LV Area events for December 12 & 13:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/events/2009/dec/12/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/events/2009/dec/13/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/events/2009/dec/12/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/events/2009/dec/13/
NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 4
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Sadly, I'm sure you're right about this. Maybe after this is all unraveled...
I don't know what you could do with the homeless camp, unless you and an army went in (armed) while it was unoccupied, and posted a flyer on the wall.
Thanks for the update on the DI. It never hurts.
harleysnana
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I wonder if Naegle can answer...
do any of these seem like something Steven would go to Vegas for?
Also... do we know or can we find out why GW was in Vegas?
Is it just me or does anyone else think it's strange that someone would
go to Vegas by themself?
I also think it's weird that he woldn't tell someone in the EQ that he was
not going to make it to church on Sunday.
Did he tell anyone he was going?
What are the reasons a single guy would go to Vegas by himself....
I'm not sure I believe he came to Vegas by himself and I think someone at the church already knew he wouldn't be there....
I was kinda hoping LE would check out the homeless camp. I gave Naegle the exact address back when I visited the IHOP and suggested she give the info to the investigators on this case. Not sure if that happened. Chances are, they would have to get lucky and find Steven there as it seems unlikely the other residents would admit it if he was hanging around there.
I'm going to try to call the DI welfare offices up on Craig tomorrow. If I can find a sympathetic ear, I'll e-mail Steven's flyer. I just can't shake the feeling that this connection may be key, if Steven is alive and well somewhere in Las Vegas.
The way Naegle explained it, it was Webb's responsibility to cover the PEC meeting and plan the worship service; if he couldn't be there, it was Koecher's responsibility.
To me, the question is: why did Webb not check with Koecher *before* Webb went to Vegas, to make sure Koecher could have covered PEC for him?
Why would a single guy go to Vegas by himself?
Uh....you know
But we really don't know if he was "in" Vegas, or coming back from somewhere else. All we have is the neighbor saying he saw Steven pull into his home about 10pm, and leave about 10:30pm.
I wonder if Nosy Neighbor called the landlord and told him "he's THERE!"
The way Naegle explained it, it was Webb's responsibility to cover the PEC meeting and plan the worship service; if he couldn't be there, it was Koecher's responsibility.
To me, the question is: why did Webb not check with Koecher *before* Webb went to Vegas, to make sure Koecher could have covered PEC for him?
Why would a single guy go to Vegas by himself?
Uh....you know
But we really don't know if he was "in" Vegas, or coming back from somewhere else. All we have is the neighbor saying he saw Steven pull into his home about 10pm, and leave about 10:30pm.
I wonder if Nosy Neighbor called the landlord and told him "he's THERE!"
BBM - Oh - where to begin?
And speaking of nosy neighbors...believe09 mentioned it earlier today and I think I brought it up before as well - I find it impossible to believe that NO ONE in that entire Sun City Anthem neighborhood remembers seeing Steven(or whoever was driving his car)! It's a retirement community for crying out loud! In my experience, older folks tend to be more vigilant about what's happening in their 'hoods. Surely there had to be people out and about on a Sunday afternoon. Driving, walking, jogging, etc. Nothing? I just don't get it.
ella's mom
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Just catching up for the day. Hollyblue, Laytonian has been kind enough to be our go to person with Naegle (Steven's cousin). As soon as she has any responses from Naegle she posts them. There are several pages there. Some of your questions may have already been asked and answered.
Another long post. . .
Laytonian and Naegle, I have timeline questions or insights:
Today is the first day I took a detailed look at the timeline. Since I live in Vegas and have been up and down the I-15 about a hundred times the 12 years I have been here, there are some things that seem weird to me.
1. So, he fills up with gas (with a credit card I guess) in Springville, UT on Dec. 10 at an unknown time. Then he is in Nephi, UT at 6:24pm Pacific. There is about 30 miles between the two. The latest he could have been in Springville is about 5:50pm Pacific. (From now on all times will be in Pacific Time)
2. Let's back up for a second. So, he drives from Ruby Valley thru Salt Lake City and doesn't stop to see anyone? Really? Instead the next record of him is in Springville and just about the only way he could have gotten to Springville at that time is to go thru Salt Lake City. That's weird. Did not stop to see friends or family?
