NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 3

[swjaxon]

Also - swjaxon is absolutely right about surveillance cameras being everywhere here. They really are and it's just a way of life for us. Frankly, I find it rather comforting.

He's also right about there being a million other places in Las Vegas for a car to be abandoned where it wouldn't raise any red flags for possibly weeks. Either Steven was in Sun City on purpose and ran up against the wrong person or persons, or he wanted the car to be discovered sooner rather than later. Then again, there are many, many other neighborhoods in the city where that could have been accomplished. He didn't need to go all the way out to SC for that.

Two things I forgot to mention in my last post are touched on here. The cameras are not as surprising to me because they're everywhere. In the last week, I've probably walked in front of a camera 200 times -- cameras at work, cameras at businesses, cameras at houses. How many times does the news broadcast images of suspects last seen on surveillance? I can think of two that I wrote this week alone. They're everywhere.

Also, of the places to dump a car, Sun City wouldn't even hit my radar. HOA's typically patrol for illegally parked cars to ticket as a revenue generator. You could drop a car in a casino garage and it wouldn't be noticed until it started collecting dust. You could dump it in any neighborhood Downtown and no one would notice.

 

[swjaxon]

LDS or FLDS?

Both would apply.

 

[webrocket]

Two things I forgot to mention in my last post are touched on here. The cameras are not as surprising to me because they're everywhere. In the last week, I've probably walked in front of a camera 200 times -- cameras at work, cameras at businesses, cameras at houses. How many times does the news broadcast images of suspects last seen on surveillance? I can think of two that I wrote this week alone. They're everywhere.

Also, of the places to dump a car, Sun City wouldn't even hit my radar. HOA's typically patrol for illegally parked cars to ticket as a revenue generator. You could drop a car in a casino garage and it wouldn't be noticed until it started collecting dust. You could dump it in any neighborhood Downtown and no one would notice.

Perhaps that is the point and we have the answer as to why Sun Anthem City (SAC) was chosen.

SAC is NOT downtown LV where there are cameras everywhere. There are probably NO public cameras in SAC so they assumed it was a safe drop off point away from the ubiquitous surveillance cameras in the rest of the city. Mr. Security's cameras were totally unexpected.

 

[laytonian]

I don't know anyone who carries a gun on their person without thinking they're going to need it. Just my take.

Me, neither. BUT...there's lots of people (at least here) who HOPE they'll need it.

 

[laytonian]

Perhaps that is the point and we have the answer as to why Sun Anthem City (SAC) was chosen.

SAC is NOT downtown LV where there are cameras everywhere. There are probably NO public cameras in SAC so they assumed it was a safe drop off point away from the ubiquitous surveillance cameras in the rest of the city. Mr. Security's cameras were totally unexpected.

Yeppers. Especially if you're a rather naive guy who's always lived in Amarillo, Brazil on a mission, Rexburg Idaho, Salt Lake, Davis County or St George Utah. And really doesn't care where he's leaving the car. None of his important possessions are inside it.

You're not going to be very familiar with miles and miles of HOA-operated subdivisions. "There's the Overlook Village sign. THAT'S where I'm supposed to turn."

 

[swjaxon]

Perhaps that is the point and we have the answer as to why Sun Anthem City (SAC) was chosen.

SAC is NOT downtown LV where there are cameras everywhere. There are probably NO public cameras in SAC so they assumed it was a safe drop off point away from the ubiquitous surveillance cameras in the rest of the city. Mr. Security's cameras were totally unexpected.

I think it's unlikely. There are plenty of nondescript neighborhoods in Downtown LV (for instance, I used to live in this area). But you're right, it is a possiblity.

 

[liz b.]

SWJaxon,
I think that both men were caught on camera by happenstance. I didn't start out thinking they were connected at all ; just a lot of odd coincidences in each case. But, as I read more, I wondered. What I do ind interesting is that both men seemed on their way to meeting someone just before they vanished. And we know that because they are caught on videotape. But, it is not that fact which might link them.Vanishing without a trace links them....

 

[NotNoseyObservant]

I don't really know what a gun has to do with the other case - I know a lot of people that carry guns around - don't know why they do - I think it's a cowboy thing- just saying. My mom, granddad, bff, 4 uncles, a couple other buddies- I don't get it but a lot of my family & friends do.
I agree with the response to the FLDS - FLDS do not operate that way - very much there own society & like to keep it that way great job everyone. Hope you all have a great weekend - & much luck to you Naegle & the family - I'll be sending some more prayers up for you guys.

 

[hollyblue]

We're positive that this person in Illinois, is the same person as in St George, Utah?

