GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #4

[PaperDoll]

I've decided TM was in the car at the time of the shooting. I spent a lot of time last night reading the warrant. I posted above what I concluded about the crime scene where she was shot.

I don't think we can disregard major portions of the warrant due to one "got those kids" phrase. EN was admittedly paranoid and probably high as a kite.

I've always thought TM was in the car, but I go back and forth with that after reading others view saying they don't think she was. However, I'm still sticking with my original thought that she was in the car:crazy: She was the one who was shot and killed, and I believe that the Audi took another route to get to Mt. Shasta and it was just a fast as the route the Buick took. So, TM, IMO wouldn't have had enough time to run out and see what was going on, and EN told his friends that he starting shooting at the person running towards the house and then started shooting at the car where he knew he hit someone.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

EN was admittedly paranoid and probably high as a kite.

Paranoid yes, but the complaint makes a point of saying that EN's friend described him as 'coherent.' The DA needs EN to have been coherent to use his statements to his friends against him. I do think he had some drugs in his system at the time the events happened, but nothing points to him being severely intoxicated. If he was severely intoxicated at the time the events transpired, he could have been the third person in the Audi who merely witnessed what happened and hallucinated that he was the shooter (or at least have the defense assert that even if it isn't true). The Meyers claim that there was a minimum of three people in the car, so a drug trip false confession is available to the EN defense. The DA has to prove it was him who fired rather than someone else in the car taking the gun or that it was some other 45, which BM not IDing the shooter instantly can point to reasonable doubt that EN wasn't the shooter but merely a passenger who didn't take part in the events that night.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Oh, darn, you're basing that on the warrant. The warrant says he turned to his left and saw his mother lying on the ground bleeding from the head. Unfortunately, it doesn't say that he saw her on the ground next to the car.

No. I saw an article or heard a video previously. When I read the warrant last night while working on my spreadsheet, his statement made me go compare what he said in the warrant and what I read/heard about her being near the car to the map. If you plot the property map with her in the driveway on the driver's side of the car like the article/video said, all of Brandon's directional statements in the warrant match up.

If everyone doesn't think that's good enough, I won't waste my time on this today and I'll focus on my spreadsheet instead.

 

[kimi_SFC]

No. I saw an article or heard a video previously. When I read the warrant last night while working on my spreadsheet, his statement made me go compare what he said in the warrant and what I read/heard about her being near the car to the map. If you plot the property map with her in the driveway on the driver's side of the car like the article/video said, all of Brandon's statements in the warrant match up.

If everyone doesn't think that's good enough, I won't waste my time on this today and I'll focus on my spreadsheet instead.

All input is appreciated IMVHO :hug:

There has been tremendously valuable input, insight and input done on this thread over recent days that has allowed the reader to consider possibilities that may not have even been under consideration prior :moo:

That being said, every effort, whatever any WSer chooses to add, is of value. I truly appreciate all of it. Perhaps it isn't said enough, but all of you are amazing, for caring enough to work so hard on this case.

:sleuth: on :webeuther:

:heartluv:

:twocents:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Miss Muffet]

Yes, BM said he ran around to the driver's side and it appears the driver's side faced the house, but BM could have been the driver with TM sliding across.

I think that's very unlikely because she would be sliding across more towards the gunfire.

I really don't want to waste my time and argue about this today if everyone doesn't think it has merit. I feel confident that this will be what we learn at the trial, and that's good enough for me. I don't need to convince anyone of what I think. That's not my goal. I'm here to brainstorm and you guys sure helped me brainstorm!

 

[Miss Muffet]

Paranoid yes, but the complaint makes a point of saying that EN's friend described him as 'coherent.'

His being paranoid and high as a kite at the time of the shooting could severely impact his interpretation of what he saw, especially as everything is happening so quickly. Paranoia really messes with the mind. He was at his friend's house almost 4 hours later. Lapse of time and the adrenaline dump his body must have experienced could metabolize him to coherent. That wouldn't change what he thought he saw though.