3. So, on Friday at 2pm, he helps the kids who are locked out of their house. Do we have an address for that? What was he doing in the neighborhood? I know he was a window cleaner. But it's Utah. In Winter. Wouldn't a window cleaner be a little bit beside the point? Maybe he could be helping put up decorations but it's two weeks till Christmas. Aren't most decorations up by that time? Do we have any record of him doing any work in that neighborhood at all? A work order from his boss? A mileage statement that Steven might have phoned in to his boss? I know doing what Steven did he was probably paid in cash but somewhere there has to be a record of him doing something at some time in that neighborhood. Now, if he was just canvassing the neighborhood with cards. . .I guess. But once again. It's Utah. It's Winter. It's Cold. It's windy. Most decorations would be up by then. Now, if he was shoveling snow, digging out cars, etc. I get it. But, otherwise, it seems strange.
3a. On that same day, he buys food at Jack in the Box, seemingly with a credit card. The bill is $3.21. The last bill was $3.64 at Taco Time. Dude is not eating very much. He could be using cash to buy other food but why would he go back and forth between using a card and using cash? By his food spending habits it does not look like he was "going out with a blast". His spending habits tell me that he did not anticipate any problems ahead.
4. Here comes the confusing part. And like I said I know that highway very well. Dec. 12 he heads down to Mesquite but a cell phone tower in Overton!!! picks up his phone, meaning he went well past Mesquite. The Overton exit on the 15 is south of Mesquite. But, at some point, he turns around heads back thru Mesquite, stops in Mesquite. . .but only gets $6 of gas but $12 of whatever else. (That's all weird). Heads back to St. George. Does some shopping in St. George. Stops at home. . .does not drop off the presents (weird). . .is only home for 20 minutes, jumps back in his car and drives to Vegas at 10:30 at night. . .TOTALLY backtracking thru the entire day. When he was at Overton earlier, he was less than 45 minutes from Vegas. Instead, he drove back the other way to St. George which is approximately forty five minutes away. Then, turned around and came back. But he stops at home but does not drop off the presents. Questions:
-are there any calls registered in the time that Stephen was near St. George the night of Dec. 12?
If you ask me and I am trying to make logical sense of it all, if someone comes home and then goes almost right back out the door I think they got a message about something. Note, voicemail, email, etc. My instincts tell me that he went down to Overton/Mesquite to look for work. . .maybe. He comes back to St. George to do some shopping, intending to take those back to SLC. However, something comes up that says he needs to be in Vegas. So, he zips home. . .goes to the bathroom, grabs some things (who knows), jumps in his car and heads to Vegas. The only reason he would have left the presents in the car is if he thought eventually he would be going to SLC. My instincts tell me that whatever happened Dec. 12 in the evening is when this disappearance all started. There was something that told Steven "I am not going to be coming back this way (thru St. George) so I have to leave the presents in the car."
The other part that seems weird is that he only bought six gallons of gas in Mesquite. Granted, he might have been using cash too but most people don't go back and forth. Most people either use a credit card consistently or cash consistently. By my calculations, if he filled up on Dec 10 and then drove all of those miles, I don't care what kind of car it is unless it is a Prius, he is going to need more than $6 to fill up his car. Six bucks gets you only two and a half gallons at the most.
Now, on Dec. 13, his car was parked on Savannah Lights with a half tank left. Going backwards, to Mesquite the previous day that is approx. 160miles. Although it is hard to put in words, there is something about this fuel stuff that does not jive. Granted, it jives if cash is being used here and there but the purchase of only $6 on Dec. 12 is strange. But, being that the car had a half tank in Vegas tells me that he started from St. George with a full tank.
It would be nice if we could narrow down what happened on the evening of Dec. 12. . .between emails, phone calls, Facebook, etc. . .his friend Webb must have been in Vegas by that time, right? How do we know Webb didn't reach Steven somehow and tell him to come to Vegas. So, Steven drops everything and goes to Vegas. That seems to fit Steven's behavior for that evening.
By the way, reached a friend of mine who was a service manager for a Chevy dealership here in Vegas from 1999 to 2006, Chevy did not make any flex/alt fuel Cavalier/Cobalt/Sunfire in 2003. So, what's been all this talk about Steven's car being some hybrid? It probably got like 30 miles to the gallon like every other smaller car. The only alt. fuel vehicles made by Chevy at the time were Silverados, Tahoes, Impalas. And I doublechecked that with wikipedia. Steven's car was a regular old 4 cylinder engine. So, for our calculations we should be using a mpg of about 30.
What happened the evening of Dec. 12?
