NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 3

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  • #201
....or, IF he went there on purpose, the answer may lie with the person who met him there, and drove him away.

I think it's equally possible that he parked there at random. It's inconvenient and hard to find, if you're looking for it. But if you're on Anthem Parkway, take a right turn and a left, you end up in that cul de sac.

I doubt it. I can't stress this enough -- that neighborhood is a destination. There is nothing out there and for this guy to find it tells me he went there for a reason. There's literally nothing out there and thousands of other places in town to drop a vehicle and disappear.

Frankly, dropping a car in Sun City is going to be more obvious than dropping a car in Downtown LV.
 
  • #202
The problem I have always had with him meeting someone in a car is that he waited in his car until EXACTLY 12:00. Whenever I meet someone at a given time and location someone always gets there first. Usually whomever gets there first calls the other one and says "are you here yet." Since there are no records of calls I believe he was meeting someone that he had a noon appointment with at a specific house. Now they may have left from the house in another car together but I don't think two cars met there and left.

BBM-I think that the key is in these details as well. As SWJaxon states, the answer lies in the neighborhood. JMO. His actions are deliberate and purposeful-again, JMO.
 
  • #203
I doubt it. I can't stress this enough -- that neighborhood is a destination. There is nothing out there and for this guy to find it tells me he went there for a reason. There's literally nothing out there and thousands of other places in town to drop a vehicle and disappear.

Frankly, dropping a car in Sun City is going to be more obvious than dropping a car in Downtown LV.

If Steven voluntarily disappeared, which I have believed from the outset, he was taking his cues from whomever was assisting him. This other person or persons no doubt instructed him to leave the car there. Why Sun Anthem? You'd have to ask the person who set it up, however, if the intent was to create confusion it sort of worked, except they were not counting on Mr. Security and his billion cameras capturing him parking the car.
 
  • #204
What if the other driver, was driving a cab?

You call them, tell them what intersection you're at, and it's up to them to figure out where you are, and to pick you up.

Why wouldn't the cab pull right up next to his car? TOL
 
  • #205
Okay we may have decided this before but, where was the ping from his cell phone when he called his voicemail on the 14th? That would tell us something about what happened after what we see in the videos.
 
  • #206
Why wouldn't the cab pull right up next to his car? TOL

He didn't know the address of the dead-end, but did know the name of the intersection?
 
  • #207
Okay we may have decided this before but, where was the ping from his cell phone when he called his voicemail on the 14th? That would tell us something about what happened after what we see in the videos.

All we know is "Vegas area".

What kinda bugs me is it's know that his phone hit "the Overton tower" on Dec 12th, yet no specific tower(s) in the Vegas area have been ID'd for the call to voicemail on the 14th.

Frankly, I can't believe the cell phone records haven't been turned over, by now, to someone who could analyze them.

Remember the Kim family disappearance? Two cel lphone company techies figured out the general area they were in--
"Although the Kims had a cellular phone with them, their remote location in the mountains was out of range of the cellular network, rendering the phone unusable for voice calls. Little did they know that, despite being unusable for voice calls, their cell phone would play a key role in their rescue. Cell phone text messages may go through even when there appears to be no signal, in part because text messaging is a store-and-forward service. Two Edge Wireless engineers, Eric Fuqua and Noah Pugsley, contacted search and rescue authorities offering their help in the search. On Saturday, December 2, they began searching through the data logs of cell sites, trying to find records of repeaters to which the Kims' cellphone may have connected. They discovered that on November 26, 2006 at around 1:30 a.m., the Kim's cellphone made a brief automatic connection to a cell site near Glendale, Oregon, and retrieved two text messages. Through the data logs, the engineers determined that the cell phone was in a specific area west of the cellular tower. They then used a computer program to determine which areas in the mountains were within a line-of-sight to the cellular tower. This narrowed the search area tremendously, and finally focused rescue efforts on Bear Camp Road."

On the afternoon of December 4, John Rachor, a local helicopter pilot unaffiliated with any formal search effort, spotted Mrs. Kim and her two daughters walking on a remote road. After he radioed the family's position to authorities, the three were airlifted out of the area and transferred to a nearby hospital.
Law enforcement officials said that the discovery of the cellphone connection, and the subsequent analysis of the log data, was the critical breakthrough that ultimately resulted in the rescue of Kim's wife and daughters by helicopter.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

I think Naegle's pretty much on her own, trying to figure out this kind of thing.
 
