NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 4

[ella's mom]

Not really saying GW did anything but maybe he knew something? Maybe they were down there for the same reason?

ETA: And I just can't believe that SA wouldn't say "oh! GW is in Vegas too, weird!" when he called.
I guess we still need to know if GW made it to the service?

That is a good point. I think a lot of people here agree with your thoughts. This has come up a few times in our discussions, in fact many of the questions that have not been answered yet relate to GW.

Below is a list of questions from thread#1 that have not been answered yet:

- Did GW go back to Utah like he said he would for the meeting?
- Has GW been questioned?
- What was GW doing in Vegas and where was he staying?
- How long does the phone record indicate GW’s call to Steven was?

Great minds think alike.

 

[Fairy1]

From Wikipedia on sleep walking:

Psychological disorders and drug use
In some cases, sleepwalking in adults may be a symptom of a psychological disorder or of drug use. One study done by A.H. Crisp et al. of St. George's Hospital Medical School in London supports the possibility of dissociation in adult sleepwalkers because the test subjects scored unusually high on the hysteria portion of the Crown-Crisp experiential index.[16] According to J.E. Orme, an expert in psychology, “A higher incidence [of sleepwalking events] has been reported in patients with schizophrenia, hysteria and anxiety neuroses.”[citation needed] Also, patients with migraine headaches or Tourette Syndrome are 4–6 times more likely to sleepwalk. Some medications that may precipitate sleepwalking include: Chlorpromazine (Thorazine), perphenazine (Trilafon), lithium, benzodiazepine (Triazolam), amitriptylin (Elavel, Endep), Zolpidem (Ambien) and beta blockers.[1]

Sorry to quote myself here, but I'm curious as to the thoughts of those who believe the sleepwalking issue may be a key factor here. Is the above information along the right lines of your thoughts or are we looking for something else?

 

[laytonian]

KC's been scanning the threads tonight, and sent me some feedback to pass along:

----------------------------
Naegle, pure cut/paste from email
"Someone highlighted my word choice of "clinically" when I was answering the question about Steven's possible mental issues, particularly if he was bipolar. He wasn't. Steven's about as level mood-wise as you could get."

"Also, there's been more discussion about Steven's sleepwalking incident. I just just want to clarify that it was all talk on Steven's part. Nothing violent happened that night."

I'm off to continue decoding the cell tower gibberish.

-------------------------------

ME: yay! Cellphone gibberish!

Here's the entire paragraph that Naegle originally posted:

"Interesting! I've wondered if there were mental disorders that might have happened. Steven isn't clinically bipolar and aside from being mildly depressed about the job situ he hasn't been diagnosed with anything. BUT Steven is almost famous for talking and walking/acting in his sleep. I remember a story from family legend where Steven challenged a big burly guy (who was a guest of Steven's roommate) to a fight while he was asleep. He remembered nothing about it when he woke up. "

 

[laytonian]

Yes, yes and YES! Many of us are thinking along these lines. I don't think we're going to get any answers on this angle, but we can hope LE is. It's just too much of a coincidence!

That's exactly right. I don't think anyone from the family is going to put lit matches under the fingernails of anyone in Steven's ward....and rightly so. I also hope LE has discussed things with Webb, et al.

 

[laytonian]

Yes, it was near the bottom of the page:

Sleepwalking/Talking – Per Naegle (Thread #1, #318) Steven is almost famous for talking and walking/acting in his sleep.

ETA: Sorry Laytonian. See you already posted this.

No problem! I wanted to make sure you got credit for your good work AND the fact that you DID put those details in there.

 

[Fairy1]

KC's been scanning the threads tonight, and sent me some feedback to pass along:

----------------------------
Naegle, pure cut/paste from email
"Someone highlighted my word choice of "clinically" when I was answering the question about Steven's possible mental issues, particularly if he was bipolar. He wasn't. Steven's about as level mood-wise as you could get."

"Also, there's been more discussion about Steven's sleepwalking incident. I just just want to clarify that it was all talk on Steven's part. Nothing violent happened that night."

I'm off to continue decoding the cell tower gibberish.

-------------------------------

ME: yay! Cellphone gibberish!

Here's the entire paragraph that Naegle originally posted:

"Interesting! I've wondered if there were mental disorders that might have happened. Steven isn't clinically bipolar and aside from being mildly depressed about the job situ he hasn't been diagnosed with anything. BUT Steven is almost famous for talking and walking/acting in his sleep. I remember a story from family legend where Steven challenged a big burly guy (who was a guest of Steven's roommate) to a fight while he was asleep. He remembered nothing about it when he woke up. "

Great news about the cell phone records! And can I assume we can let go of the sleepwalking thing?