Laytonian and Naegle, I have timeline questions or insights:
Today is the first day I took a detailed look at the timeline. Since I live in Vegas and have been up and down the I-15 about a hundred times the 12 years I have been here, there are some things that seem weird to me.
1. So, he fills up with gas (with a credit card I guess) in Springville, UT on Dec. 10 at an unknown time. Then he is in Nephi, UT at 6:24pm Pacific. There is about 30 miles between the two. The latest he could have been in Springville is about 5:50pm Pacific. (From now on all times will be in Pacific Time)
2. Let's back up for a second. So, he drives from Ruby Valley thru Salt Lake City and doesn't stop to see anyone? Really? Instead the next record of him is in Springville and just about the only way he could have gotten to Springville at that time is to go thru Salt Lake City. That's weird. Did not stop to see friends or family?
3. So, on Friday at 2pm, he helps the kids who are locked out of their house. Do we have an address for that? What was he doing in the neighborhood? I know he was a window cleaner. But it's Utah. In Winter. Wouldn't a window cleaner be a little bit beside the point? Maybe he could be helping put up decorations but it's two weeks till Christmas. Aren't most decorations up by that time? Do we have any record of him doing any work in that neighborhood at all? A work order from his boss? A mileage statement that Steven might have phoned in to his boss? I know doing what Steven did he was probably paid in cash but somewhere there has to be a record of him doing something at some time in that neighborhood. Now, if he was just canvassing the neighborhood with cards. . .I guess. But once again. It's Utah. It's Winter. It's Cold. It's windy. Most decorations would be up by then. Now, if he was shoveling snow, digging out cars, etc. I get it. But, otherwise, it seems strange.
3a. On that same day, he buys food at Jack in the Box, seemingly with a credit card. The bill is $3.21. The last bill was $3.64 at Taco Time. Dude is not eating very much. He could be using cash to buy other food but why would he go back and forth between using a card and using cash? By his food spending habits it does not look like he was "going out with a blast". His spending habits tell me that he did not anticipate any problems ahead.
4. Here comes the confusing part. And like I said I know that highway very well. Dec. 12 he heads down to Mesquite but a cell phone tower in Overton!!! picks up his phone, meaning he went well past Mesquite. The Overton exit on the 15 is south of Mesquite. But, at some point, he turns around heads back thru Mesquite, stops in Mesquite. . .but only gets $6 of gas but $12 of whatever else. (That's all weird). Heads back to St. George. Does some shopping in St. George. Stops at home. . .does not drop off the presents (weird). . .is only home for 20 minutes, jumps back in his car and drives to Vegas at 10:30 at night. . .TOTALLY backtracking thru the entire day. When he was at Overton earlier, he was less than 45 minutes from Vegas. Instead, he drove back the other way to St. George which is approximately forty five minutes away. Then, turned around and came back. But he stops at home but does not drop off the presents. Questions:
-are there any calls registered in the time that Stephen was near St. George the night of Dec. 12?
If you ask me and I am trying to make logical sense of it all, if someone comes home and then goes almost right back out the door I think they got a message about something. Note, voicemail, email, etc. My instincts tell me that he went down to Overton/Mesquite to look for work. . .maybe. He comes back to St. George to do some shopping, intending to take those back to SLC. However, something comes up that says he needs to be in Vegas. So, he zips home. . .goes to the bathroom, grabs some things (who knows), jumps in his car and heads to Vegas. The only reason he would have left the presents in the car is if he thought eventually he would be going to SLC. My instincts tell me that whatever happened Dec. 12 in the evening is when this disappearance all started. There was something that told Steven "I am not going to be coming back this way (thru St. George) so I have to leave the presents in the car."
The other part that seems weird is that he only bought six gallons of gas in Mesquite. Granted, he might have been using cash too but most people don't go back and forth. Most people either use a credit card consistently or cash consistently. By my calculations, if he filled up on Dec 10 and then drove all of those miles, I don't care what kind of car it is unless it is a Prius, he is going to need more than $6 to fill up his car. Six bucks gets you only two and a half gallons at the most.
Now, on Dec. 13, his car was parked on Savannah Lights with a half tank left. Going backwards, to Mesquite the previous day that is approx. 160miles. Although it is hard to put in words, there is something about this fuel stuff that does not jive. Granted, it jives if cash is being used here and there but the purchase of only $6 on Dec. 12 is strange. But, being that the car had a half tank in Vegas tells me that he started from St. George with a full tank.