  • #208
Hmm...yeah. I think "somewhere in Vegas" is way too vague for the circumstances here. This is THE last known communication that Steven made and might be a clue to where he was headed.

These are things I think we should really be looking into more deeply:
1. More info about Steven's boss. (Lay, I think you already got that on the list of ?s for tonight)
2. More specifics about this cell phone ping on the 14th.
3. As always, more info about GW. If it was me, I would be giving him a full-on police interrogation. I really think he is suspicious based on the manner in which he responded to questions (per the articles written) and because we STILL don't know if he went to church on the 13th. I am not saying he is a kidnapper/murderer or even a criminal, I just think he holds vital information that he is not giving up.
 
  • #209
Hmm...yeah. I think "somewhere in Vegas" is way too vague for the circumstances here. This is THE last known communication that Steven made and might be a clue to where he was headed.

These are things I think we should really be looking into more deeply:
1. More info about Steven's boss. (Lay, I think you already got that on the list of ?s for tonight)
2. More specifics about this cell phone ping on the 14th.
3. As always, more info about GW. If it was me, I would be giving him a full-on police interrogation. I really think he is suspicious based on the manner in which he responded to questions (per the articles written) and because we STILL don't know if he went to church on the 13th. I am not saying he is a kidnapper/murderer or even a criminal, I just think he holds vital information that he is not giving up.

I get your frustration-GW may be covering a few skeletons, but it is a leap for me to think he did away with his friend. It will be interesting to see if GW is a direction for the investigation....
 
  • #210
Hmm...yeah. I think "somewhere in Vegas" is way too vague for the circumstances here. This is THE last known communication that Steven made and might be a clue to where he was headed.

These are things I think we should really be looking into more deeply:
1. More info about Steven's boss. (Lay, I think you already got that on the list of ?s for tonight)
2. More specifics about this cell phone ping on the 14th.
3. As always, more info about GW. If it was me, I would be giving him a full-on police interrogation. I really think he is suspicious based on the manner in which he responded to questions (per the articles written) and because we STILL don't know if he went to church on the 13th. I am not saying he is a kidnapper/murderer or even a criminal, I just think he holds vital information that he is not giving up.

Poor Naegle's going to run away screaming when she gets her homework tonight. I have 15 questions about that window-washing "independent contractor" thing, LOTS of cellphone questions and probably 10 other things.

I'm also sending her the info on the James Kim case, hoping that they will contact Steven's cellphone company and ask for assistance from them. I mean, really. Shouldn't the cellphone company be able to spit out in-the-clear triangulation data?

I don't think we're going to get any more, at least from Naegle, about GW. She's not in a position to investigate him. If you look on FB, even some of Steven's own ward members are posting, and none of them have asked, either.
 
  • #211
Poor Naegle's going to run away screaming when she gets her homework tonight. I have 15 questions about that window-washing "independent contractor" thing, LOTS of cellphone questions and probably 10 other things.

I'm also sending her the info on the James Kim case, hoping that they will contact Steven's cellphone company and ask for assistance from them. I mean, really. Shouldn't the cellphone company be able to spit out in-the-clear triangulation data?

I don't think we're going to get any more, at least from Naegle, about GW. She's not in a position to investigate him. If you look on FB, even some of Steven's own ward members are posting, and none of them have asked, either.

I believe it's because of his position in the church. For those of you that are not familiar with the lds church here is a brief run down of the hierarchy at the ward level:

Bishop-in charge of every ward member
1st counselor in the bishopric
2nd counselor in the bishopric
Ward Clerk

Elders Quorom President-Leader of the males typically 19-40 yrs old
1st counselor of the quorom of elders
2nd counselor of the quorom of elders
Secretary of the quorom of elders

For this reason it is not hard for me to believe that no one is questioning their leader.
 
  • #212
I did not intend for KC or any member of GW's actual ward to "police-style interrogate" him. What I meant is for the police to actually do this. I don't know how extensive they've gone, and I certainly don't need/want Naegle to get flustered about this. I understand not wanting to question your religious leader because it undermines their authority and makes it look as though you are questioning your faith. However, someone outside the church could do this without implications behind it.

