GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #4

[sonjay]

The thing is, if you read the warrant there are two different versions: the EN story and the M story. The EN story seems to be one extended incident. The chase seems to be continuous without the pit stop at home to get the son and the gun. KM claims she thought she saw the Audi on a road east of the cul de sac. There would have been plenty of time to run inside, IMO, because KM, according to her, did just that. She had time to get BM out of bed, dressed, get the gun from granny's drawer and then BM goes out to the Buick and wastes more time arguing with TM about calling 911, her saying I'll go without you, a whole discussion is taking place. This all according to the M's. This would be taking precious time to get indoors, load your gun and call the police. Where was EN at this time? He knows where they live. I'm pretty sure he recognized the Buick. Also, the warrant never specifically addresses whether or not KM got back into the car with TM and BM. Additionally, the EN version does not mention road rage of any type. In both narratives to friends, he describes the encounter with the Buick as beginning at the school parking lot. In one account, EN mentions an "exchange" with the Buick at the school and in another account, EN specifically says that is where the Buick brandished the gun. If there had been road rage involved, I don't think there would be any reason for EN to leave that out. He consistently says trouble started at the school. I also still think that all 3 M's may have been in the car. TM near the car and KM running toward the house. I think maybe that is why she is quoted as saying "it could have been me". BM perhaps standing his ground and firing the gun. Perhaps things happened so fast that EN didn't realize there were 3 people in the car. Not saying that was definitely the case, but I think it's possible.

I agree with your reasoning.

Perhaps all 3 M's were in the car. That would explain how KM, in her version of the road rage, described such a similar route for the road rage story as BM's route in his story. Miss Muffet pointed out, way upthread, that it would have been difficult for them to come up with such a similar route on the spur of the moment. If all 3 were in the car, that would explain how they both described such similar routes for what they claimed were two entirely separate trips.

Well, heavens. Let's assume for the moment that all 3 were in the car. What would cause TM, BM & KM to get into such a chase and shootout with a person they all knew, and who lived just a few houses away?

If EN was, in fact, genuinely upset to learn that he had killed TM, then it would seem that there wasn't some prior conflict between them, at least not a conflict sufficiently ugly to result in car chases and shootings.

Where does this leave us?

 

[BellaVita]

As far as I know, there's not a shred of evidence in support of any of that.

Personally, I think that entire trip was dreamed up to hide the fact that BM was in the car with his gun during the chase.

What say you all? Who believes there was a driving lesson and a road rage?

I think you're on the right track. No driving lesson. No road rage. IMO.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

What say you all? Who believes there was a driving lesson and a road rage?

I don't have a specific set of events in mind other than to believe that BM was engaging in one or more felonies at the time this was happening. Also with EN I think his alleged comments about 'somebody's mother' he might have thought that a stray bullet went into house rather than him intentionally emptying a clip at her, but instead whoever he was shooting at was 'kids' (KM/MM/BM/etc). I'm curious where all the bullets went since with EN as the sole 45 shooter, he fired no less than 28 rounds between the two locations (6 shots at the first shooting per the crime scene and 22 shots at the second per his comments). Per the complaint the police have only recovered one bullet from both locations.

 

[Miss Muffet]

The thing is, if you read the warrant there are two different versions: the EN story and the M story. The EN story seems to be one extended incident. The chase seems to be continuous without the pit stop at home to get the son and the gun. KM claims she thought she saw the Audi on a road east of the cul de sac. There would have been plenty of time to run inside, IMO, because KM, according to her, did just that. She had time to get BM out of bed, dressed, get the gun from granny's drawer and then BM goes out to the Buick and wastes more time arguing with TM about calling 911, her saying I'll go without you, a whole discussion is taking place. This all according to the M's. This would be taking precious time to get indoors, load your gun and call the police. Where was EN at this time? He knows where they live. I'm pretty sure he recognized the Buick. Also, the warrant never specifically addresses whether or not KM got back into the car with TM and BM. Additionally, the EN version does not mention road rage of any type. In both narratives to friends, he describes the encounter with the Buick as beginning at the school parking lot. In one account, EN mentions an "exchange" with the Buick at the school and in another account, EN specifically says that is where the Buick brandished the gun. If there had been road rage involved, I don't think there would be any reason for EN to leave that out. He consistently says trouble started at the school. I also still think that all 3 M's may have been in the car. TM near the car and KM running toward the house. I think maybe that is why she is quoted as saying "it could have been me". BM perhaps standing his ground and firing the gun. Perhaps things happened so fast that EN didn't realize there were 3 people in the car. Not saying that was definitely the case, but I think it's possible.