It would be nice if we could narrow down what happened on the evening of Dec. 12. . .between emails, phone calls, Facebook, etc. . .his friend Webb must have been in Vegas by that time, right? How do we know Webb didn't reach Steven somehow and tell him to come to Vegas. So, Steven drops everything and goes to Vegas. That seems to fit Steven's behavior for that evening.
By the way, reached a friend of mine who was a service manager for a Chevy dealership here in Vegas from 1999 to 2006, Chevy did not make any flex/alt fuel Cavalier/Cobalt/Sunfire in 2003. So, what's been all this talk about Steven's car being some hybrid? It probably got like 30 miles to the gallon like every other smaller car. The only alt. fuel vehicles made by Chevy at the time were Silverados, Tahoes, Impalas. And I doublechecked that with wikipedia. Steven's car was a regular old 4 cylinder engine. So, for our calculations we should be using a mpg of about 30.
What happened the evening of Dec. 12?
ella's mom
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Yes, it was near the bottom of the page:
Sleepwalking/Talking – Per Naegle (Thread #1, #318) Steven is almost famous for talking and walking/acting in his sleep.
ETA: Sorry Laytonian. See you already posted this.
dreamweaver
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fasteddy:
snipped your post respectfully for space:
It would be nice if we could narrow down what happened on the evening of Dec. 12. . .between emails, phone calls, Facebook, etc. . .his friend Webb must have been in Vegas by that time, right? How do we know Webb didn't reach Steven somehow and tell him to come to Vegas. So, Steven drops everything and goes to Vegas. That seems to fit Steven's behavior for that evening.
By the way, reached a friend of mine who was a service manager for a Chevy dealership here in Vegas from 1999 to 2006, Chevy did not make any flex/alt fuel Cavalier/Cobalt/Sunfire in 2003. So, what's been all this talk about Steven's car being some hybrid? It probably got like 30 miles to the gallon like every other smaller car. The only alt. fuel vehicles made by Chevy at the time were Silverados, Tahoes, Impalas. And I doublechecked that with wikipedia. Steven's car was a regular old 4 cylinder engine. So, for our calculations we should be using a mpg of about 30.
What happened the evening of Dec. 12?
I am glad you brought this to WS attention. Having someone who is very familiar with the roads and entire area gives a new perspective.
And his car is not a hybid. ? Interesting.
snipped your post respectfully for space:
It would be nice if we could narrow down what happened on the evening of Dec. 12. . .between emails, phone calls, Facebook, etc. . .his friend Webb must have been in Vegas by that time, right? How do we know Webb didn't reach Steven somehow and tell him to come to Vegas. So, Steven drops everything and goes to Vegas. That seems to fit Steven's behavior for that evening.
By the way, reached a friend of mine who was a service manager for a Chevy dealership here in Vegas from 1999 to 2006, Chevy did not make any flex/alt fuel Cavalier/Cobalt/Sunfire in 2003. So, what's been all this talk about Steven's car being some hybrid? It probably got like 30 miles to the gallon like every other smaller car. The only alt. fuel vehicles made by Chevy at the time were Silverados, Tahoes, Impalas. And I doublechecked that with wikipedia. Steven's car was a regular old 4 cylinder engine. So, for our calculations we should be using a mpg of about 30.
What happened the evening of Dec. 12?
I am glad you brought this to WS attention. Having someone who is very familiar with the roads and entire area gives a new perspective.
And his car is not a hybid. ? Interesting.
