steven was having trouble with his faith or his sexuality, maybe he confided or even shared this problem with GW. This would explain the fact that Webb essentially "covered" for Steve with church (still in ? I think) and by "explaining" his phone call to Steven.

Perhaps questioning his faith and homosexuality aren't the exact demons Steven has been dealing with, but I think it's clear that he is dealing with demons in some manner. If he thought he was going to Evening Lights to explore whatever it may be, he would walk there with purpose and be excited to do this. If it were something his family would disagree with, the chances that Steven (deep down) disagrees with his choices are huge. Whether or not he has had a break from reality or he is just struggling deeply with whatever addiction, gambling problem, homosexuality, the possibilities are endless.

I've held certain opinions from day one and if the IHOP guy is not Steven then he may well be happy being wherever he is at right now without anything criminal having taken place. If the IHOP guy is Steven, I can envision a scenario of the how and why that occurred. However, out of respect for the family I will refrain from sharing that since we have no idea if that IHOP guy is Steven.

What makes this thread more interesting than many others is that we actually have material to work from but where it leads is anyone's guess. I still think he voluntarily left the car in that cul de sac to meet up with someone else in a vehicle on another block. If the person he was meeting did live in Sun Anthem City, I think they would have chosen another location to abandon the vehicle. No point in leaving a trail directly to one's doorstep.

 

[4BB]

I know LE will enter someone into the NCIC database and do searches "if the person missing is in immenent danger or believed to be a threat to themselves or others"

Naegle...give us just ONE clue. Do you all think Steven left on his own?

Hi Naegle! I see you are on here..please know we really want to help :grouphug:

 

[Naegle]

Is the only media picture of someone "searching" for Steven in St. George of GW? Hummm....

I feel duped! It's like we are on one of those shows where they say, "Gotcha in the end".

We weren't even talking about the roommate until Naegle said something, but nothing really changed to make her say something. So there is not something...just nothing. I REALIZE THIS MAKES NO SENSE...HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE LINE OF QUESTIONING.

Obviously, information is being withheld b/c of embarrassment, naivety, scared of what it would mean about the family or ones self?? We are SOOO not here to judge. For Naegle to say she was sick of the Webb question when she had not even answered it, really bothers me. There were other questions she answered a million times, that were irrelevant. Are there other things that like Web (the Web from here...) suggests, are just too taboo to discuss. Being LDS does not make us invincible to reality.

Seriously. Let's have a come to Jesus Naegle. Maybe throw us a "real" bone so that we know if our leads are even plausible. Maybe if the information you have completely negates any of our theories, or makes them possible, let us know.

With that said...what are the rules for posting information? Are we "allowed" to post information we obtained individually through resources we paid for...or does the information have to be "public"?

"Obviously" nothing!! I asked those questions a few days ago because I spent the evening talking with my aunt and uncle about the case. Am I not allowed to have my own questions?? If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times- I am not holding anything back! Guess what! I don't know everything! Surprise!

I'm not talking about GW anymore because it makes my head hurt. LE has questioned him and things have checked out. What do you want me to do, tail him?? Of course, I don't trust him. I don't trust anyone. I don't trust a single one of you with Steven's life.

I'm doing my absolute best to help you people and from some of you all I get is "Oh, she must be lying because we haven't heard any dirt details yet." Don't you realize my life has turned upside-down? Give me a break will you?

 

[4BB]

We are doing our absolute best to help you Naegle. There are just so many unanswered questions. We are all trying very hard to see your side, can you please take a moment to try and see ours.

You yourself said you were withholding some information (for good reason)

I know exactly how you feel. My husband went missing in 2004. He was found safe physically but not mentally. I have been in your shoes, but I did so many things differently. My life was upside down. I dont think I ever really slept. He is now my ex husband because he chose to run away. He had a mental breakdown and is now living in Las Vegas. Unless they are in danger or are a threat to themselves or society, there is nothing law enforcement can do. A person doesnt have to be found if they dont want to. LE said they couldnt "make" him do anything.
I learned ALOT during that very difficult time.

Things need to be answered and no one is holding you personally responsible but something just isnt right. We all know that you are only the family liason, please dont take offense.

Why did no one watch the Kmart videos to try and find clues especially since they occured in a VERY short time before he went missing?
You have to examine every single aspect of as many minutes, days, weeks, and months you can leading up to his disapperance. Start from that moment and go backwards.
Every teeny tiny piece of evidence needs a who, what, where, when, why and how?

Even something as trivial as a coat. Who wore the coat? What kind of coat was it? Where? When? Why? Etc

Your answers have been snippy and understandable considering what you are going through, but when you reply Why would we? or you ask the landlord it makes it hard for us to understand.

Everyone take a deep breath. No one person here can do whats best for Steven, but as a whole we can.