Damn you for posting all of these intriguing thoughts when I have a pile of laundry!

There's lots of things in your posts we need to figure out how they jive together.

What say you all? Who believes there was a driving lesson and a road rage?

At this point, I don't want to quickly rule anything out. Most of us spent two weeks believing TM wasn't in the car simply because we couldn't fathom a mother doing such a thing.

I'm going to take time tonight to independently review and analyze the warrant in depth after my family goes to sleep. That proved to be productive last night. Maybe tonight will be to!

 

[Miss Muffet]

Where was MM's birthday party? Do we know for a fact it was at the M's house?

If it was elsewhere, perhaps TM, BM and KM were on their way home from the party.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm curious where all the bullets went since with EN as the sole 45 shooter, he fired no less than 28 rounds between the two locations (6 shots at the first shooting per the crime scene and 22 shots at the second per his comments). Per the complaint the police have only recovered one bullet from both locations.

With all those shots, it's hard to believe EN had the only 45, isn't it? If LE only has one or two bullets plus the one in TM's head, that's a serious problem IMO. As a jurist, I'd want proof the bullet in TM's head came from EN's 45. If LE hasn't recovered EN's 45 to match the bullet, the only other way to prove it is to prove all 45 bullets fired came from the same 45 weapon.

 

[sonjay]

I'm curious where all the bullets went since with EN as the sole 45 shooter, he fired no less than 28 rounds between the two locations (6 shots at the first shooting per the crime scene and 22 shots at the second per his comments). Per the complaint the police have only recovered one bullet from both locations.

With all those shots, it's hard to believe EN had the only 45, isn't it? If LE only has one or two bullets plus the one in TM's head, that's a serious problem IMO. As a jurist, I'd want proof the bullet in TM's head came from EN's 45. If LE hasn't recovered EN's 45 to match the bullet, the only other way to prove it is to prove all 45 bullets fired came from the same 45 weapon.

According to the arrest affidavit, police recovered a total of 13 .45 shell casings -- 6 at shooting scene #1, and 7 at shooting scene #2. And they recovered 1 .45 bullet at shooting scene 2, which tested positive for human blood. (I'm ignoring for the moment the 9mm casings they found, since we're talking about the .45's)

EN told Krisztian he fired 22 rounds in the cul de sac, and there's no mention of him specifying how many rounds he shot at shooting scene 1. Altergott apparently didn't mention any number of rounds in his statement to police.

Either EN was wrong about how many times he fired, OR police haven't recovered all the shell casings. Either is possible, IMO. I have no idea how thorough the police were in looking for the casings. I have no idea if they used a metal detector or just their eyes. I have no idea if there are any storm drains in either area that the casings could have rolled or bounced into. And, of course, there's the possibility that they've recovered more casings since the 19th when the affidavit was written up.

Bottom line: we don't know how many rounds EN fired.

I'm certain the police have compared, or will compare, the recovered bullet against a control bullet fired from EN's gun to verify that the human blood bullet-covered bullet was fired from his gun. Assuming that they've got his gun, which I guess we can't be sure of.

 

[PaperDoll]

I know you've always thought it. You might have been right all along.

Question for you. Did you go down the street to the house or just look down the street from the intersection? I'm wondering about the west side of the house that is next to that huge concrete block wall that divides that street from the street behind it. It seems many of the Vegas housing developments have this type of wall. Is there commonly a walkway between the houses and the walls? There would have to be to do maintenance on the houses. Did you happen to notice if it can be accessed from the front of the house? Or if there is a gate or a fence there?


I agree. Everyone here is amazing. Many things have been brought up I would have never imagined!

BBM: I'm ALWAYS RIGHT.. ooops, you're not my husband :tantrum: lol.. Ok, I only drove past their street (Mt. Shasta) and I didn't notice any gate or walkway but I really wasn't looking for one. There are gates/walkways in some neighborhoods, like mine, that lead to main streets. Their neighborhood is a nice neighborhood, but the surrounding areas, like across Ducharme where the Audi was parked, is a older looking neighborhood. Seems like the newer communities have the concrete walls dividing the track from the main streets.