 

[harleysnana]

fasteddy4 brings up some good points. Steven was literally less than an hour away from Vegas the day before we believe he was IN Vegas. I don't know why anyone would be searching for work in Overton - or Mesquite for that matter. Overton is primarily a farming community and Mesquite has been hit hard by the recession. I can't imagine why he would be seeking employment in either one of those communities. Maybe he was still in the process of making whatever decision led him to Vegas the following day?

And yes - why didn't he take the Christmas gifts out of his car when he went home that night?

I love how reading posts makes me think!
Okay… you can not gamble in Utah.
You can gamble in Mesquite and Las Vegas....

Also.. about the window washing in Utah.

St. George is warm. I don’t think it really snows there all that much and if
it does it doesn't last long at all.
I could see people getting their windows washed year round.

JMO

 

[Fairy1]

That's exactly right. I don't think anyone from the family is going to put lit matches under the fingernails of anyone in Steven's ward....and rightly so. I also hope LE has discussed things with Webb, et al.

Of course - the family shouldn't be responsible for questioning the players here. This question or questions have been raised here many, many times and if our hinky meters are of the charts, it's possible that LE's are too. We're going to have to trust them to follow the leads they have.

 

[Fairy1]

I love how reading posts makes me think!
Okay… you can not gamble in Utah.
You can gamble in Mesquite and Las Vegas....

Also.. about the window washing in Utah.

St. George is warm. I don’t think it really snows there all that much and if
it does it doesn't last long at all.
I could see people getting their windows washed year round.

JMO

I've checked out the gambling angle to the best of my ability - being in the biz. I can't say for certain, but it seems unlikely that was Steven's thing. If I'm not mistaken, only 2 of the 3 casino resorts in Mesquite are currently open - Virgin River and the Casablanca. I think the Oasis is closed due to lack of business right now. Should be easy enough to check if he was playing there. I don't think Overton or Logandale have any casinos - would be just bars where someone could gamble.

You're right about the weather in St. George - very similar to Vegas. I wonder how many times a year people generally have their windows washed? Twice maybe? IDK??? It doesn't sound like a very lucrative business in a relatively small town, does it?

 

[laytonian]

I love how reading posts makes me think!
Okay… you can not gamble in Utah.
You can gamble in Mesquite and Las Vegas....

Also.. about the window washing in Utah.

St. George is warm. I don’t think it really snows there all that much and if
it does it doesn't last long at all.
I could see people getting their windows washed year round.

JMO

Thanks - I was just going to comment on the same things. St George is only 100 miles from Vegas, with a very similar climate. In fact, I was just looking at the weather history for the two cities for Dec 11th, and found that it was only 7 degrees warmer in Vegas than in St George.

When we discussed Overton, when Naegle first mentioned the ping, we decided we didn't know if he even got off I-15. The Mesquite and Overton towers (reportedly) overlap in some areas, when you go through the little hills between the towns. I could only find one Overton tower, and know that when we've driven through that area on I-15, we have cellphone coverage.

All we know, is that he was south of St George, bought gas in Mesquite and went back to St George.

fasteddy4: You make VERY good points, and while I might make a few, different small conclusions, they don't matter in the scheme of things.

Based on what we know, there's not a lot of logic to sink our teeth into. Right?

 

[laytonian]

You're right about the weather in St. George - very similar to Vegas. I wonder how many times a year people generally have their windows washed? Twice maybe? IDK??? It doesn't sound like a very lucrative business in a relatively small town, does it?

We don't know where he was soliciting....but if it was in the Bloomington Hills area (his LDS ward area, apparently near where he lived), there's not going to be a lot of business there.

But...if he went into the newer Ivins-Kayenta and newer 'burbs with all of the million dollar+++ homes, there may be business. Those people (Dr J the basketball player, lots of people who moved out of Palm Springs and pricey Vegas) aren't going to clean their own windows. BUT, they also may have household staffs or regular services, so also wouldn't hire someone just to do a few things.
And they definitely don't have venetian blinds.

 

[laytonian]

Great news about the cell phone records! And can I assume we can let go of the sleepwalking thing?

I think we can. It really does sound like one of those "funny guy stories".

 

[Fairy1]

Thanks - I was just going to comment on the same things. St George is only 100 miles from Vegas, with a very similar climate. In fact, I was just looking at the weather history for the two cities for Dec 11th, and found that it was only 7 degrees warmer in Vegas than in St George.

When we discussed Overton, when Naegle first mentioned the ping, we decided we didn't know if he even got off I-15. The Mesquite and Overton towers (reportedly) overlap in some areas, when you go through the little hills between the towns. I could only find one Overton tower, and know that when we've driven through that area on I-15, we have cellphone coverage.

All we know, is that he was south of St George, bought gas in Mesquite and went back to St George.

fasteddy4: You make VERY good points, and while I might make a few, different small conclusions, they don't matter in the scheme of things.