I say we all have to keep working for Steven, but we have to do it together.

Are you willing to start over Naegle?

 

[laytonian]

We are doing our absolute best to help you Naegle. There are just so many unanswered questions.

In all fairness, there's just one piece of information that Naegle is withholding.

I'm sorry for your experience, and you're right.
If an adult chooses to go missing, it's not illegal (UNLESS they are doing so to purposelessly deceive, file a false report, or commit other crime during the disappearance).

 

[dreamweaver]

Naegle:
I know it must be hard to know that Steven is missing and you try to do
all you can to help find him.

The frustration you feel is evident.
I am sure Steven's parents and siblings are
are as baffled as everyone else.

Thank you for all the work you do on his FB page and
coming here and answering questions by WS posters.

Let's hope there is a clue gathered by LE, WS, family or friends
that will lead to Steven.

 

[4BB]

I know laytonian, Im sorry if my post came off rude...I truely am just reaching out to get us all back on track....for Steven. Naegle is holding the great burden of being the go-between. Its a tough place to be. There are so many unanswered questions, questions she may not have the answers to but may be able to find out for us. Thats what I meant.

 

[Helix11]

My only piece of advice for you KC since I am inexperienced compared to others on this board is this: don't brush off the things that seem as suspicious to the people on this board. We are outsiders and have the benefit of an objective viewpoint.

 

[webrocket]

For what it is worth, and it might not be much, I personally do not think Steven was with anyone until after he exited the vehicle in Sun Anthem City and hopped into a car on Evening Lights. All the store videos would show (in my opinion) is a guy walking around picking up a few Christmas ornaments.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone from his family, neighborhood, work or churches know what he was up to. Sure one person here or there might have a hunch he was doing something 'immoral' from strictly an LDS standpoint but I doubt any of them saw him do anything and I seriously doubt Steven confided anything to anyone.

If the hard drive reveals nothing, then there is no e-trail so we are left with theories.

One question the family (and I don't mean Naegle personally) should know by now is whether his birth certificate and passport were found in St. George. Frankly, (and no offense Naegle as none is intended) I think the answer tells alot. I do not know ANYONE who drives around with those important documents as losing them is hell. So if they are not in St. George, then they are with Steven, which to me, indicates that he was bailing out on his circle of family and friends.

As 4BB alluded to, it must be a terrible slap in the face to the family to even consider that a loved one purposely and deceptively planned such a stunt and I think it is human nature for the family to avoid thinking of that possibility unless it is absolutely proven to be the case.

So the long and the short of it is that we have hit the proverbial wall unless his hard drive tells a story, or the IHOP guy is Steven or if he should suddenly call home out of the blue.

I want to thank the WS people here who took the time to go to the IHOP and get first hand information on the mystery midnight tea drinker. If any more tips (and I don't mean theories) come here if even by FB or other sources, then we can work on them.

 

[dreamweaver]

I just have to say,
IMO,
Naegle is on WS to help find Steven.
She freely gives her time.

Suspicion and speculation leading to clues where Steven could be,
are sleuthed.
IMO: Naegle should not be addressed in a demanding manner.
I know. I know. Not everyone does it. I know.

Just think about what you post and how it can come across
to someone who is missing Steven, her family member
and who only wants to find him.

Okay, I am off my soap box now.

 

[4BB]

Thanks webrocket. You are most probably right about the videos. I just assumed that it couldnt hurt to rule them out..say if it shows him in the parking lot chatting with someone.

It is a slap in the face (and quite embarrassing) to know that your loved one wanted to get away from their life so badly. My ex had friends he would meet and speak with so as not to leave any sort of evidence. We watched countless tapes and ruled out many scenarios, but eventually some things that we thought were worthless and a waste of our time, ended up being the thing that saved his life and brought him home. He had a gambling addiction that started with the internet and took him all the was to Vegas. I was 9 months pregnant and packed his lunch and kissed him goodbye like any other day.
This is the way he explained it. This part of him really wanted to gamble. He went on with his daily life and prepared to leave. Not really sure if he was or not, but when the opportunity arose, he jumped. Seems much like Steven to me. My ex was also a member of LDS (not that it had anything to do with it)

Sometimes the truth hurts, but you cant blame the messenger. I learned that the hard way.

 

[MBLover]

Just throwing this out there...

Steven was in that neighborhood to meet someone for some reason - seems to be pretty much a given...

But to meet this person only to hop in their car and go wherever makes no sense to me. If he was meeting someone to go somewhere why do it in a neighborhood. Why not park at a mall, strip mall, casino, grocery store...

For some reason I can't seem to wrap my head around meeting someone in a neighborhood...not parking in front or very close by their house...only to have to walk and meet up with them to hop in their car...

JMO