 

[Miss Muffet]

KM claims she thought she saw the Audi on a road east of the cul de sac. There would have been plenty of time to run inside, IMO, because KM, according to her, did just that. She had time to get BM out of bed, dressed, get the gun from granny's drawer and then BM goes out to the Buick and wastes more time arguing with TM about calling 911, her saying I'll go without you, a whole discussion is taking place. This all according to the M's. This would be taking precious time to get indoors, load your gun and call the police.

Isn't this similar wording to what BM said when he and TM arrived back at the house for the gunfire? KM and BM are describing almost explaining the same event for two different time periods.

I also still think that all 3 M's may have been in the car. TM near the car and KM running toward the house. I think maybe that is why she is quoted as saying "it could have been me". BM perhaps standing his ground and firing the gun. Perhaps things happened so fast that EN didn't realize there were 3 people in the car. Not saying that was definitely the case, but I think it's possible.

Perhaps all 3 M's were in the car. That would explain how KM, in her version of the road rage, described such a similar route for the road rage story as BM's route in his story. Miss Muffet pointed out, way upthread, that it would have been difficult for them to come up with such a similar route on the spur of the moment. If all 3 were in the car, that would explain how they both described such similar routes for what they claimed were two entirely separate trips.

OMG! This Sonja and Bella discussion gave me a lightening bolt of an idea!

I've never been able to completely embrace KM wasn't in the car and the road rage didn't happen. The reasons people gave for their not believing it just weren't good enough for me. I don't believe they lied about a driving lesson because they didn't want to admit RM had a gun. Not that I believed there was a driving lesson. I just didn't think that was a good reason to create a driving lesson lie.

Here's my lightening bolt idea with the assumption that the first story of BM coming shooting out of the house is the story they told LE the night of the shooting and the subsequent story wasn't told until after LE returned to question them about the first shooting scene.

My new hypothetical scenario (below) means KM is the biggest liar of them all!

TM and KM are out doing driving lessons. There's a road rage altercation with the Audi. Only TM and KM were in the car for EVERYTHING that happened in the warrant up to the shooting at the cul-de-sac.

They sped home. Maybe they called BM. Maybe he heard them yelling. BM comes running outside and starts shooting. Simultaneously, TM is trying to get KM out of the driver's seat to safety because KM is sitting there wailing over the traumatic event. TM sees the Audi coming, and pushes KM back into the car. That's why TM is found shot on the ground near the driver's side of the car.

LE shows up. KM tells her story leaving out the first shooting scene because she brandished a firearm after the road rage incident. Maybe TM did the brandishing. Maybe it was more than brandished and a shot was fired. Somehow either TM or KM had a gun at the first shooting scene. And it was true road rage, but they were equally enraged. KM leaving that out is why her statement just says driving lesson, road rage, home, mom dead.

BM tells his story as he knew it. He came outside and started shooting. He has no idea what happened while TM and KM were out in the car because he wasn't there. He doesn't even suspect there's anything to hide.

Long after LE is gone and the family is together, KM tells what really happened. BM learns about the details of the first driving route from her sharing her story over and over again with the family. (That's why his route is similar in his revised story.) The M's realize LE will find out about the first shooting scene. They decide to protect KM if that happens.

LE finds out about the first shooting scene via EN's friend witnesses. LE finds evidence at the scene. LE shows up at the M's house asking why this wasn't mentioned. The M's are prepared. KM says they came home and got BM and he left with TM. BM tells his new story with the details KM told him, which were the details she told LE, but he includes what she left out about the first shooting scene.

I know that's a freaky scenario but it fits all of the evidence, doesn't it?

 

[sonjay]

At this point, I don't want to quickly rule anything out. Most of us spent two weeks believing TM wasn't in the car simply because we couldn't fathom a mother doing such a thing.

True.

I still don't believe the driving lesson story, though. It wasn't all that believable back when it was the only story out there, and IMO it's even less believable now.

In the first couple pages of thread one on this case, when the driving lesson/road rage story was still the one and only story, many people here were already saying that their "hinky meter" was going off. The driving lesson/road rage story was never particularly believable.