Based on what we know, there's not a lot of logic to sink our teeth into. Right?

I would love to know more about the Overton ping. Mesquite is quite literally RIGHT off I-15. You have to drive a little bit to get to Overton off the I-15 - not far but still off the Interstate. It would be great to know exactly where the Overton tower is located and how far its reach would be and if it would extend out to I-15 as well as to the Lake Mead Rec Area.

 

[capoly]

By the way, reached a friend of mine who was a service manager for a Chevy dealership here in Vegas from 1999 to 2006, Chevy did not make any flex/alt fuel Cavalier/Cobalt/Sunfire in 2003. So, what's been all this talk about Steven's car being some hybrid? It probably got like 30 miles to the gallon like every other smaller car. The only alt. fuel vehicles made by Chevy at the time were Silverados, Tahoes, Impalas. And I doublechecked that with wikipedia. Steven's car was a regular old 4 cylinder engine. So, for our calculations we should be using a mpg of about 30.

What happened the evening of Dec. 12?

[respectfully snipped]

According to the sites in the previous post below Chevrolet did manufacture a 2003 duel/flex-fuel Cavalier. The CNG tank was in the trunk and held the equivalent of 6+ gals of gas.

With both tanks filled the car is said to travel approx 400 miles (100/CNG, 300/gas).

The Flying J Travel Center sells CNG.....the Shell station does not advertise CNG on its site but there appears to be a CNG facility adjacent to the Shell. This could account for the 6+ gal charge.

Have that same question and cannot seem to find a clear answer. According to the these sites.....

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/noframes/19273.shtml

http://e85.whipnet.net/flex.cars/2003.ffv.html

...the dual/flex fuel a 2003 Cavalier uses is CNG. E85 appears to be a single tank formula. And while some cars have engines specifically designed to utilize E85 fuel, on a number of auto forums posters were saying they used it in regular cars to enhance fuel mileage (not consumption lol).

 

[ella's mom]

Hopefully this comes across the right way.....

for those of you that are new to this thread, PLEASE take a look at the following link http://snurl.com/koecher and review the information posted. The author "Laytonian" has put a lot of work into a timeline which includes links to videos, receipts, newspaper articles, etc. If you do not want to review threads #1, #2, and #3, this would be a good place to get up to speed.

It seems now that we are on thread #4 we are gaining more interest in this case, however a lot of new people are asking questions that have been answered in the previous threads and we continue to talk about the same things over and over again.

I think if we are all on the same page and all know what we have answers to and what we don't, some of the newer posters may be able to bring in new and fresh ideas.

 

[Fairy1]

I think we can. It really does sound like one of those "funny guy stories".

Oh yes - hilarious....:crazy:

 

[Fairy1]

Hopefully this comes across the right way.....

for those of you that are new to this thread, PLEASE take a look at the following link http://snurl.com/koecher and review the information posted. The author "Laytonian" has put a lot of work into a timeline which includes links to videos, receipts, newspaper articles, etc. If you do not want to review threads #1, #2, and #3, this would be a good place to get up to speed.

It seems now that we are on thread #4 we are gaining more interest in this case, however a lot of new people are asking questions that have been answered in the previous threads and we continue to talk about the same things over and over again.

I think if we are all on the same page and all know what we have answers to and what we don't, some of the newer posters may be able to bring in new and fresh ideas.

You helped too! :blowkiss:

 

[Fairy1]

fasteddy - if you're still here, I'd like to ask you a question. Would Anthem Parkway be considered the main thoroughfare through the Anthem community?

 

[fasteddy4]

The weather on the days that Steven might have been looking for work:

St. George, UT

Dec. 11, 2009: High: 32 Low: 21 Avg.: 26
Dec. 12, 2009: High: 35 Low: 28 Avg. 32

Las Vegas, NV

Dec. 12, 2009: High: 52 Low: 41 Avg.: 47
Dec. 13, 2009: High: 59 Low: 43 Avg.: 51

At the time, St. George was having unseasonably cold weather. All those averages for St. George are well below the norm. Las Vegas was actually a few degrees above the regular December temps. And I remember it as such. And you can tell from the videos that it looks to be a pretty nice day. I just don't see Steven looking for window cleaning work in 30 degree weather in St. George. Now. . .in Vegas. . .with those temps. . .I suppose. Still, the first time I see someone cleaning outside windows on their house in Vegas in December or January, it will be the first time.

 

[fasteddy4]

Fairy1, I would consider Anthem Parkway to definitely be the main street through Anthem/Sun City. Granted, from the satellite photos there are just a ton of streets down there but Anthem is what everything else branches off from. And it is just one big loop. And it starts, to put it in the most generalest of terms, where Eastern ends.