Another thing to consider. Instead of being so willing to disregard significant portions of the warrant based on one person's "I got those kids" statement, why aren't we considering motives for why he would say it? Shouldn't we tear that sentence apart to hell and back just like we're tearing the entire warrant apart? Perhaps he knew he killed TM and he wanted people to believe he thought it was BM and that TM was an accident. You kill someone's mother and your peers are going to think you're the scum of the earth.

I think we should put that sentence under a microscope since we're basing the majority of our scenarios on it to disprove a TON of other stuff.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Having just read the warrant again, I think the biggest question is this: Why was it sooo important in the M's first version of events to not place BM in the car under any circumstances? Also, the warrant version really does make TM look very, very bad in the judgment dept. If warrant is true, she insisted to go hunting for a car that had left them alone. A car that supposedly the M's did not recognize. I still would like to know who had cell phones with them. Hard to believe neither KM nor TM was carrying one at that time of night, especially. Many points at which to call 911 if you are not involved in anything illegal. 911 first, then a call to BM at home alerting him to get ready, there may be trouble. I know if I had a frightening encounter close to home, that's what I would do. Call 911 and then my husband at home. And then wait for police to come.

I know these questions have been asked before, but after reading the warrant, this is my focus.

They are all good questions. Important questions! It is possible that TM had very poor judgment. Most of us have been avoiding that possibility for weeks. I have. But it doesn't make her death her fault. I'm starting to think it needs to be considered. Our quickly disregarding it has caused us to rewrite the entire warrant with many different scenarios.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Another thing to consider. Instead of being so willing to disregard significant portions of the warrant based on one person's "I got those kids" statement, why aren't we considering motives for why he would say it? Shouldn't we tear that sentence apart to hell and back just like we're tearing the entire warrant apart? Perhaps he knew he killed TM and he wanted people to believe he thought it was BM and that TM was an accident. You kill someone's mother and your peers are going to think you're the scum of the earth.
I think we should put that sentence under a microscope since we're basing the majority of our scenarios on it to disprove a TON of other stuff.

I agree in that everything can/should be challenged. If for instance EN was involved in a hired hit of TM at the behest of one or more of the Meyers, he's sowing the seeds of at max getting Manslaughter rather than Murder 1 and RM has done other things to aid his defense plus RM for some reason tried to go over to EN without even telling LE that EN was a suspect. I consider this a weak theory, but it does challenge EN's alleged statement and explain some of the unusual actions of the Meyers.

 

[sonjay]

No. I saw an article or heard a video previously. When I read the warrant last night while working on my spreadsheet, his statement made me go compare what he said in the warrant and what I read/heard about her being near the car to the map. If you plot the property map with her in the driveway on the driver's side of the car like the article/video said, all of Brandon's directional statements in the warrant match up.

If everyone doesn't think that's good enough, I won't waste my time on this today and I'll focus on my spreadsheet instead.

No, it's not wasting your time! If you've got a source that says that TM was found next to the car -- hopefully a credible source -- that would be very valuable information to have. Especially if it reveals that TM was found next to or near the driver's door. Please please please find that source and share it with us!

It's been making me crazy that we have so little detail about the crime scene. We don't know exactly where the Buick was or which direction it was facing. We don't know exactly were TM was found. We don't know exactly where BM was. We don't know where along Mt. Shasta the silver car was when the shooting started -- one or two houses in from Carmel Peak? All the way into the cul de sac, 5 feet from the Buick? Somewhere in between? We don't know where the .45 shell casings were found, or the 9mm casings.

I too am now leaning toward TM being in the car.

EN told his friends that he shot at someone running toward the house, and at someone at the car, and that he hit the person at the car. TM was the person who was hit, so logically, she was the person at the car. We've all been so sure that she wasn't in the car, we've overlooked or dismissed that little tidbit from EN.

If we have confirmation from somewhere that TM was found next to the car, then that would pretty well nail it that TM was in fact in the car for that chase.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I've always thought TM was in the car, but I go back and forth with that after reading others view saying they don't think she was. However, I'm still sticking with my original thought that she was in the car:crazy: She was the one who was shot and killed, and I believe that the Audi took another route to get to Mt. Shasta and it was just a fast as the route the Buick took. So, TM, IMO wouldn't have had enough time to run out and see what was going on, and EN told his friends that he starting shooting at the person running towards the house and then started shooting at the car where he knew he hit someone.