And even back then, when it was the only story, that story was constantly changing. There was a collision. No, someone got mad because they were driving the speed limit. No, someone sideswiped them. At first no mention of KM honking the horn -- that appeared a couple of days later. Then, later on, the bike lane, the spin-out and the threats to "come back and get you and your daughter."

At first, they got home and the car followed them and BM came out with guns blazing. Then later they added the detail that they called BM to alert him of the danger. (So they had a cell phone, but they didn't call 911? Really? Why not?)

People were questioning the driving lessons. People were questioning why they led the silver car home instead of driving to a police station. People were questioning why they didn't call 911. People were questioning how they could report that the road rager had hazel eyes, but they didn't get a tag number or even the make or model of the vehicle.

Even when the driving lesson story was the only story, it was too unbelievable to be true, and it kept changing every day.

I for one don't believe the driving lesson story at all, not even a smidgen.

 

[PaperDoll]

I'm also starting to think you were right all along about that.

I'm not totally convinced yet, but I'm getting there.

When I think about it, and I actually did drive the route where the Audi stopped and started shooting the 1st time, and when the Buick backed up and went home, the timing between the two routes are just about equal so there really wasn't much time for anyone in the Buick to get in the house. So if KM was the one in the car, like some people think, she would have had to really run for the door to the house, and TM wouldn't have had much time to get out of the house to find out what is going on. I'm having a hard time believing that KM ran in the house, told her mom someone shot at them, then have her run out to greet BM???? Why would she do that? Why go out when you hear gun shots??? Something doesn't sound right to me about that scenario

 

[Miss Muffet]

BBM: I'm ALWAYS RIGHT.. ooops, you're not my husband :tantrum: lol..

You're so funny!

Ok, I only drove past their street (Mt. Shasta) and I didn't notice any gate or walkway but I really wasn't looking for one. There are gates/walkways in some neighborhoods, like mine, that lead to main streets. Their neighborhood is a nice neighborhood, but the surrounding areas, like across Ducharme where the Audi was parked, is a older looking neighborhood. Seems like the newer communities have the concrete walls dividing the track from the main streets.

For houses that are next to these concrete walls, do people usually have gates to prevent people from walking in that small area between their house and the concrete walls? It looks like that's where the air conditioning unit is located and there's no room to even walk around it even if there wasn't a gate.. It just seems like the M's driveway was a compete dead end and there was nowhere to run.

 

[sonjay]

Isn't this similar wording to what BM said when he and TM arrived back at the house for the gunfire? KM and BM are describing almost explaining the same event for two different time periods.




OMG! This Sonja and Bella discussion gave me a lightening bolt of an idea!

I've never been able to completely embrace KM wasn't in the car and the road rage didn't happen. The reasons people gave for their not believing it just weren't good enough for me. I don't believe they lied about a driving lesson because they didn't want to admit RM had a gun. Not that I believed there was a driving lesson. I just didn't think that was a good reason to create a driving lesson lie.

Here's my lightening bolt idea with the assumption that the first story of BM coming shooting out of the house is the story they told LE the night of the shooting and the subsequent story wasn't told until after LE returned to question them about the first shooting scene.

My new hypothetical scenario (below) means KM is the biggest liar of them all!

TM and KM are out doing driving lessons. There's a road rage altercation with the Audi. Only TM and KM were in the car for EVERYTHING that happened in the warrant up to the shooting at the cul-de-sac.

They sped home. Maybe they called BM. Maybe he heard them yelling. BM comes running outside and starts shooting. Simultaneously, TM is trying to get KM out of the driver's seat to safety because KM is sitting there wailing over the traumatic event. She sees the Audi coming, pushes KM back into the car. She's shot standing next to the driver's side of the car.

LE shows up. KM tells her story leaving out the first shooting scene because she brandished a firearm after the road rage incident. Maybe TM did the brandishing. Maybe it was more than brandished and a shot was fired. Somehow either TM or KM had a gun at the first shooting scene. And it was true road rage, but they were the enraged. That's why KM just says driving lesson, road rage, home, mom dead.

BM tells his story as he knew it. He came outside and started shooting. He has no idea what happened while TM and KM were out in the car because he wasn't there. He doesn't even suspect there's anything to hide.