From Wikipedia on sleep walking:
Psychological disorders and drug use
In some cases, sleepwalking in adults may be a symptom of a psychological disorder or of drug use. One study done by A.H. Crisp et al. of St. George's Hospital Medical School in London supports the possibility of dissociation in adult sleepwalkers because the test subjects scored unusually high on the hysteria portion of the Crown-Crisp experiential index.[16] According to J.E. Orme, an expert in psychology, A higher incidence [of sleepwalking events] has been reported in patients with schizophrenia, hysteria and anxiety neuroses.[citation needed] Also, patients with migraine headaches or Tourette Syndrome are 46 times more likely to sleepwalk. Some medications that may precipitate sleepwalking include: Chlorpromazine (Thorazine), perphenazine (Trilafon), lithium, benzodiazepine (Triazolam), amitriptylin (Elavel, Endep), Zolpidem (Ambien) and beta blockers.[1]
Psychological disorders and drug use
In some cases, sleepwalking in adults may be a symptom of a psychological disorder or of drug use. One study done by A.H. Crisp et al. of St. George's Hospital Medical School in London supports the possibility of dissociation in adult sleepwalkers because the test subjects scored unusually high on the hysteria portion of the Crown-Crisp experiential index.[16] According to J.E. Orme, an expert in psychology, A higher incidence [of sleepwalking events] has been reported in patients with schizophrenia, hysteria and anxiety neuroses.[citation needed] Also, patients with migraine headaches or Tourette Syndrome are 46 times more likely to sleepwalk. Some medications that may precipitate sleepwalking include: Chlorpromazine (Thorazine), perphenazine (Trilafon), lithium, benzodiazepine (Triazolam), amitriptylin (Elavel, Endep), Zolpidem (Ambien) and beta blockers.[1]
The flex/dual fuel thing has been misstated and was cleared up early on. In fact, I had to register on WS to comment about "hybrid fuel"....and might have touched off the discussion back then.
The timeline doesn't mention "hybrid". Never has.
Originally, Naegle mentioned that Steven had to go to a special gas station for "hybrid fuel". But there's no such thing; a hybrid is a gas/electric like my Prius. What it PROBABLY is, is a model that you can use ethanol or regular gas in. Naegle's not a mechanic; she just knows she was with him at one time, when he went out of his way to buy the "special" fuel that they didn't sell at the nearest gas station.
Also, I'm going to answer fasteddy4 through this post, since there's so much there, I can't do it all at once.
Eddy, you might want to show your friend this link from the US Department of Energy:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/19273.shtml
"2003 Chevrolet Cavalier Dual-fuel"
The amount of gas purchased in Mesquite was 6.07 gallons, not $6 (fe4's post mentions those figures alternately throughout). The $18+ total included snack(s).
ella's mom
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:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Is it just ME?????
Is it just ME?????
fasteddy4 brings up some good points. Steven was literally less than an hour away from Vegas the day before we believe he was IN Vegas. I don't know why anyone would be searching for work in Overton - or Mesquite for that matter. Overton is primarily a farming community and Mesquite has been hit hard by the recession. I can't imagine why he would be seeking employment in either one of those communities. Maybe he was still in the process of making whatever decision led him to Vegas the following day?
And yes - why didn't he take the Christmas gifts out of his car when he went home that night?
And yes - why didn't he take the Christmas gifts out of his car when he went home that night?
no!!!
I can't help but keep thinking this thought over and over again, so I'm throwing it out there.
GW and Steven seemed to be pretty good friends. There is a FB page showing their Ward Christmas Dinner (might just have been singles? Can't remember) and he's going through the food line with him as well as sitting by him at dinner.
It surprises me that he wouldn't have asked why his buddy was in Vegas. I'm wondering if GW already knew he was in Vegas (maybe they were together) and placed the phone call for another reason (maybe they were meeting for breakfast or something - wouldn't have to be sinister, necessarily). Since Steven went missing, he knew he would have to have a reason to say he called Steven, so he came up with one since maybe the real reason wasn't so good. Maybe the real reason would have looked bad on GW as well.
Not really saying GW did anything but maybe he knew something? Maybe they were down there for the same reason?
ETA: And I just can't believe that SA wouldn't say "oh! GW is in Vegas too, weird!" when he called.
I guess we still need to know if GW made it to the service?
GW and Steven seemed to be pretty good friends. There is a FB page showing their Ward Christmas Dinner (might just have been singles? Can't remember) and he's going through the food line with him as well as sitting by him at dinner.
It surprises me that he wouldn't have asked why his buddy was in Vegas. I'm wondering if GW already knew he was in Vegas (maybe they were together) and placed the phone call for another reason (maybe they were meeting for breakfast or something - wouldn't have to be sinister, necessarily). Since Steven went missing, he knew he would have to have a reason to say he called Steven, so he came up with one since maybe the real reason wasn't so good. Maybe the real reason would have looked bad on GW as well.
Not really saying GW did anything but maybe he knew something? Maybe they were down there for the same reason?
ETA: And I just can't believe that SA wouldn't say "oh! GW is in Vegas too, weird!" when he called.
I guess we still need to know if GW made it to the service?
Yes, yes and YES! Many of us are thinking along these lines. I don't think we're going to get any answers on this angle, but we can hope LE is. It's just too much of a coincidence!
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