I know you've always thought it. You might have been right all along.

Question for you. Did you go down the street to the house or just look down the street from the intersection? I'm wondering about the west side of the house that is next to that huge concrete block wall that divides that street from the street behind it. It seems many of the Vegas housing developments have this type of wall. Is there commonly a walkway between the houses and the walls? There would have to be to do maintenance on the houses. Did you happen to notice if it can be accessed from the front of the house? Or if there is a gate or a fence there?

All input is appreciated IMVHO :hug:

There has been tremendously valuable input, insight and input done on this thread over recent days that has allowed the reader to consider possibilities that may not have even been under consideration prior :moo:

That being said, every effort, whatever any WSer chooses to add, is of value. I truly appreciate all of it. Perhaps it isn't said enough, but all of you are amazing, for caring enough to work so hard on this case.

I agree. Everyone here is amazing. Many things have been brought up I would have never imagined!

 

[Miss Muffet]

No, it's not wasting your time! If you've got a source that says that TM was found next to the car -- hopefully a credible source -- that would be very valuable information to have. Especially if it reveals that TM was found next to or near the driver's door. Please please please find that source and share it with us!

Okay! I'll look for it! I was planning to do the diagram and everything, which is time consuming. I'll find the article today. Afterwards, we can work on a diagram afterwards.

 

[sonjay]

His being paranoid and high as a kite at the time of the shooting could severely impact his interpretation of what he saw, especially as everything is happening so quickly. Paranoia really messes with the mind. He was at his friend's house almost 4 hours later. Lapse of time and the adrenaline dump his body must have experienced could metabolize him to coherent. That wouldn't change what he thought he saw though.

Another thing to consider. Instead of being so willing to disregard significant portions of the warrant based on one person's "I got those kids" statement, why aren't we considering motives for why he would say it? Shouldn't we tear that sentence apart to hell and back just like we're tearing the entire warrant apart? Perhaps he knew he killed TM and he wanted people to believe he thought it was BM and that TM was an accident. You kill someone's mother and your peers are going to think you're the scum of the earth.

I think we should put that sentence under a microscope since we're basing the majority of our scenarios on it to disprove a TON of other stuff.

I think you're right. I think we can't just assume that EN was both correct and truthful when he said "got those kids."

Personally, I think it's more likely that he mistakenly thought it was the kids in the Buick. In the context of what he told his friends that night, I have trouble picturing him cleverly scheming to mislead his friends into believing that he thought he shot one of the kids.

There's an article somewhere (I'll look for it if anyone needs a link) that quotes a neighbor saying that EN seemed genuinely upset to learn the next day that TM was dead.

I'm thinking now that EN believed it was the kids in the Buick, that he really did think he "got those kids," and that he actually was upset the next day when he learned that TM was dead. I'm not dead-set on that interpretation, but that's how I'm leaning at the moment.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Yikes. This is going to take a while. I didn't realize when I read/heard it that it was earthshattering news. I hadn't ever focused on the second shooting scene since the majority of the controversy surrounded prior events. Give me time.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Melissa Mour, who lives next door to Nowsch, told the Associated Press she talked with him about the gunfire and screeching tires the day after.

"He was like, `Whoever did this is going to pay for it. I've know that family a long time,'" Mour said. "The way he spoke that day, it was like he liked them. It was like he was upset at whoever did it."

She also told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that he often walked around the neighborhood with a gun.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/20/vegas-road-rage-killing-suspect/23769607/

 

[sonjay]

Having just read the warrant again, I think the biggest question is this: Why was it sooo important in the M's first version of events to not place BM in the car under any circumstances? Also, the warrant version really does make TM look very, very bad in the judgment dept. If warrant is true, she insisted to go hunting for a car that had left them alone. A car that supposedly the M's did not recognize. I still would like to know who had cell phones with them. Hard to believe neither KM nor TM was carrying one at that time of night, especially. Many points at which to call 911 if you are not involved in anything illegal. 911 first, then a call to BM at home alerting him to get ready, there may be trouble. I know if I had a frightening encounter close to home, that's what I would do. Call 911 and then my husband at home. And then wait for police to come.