Not !00%, but imagine StillLooking may confirm.
She said he was from Chicago and gave his general physical description. Many people in that area say the Chicago area, especially if the they are from very small towns. Il. is perceived as being in thirds to locals. North, Central and Southern. Not many Jordan Zirkle's out there. Only 1 in Il.-many towns within the same county, and he fit the description SL had given.

I keep getting *hints* at Tuscon for family, but can't confirm.

 

[Fairy1]

Not !00%, but imagine StillLooking may confirm.
She said he was from Chicago and gave his general physical description. Many people in that area say the Chicago area, especially if the they are from very small towns. Il. is perceived as being in thirds to locals. North, Central and Southern. Not many Jordan Zirkle's out there. Only 1 in Il.-many towns within the same county, and he fit the description SL had given.

I keep getting *hints* at Tuscon for family, but can't confirm.

It's really hard for me to imagine how someone from Chicago could wind up in St. George, Utah. Not saying it's impossible. I just wonder what the reason would be.

 

[hollyblue]

They've done a lot (no one is saying that they haven't). We're just trying to ferret out the little details.

For instance, it says "the police called them" and told them the car was found abandoned.

Yet, we've always been told it was the HOA who left a message on their phone on the 16th, the message was retrieved on the 17th, and it really doesn't say when Steven was actually reported as missing to LE.

Man....more questions.

If I remember correctly, it was the 18th--same day the PI was hired.

 

[laytonian]

It's really hard for me to imagine how someone from Chicago could wind up in St. George, Utah. Not saying it's impossible. I just wonder what the reason would be.

Maybe he got sent to live with relatives in St George or Vegas?

 

[Fairy1]

Maybe he got sent to live with relatives in St George or Vegas?

I suppose. Maybe he had gotten into trouble in Chicago and they were trying to get him straightened out. I don't guess Vegas would be the best city for that. Then again, doesn't sound like St. George did the trick either!

 

[Helix11]

I live in the Chicago area and I actually have quite a few LDS friends here that have moved multiple times between the midwest, Idaho and Utah (SLC or otherwise). It's totally possible. The reason why JRZ moved from Chi to UT? I have no clue...

 

[hollyblue]

"BUT....what stands out to me, is that his boss got the phone call, and (apparently) didn't think to notify anyone. If someone worked for/with me, and I'd not seen them doing their job and suddenly, I get a call saying that their car has been abandoned for two days, I'd be making some calls!"--Laytonian from a page back or so...

I quoted that text because I think this guy is pretty important too and we haven't even been thinking about him. His lack of urgency is suspicious to me. Do we know that Steven got along with his boss? Could there have been tension between the two of them because of the money situation? If Steven was hurting for money, it's likely his boss was struggling also. What do you guys think?

I think it wouldn't hurt to find out the *feel* for the relationship between the two. I don't think there would be much of a need for window washers in the winter, but I don't know the business. Could be very possible he experienced similar employee actions before; people just not showing up for work at all or for a few days without notification. How many hours a week did Steven work. Was there a regular schedule or per diam?

 

[Fairy1]

I live in the Chicago area and I actually have quite a few LDS friends here that have moved multiple times between the midwest, Idaho and Utah (SLC or otherwise). It's totally possible. The reason why JRZ moved from Chi to UT? I have no clue...

Is JZ LDS? Doesn't sound like it to me!

 

[Helix11]

Is JZ LDS? Doesn't sound like it to me!

Hmm...yeah I hadn't thought about it really, but I know plenty of LDS people that smoke pot or even do harder drugs. Not saying that is how JZ or SK are, but just saying you can't judge a book by the cover, I guess.

 

[Fairy1]

I think it wouldn't hurt to find out the *feel* for the relationship between the two. I don't think there would be much of a need for window washers in the winter, but I don't know the business. Could be very possible he experienced similar employee actions before; people just not showing up for work at all or for a few days without notification. How many hours a week did Steven work. Was there a regular schedule or per diam?

I agree. It would be good to know if Steven was expected to report to work somewhere or somehow on a daily basis. If he was, I sure would like to know if his boss attempted to call him and find out where he was for 4 days. If not, I think we should discuss how Steven accounted for whatever he earned working "for" this fellow. If he was going door-to-door, exactly how would that be tracked by his employer?

 

[Fairy1]

Hmm...yeah I hadn't thought about it really, but I know plenty of LDS people that smoke pot or even do harder drugs. Not saying that is how JZ or SK are, but just saying you can't judge a book by the cover, I guess.

So true. And we should remember that as we continue our work here.

 

[hollyblue]

What if the other driver, was driving a cab?

You call them, tell them what intersection you're at, and it's up to them to figure out where you are, and to pick you up.

Whose phone did he use?