I understand that this is a touchy subject and I know that Naegle and the rest of the family members probably want to just believe him, but it's just too fishy for me. And I said this before but just to emphasize...I do NOT think he's a murderer or criminal, I just think he has information that is important for Steven's case.
 
  • #213
  • #214
In the Elizabeth Olten case, it was quickly determined by pings that the cell phone she had was deep in the woods behind her house.

Naegle's family has those cell phone records, but they reformatted and looked like gibberish when printed.

Whoever did the cell phone pinging should have been able to say where the phone was. It can usually be pinpointed within 50 feet. The family needs to go back to the original source of the ping to get the location.

My thoughts on the phone... Steven had it in Vegas, then was done with it. If it had been stolen, the person who took it could have picked up a new charger for it at a very low cost. Steven could have done the same, but if he was intending to disappear for awhile, he may very well have tossed it in the trash.

The cell phone location could be a very important clue. Like, maybe it pinged at McCarran.

Please ask Naegle why the family was not given the location of the cell phone ping.

.
 
  • #215
In the Elizabeth Olten case, it was quickly determined by pings that the cell phone she had was deep in the woods behind her house.

Naegle's family has those cell phone records, but they reformatted and looked like gibberish when printed.

.

If they turned into gibberish, they could have requested a new file (OR...information on what software was needed to read them). They still exist in their original form.

Question added.
 
  • #216
I did not intend for KC or any member of GW's actual ward to "police-style interrogate" him. What I meant is for the police to actually do this. I don't know how extensive they've gone, and I certainly don't need/want Naegle to get flustered about this. I understand not wanting to question your religious leader because it undermines their authority and makes it look as though you are questioning your faith. However, someone outside the church could do this without implications behind it.

I understand that this is a touchy subject and I know that Naegle and the rest of the family members probably want to just believe him, but it's just too fishy for me. And I said this before but just to emphasize...I do NOT think he's a murderer or criminal, I just think he has information that is important for Steven's case.

I didnt really think you did-sorry if my post didnt make that clear! :crazy:
 
  • #217
  • #218
In the Elizabeth Olten case, it was quickly determined by pings that the cell phone she had was deep in the woods behind her house.

Naegle's family has those cell phone records, but they reformatted and looked like gibberish when printed.

Whoever did the cell phone pinging should have been able to say where the phone was. It can usually be pinpointed within 50 feet. The family needs to go back to the original source of the ping to get the location.

My thoughts on the phone... Steven had it in Vegas, then was done with it. If it had been stolen, the person who took it could have picked up a new charger for it at a very low cost. Steven could have done the same, but if he was intending to disappear for awhile, he may very well have tossed it in the trash.

The cell phone location could be a very important clue. Like, maybe it pinged at McCarran.

Please ask Naegle why the family was not given the location of the cell phone ping.

.

ITA paris! I really don't think the importance of the phone pings - times and locations - can possibly be overstated.

If Steven actually showed up in Vegas on Saturday night - 12/12 - we have about 11 1/2 hours unaccounted for before he showed up in that video.

Isn't this a pretty standard investigative tool for LE these days? Why hasn't this been done?!?!?!
 
  • #219
I believe it's because of his position in the church. For those of you that are not familiar with the lds church here is a brief run down of the hierarchy at the ward level:

Bishop-in charge of every ward member
1st counselor in the bishopric
2nd counselor in the bishopric
Ward Clerk

Elders Quorom President-Leader of the males typically 19-40 yrs old
1st counselor of the quorom of elders
2nd counselor of the quorom of elders
Secretary of the quorom of elders

For this reason it is not hard for me to believe that no one is questioning their leader.

I'm sure you're absolutely right. But that doesn't make IT right. There is a man missing and NO ONE is above the law.
 
  • #220
I get your frustration-GW may be covering a few skeletons, but it is a leap for me to think he did away with his friend. It will be interesting to see if GW is a direction for the investigation....

GW was there for Steven in the first days after he went missing.
GW gave an interview, he is seen posing with Steven's missing flier in
front of Steven's house.
GW may well know more than he has said so far.
But, he may have told all he knows to Steven's family and the police.

There are secrets in every family, with every person, as we all are aware.
Some of those secrets are not earth shattering, but would we want everyone to know them.

IMO
 
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