I know these questions have been asked before, but after reading the warrant, this is my focus.

Yes to all of that, especially the BBM parts.

Deciding that TM was in the car for the chase, if that's true, is only one small part of this whole thing.

We still have the original story in which they hid the fact that BM was in the car.

We still have TM making a very very bad decision that night -- if it's true that she went home to drop off KM and get BM and his gun, which I still don't believe.

And we still have a car chase or multiple car chases, and reportedly a road rage and spin-outs and near-collisions and so forth -- and nobody, but nobody, ever pulled out their phone and dialed 911?

And we still have a sketch that looks nothing like EN and police have said there's no reason to look for the person in the sketch.

We still have so many unknowns, and so many things that just don't make sense.

 

[Miss Muffet]

There's an article somewhere (I'll look for it if anyone needs a link) that quotes a neighbor saying that EN seemed genuinely upset to learn the next day that TM was dead.

I remember a friend said that a few days afterwards he was crying and said, "I think I shot somebody's mother."

I can't find a link and I need to focus on finding the TM near car link instead.

 

[sonjay]

I've always thought TM was in the car, but I go back and forth with that after reading others view saying they don't think she was. However, I'm still sticking with my original thought that she was in the car:crazy: She was the one who was shot and killed, and I believe that the Audi took another route to get to Mt. Shasta and it was just a fast as the route the Buick took. So, TM, IMO wouldn't have had enough time to run out and see what was going on, and EN told his friends that he starting shooting at the person running towards the house and then started shooting at the car where he knew he hit someone.

I'm also starting to think you were right all along about that.

I'm not totally convinced yet, but I'm getting there.

 

[sonjay]

I remember a friend said that a few days afterwards he was crying and said, "I think I shot somebody's mother."

I can't find a link and I need to focus on finding the TM near car link instead.

Wow. That would also be very compelling. That goes beyond the neighbor who said he was upset at hearing that TM was dead.

<searching Google>
Okay, I found the "shot somebody's mother" one:

Jonathan, friend of Eric Nowsch - "He pulled me off to the side because I was with all my friends and then he started crying. He says I think we killed somebody's mom."

http://www.kmvt.com/news/latest/Las-Vegas-Road-Rage-Suspect-Friends-Speak-293486531.html
​

Based on these statements from EN's neighbor and friend, I'm going with the idea that he didn't know he had shot TM. He really thought he was in a chase and a shootout with "those kids."

Which means that "got those kids; they were after me and I got them" only means that EN thought the people in the Buick were those kids. It doesn't mean that TM wasn't in the car, only that TM didn't know she was in the car.

 

[sonjay]

Melissa Mour, who lives next door to Nowsch, told the Associated Press she talked with him about the gunfire and screeching tires the day after.

"He was like, `Whoever did this is going to pay for it. I've know that family a long time,'" Mour said. "The way he spoke that day, it was like he liked them. It was like he was upset at whoever did it."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/20/vegas-road-rage-killing-suspect/23769607/

Thank you, Spanish!

 

[Miss Muffet]

...EN told his friends that he starting shooting at the person running towards the house and then started shooting at the car where he knew he hit someone.

In my search for the news article, this line in Paperdoll's quote makes me wonder if I drew a conclusion when reading an article mentioning EN's statement. Don't worry, I'll keep looking for the article, but in the meantime, what if this is what I remembered reading? Isn't there value in EN's and BM's statements matching in this regard?

We all assumed TM was the one running towards the house. BM's statement says he was the one who went towards the house. EN says he shot at someone near the car and the house. If EN is shooting at someone near the car and someone running towards the house, and BM says he was moving towards the house, that means TM was the person near the car.

I'm sure BM gave this information about the shooting scene shortly after police arrived at the scene. EN told his friends less than 4 hours later. There would be no time for them to coordinate statements. BM couldn't have known that's what EN would say.