Long after LE is gone and the family is together, KM tells what really happened. BM learns about the details of the first driving route from her sharing her story over and over again with the family. (That's why his route is similar in his revised story.) The M's realize LE will find out about the first shooting scene. They decide to protect KM if that happens.

LE finds out about the first shooting scene via EN's friend witnesses. LE finds evidence at the scene. LE shows up at the M's house asking why this wasn't mentioned. The M's are prepared. KM says they came home and got BM and he left with TM. BM tells his new story with the details KM told him, which were the details she told LE, but he includes what she left out about the first shooting scene.

I know that's a freaky scenario but it fits all of the evidence, doesn't it?

Who was the person that EN said was running toward the house? We've already pretty much agreed that BM was moving southeast from the car in the direction of the house. But if he was running out from the house, that's not possible. He couldn't have known that his description of moving toward the house would correspond so closely with EN's report of seeing someone running toward the house.

Why did TM or KM have a firearm with them? BM strikes me as much more likely to have a firearm with him.

Was there really a 6' spiky-haired male who got out of the car and threatened to "come back for you and your daughter"?

Why would KM & TM be having driving lessons at 11 o'clock at night right across from the park where drug dealers are known to hang out?

Why didn't they call 911 once the silver car started chasing them? Either before or after calling BM?

Was EN lying about thinking "those kids" were after him, and about calling the Audi driver? How does that whole bit fit into this?

Did they not know it was EN?

When the silver car followed them into their cul de sac, did EN not know it was them? How would that even be possible?

Yeah, pretty freaky scenario. I have trouble with it.

How about this one?

TM and BM have some sort of beef with EN. They take BM's gun and go to the park/school to look for him. Maybe KM was in the car, maybe she wasn't. EN sees them, calls the Audi driver. Words are exchanged, the gun brandished. The chase is on. And it happened exactly as BM and EN described it.

They make up the whole driving lesson/road rage story in order to protect BM, who had set out with his gun intending to do harm to EN that night and instead ended up getting his mother killed.

When they realize it's going to come out that BM was in the car, they modify their story, adding the whole second part in order to put BM in the car.

Does it fit the evidence? The known facts?

 

[PaperDoll]

You're so funny!


For houses that are next to these concrete walls, do people usually have gates to prevent people from walking in that small area between their house and the concrete walls? It looks like that's where the air conditioning unit is located and there's no room to even walk around it even if there wasn't a gate.. It just seems like the M's driveway was a compete dead end and there was nowhere to run.

I don't think there is a gate on that street. Most of the gates that lead to other areas, are bigger with wider walkways. There could be one of course, but doesn't look like it. Again, that cul-de-sac is small and the houses do look close together, a lot of homes here don't have much yard. So my thinking is the only way out of their cul-de-sac is the way you drive in. The neighborhood I live in has 3 gates/walkways that lead to main streets and they are pretty wide.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Who was the person that EN said was running toward the house? We've already pretty much agreed that BM was moving southeast from the car in the direction of the house. But if he was running out from the house, that's not possible. He couldn't have known that his description of moving toward the house would correspond so closely with EN's report of seeing someone running toward the house.

Don't be so literal reading it. I just gave bare bones. We can fill in the meat.

BM comes out of the house. He's already out of the house when the Audi arrives. At some point during gunfire, he starts running towards the house. We can't take EN's statements too literally because he doesn't even say he saw someone shooting back, and we know BM shot back because there are bullets.

Why did TM or KM have a firearm with them? BM strikes me as much more likely to have a firearm with him.

It's a firearm, gun rights family. TM is into cars. Why isn't she into firearms too? My sister carries a firearm.

Was there really a 6' spiky-haired male who got out of the car and threatened to "come back for you and your daughter"?

That's the road rage incident. The Audi driver. As I said, TM and KM were present and in the car for everything in the warrant.

Why would KM & TM be having driving lessons at 11 o'clock at night right across from the park where drug dealers are known to hang out?

Why wouldn't they? They were at the school, not the park. Look at the park. It's not like the drug dealers are sitting at the edge of it. They'd be deep back inside it. I don't think the residents of the neighborhood consider the school parking lot a dangerous area. A driving lesson that late isn't strange. It wasn't a school night. I've taken my son to practice at 2am because there are no cars in the parking lots then.

Why didn't they call 911 once the silver car started chasing them? Either before or after calling BM?

Because they were enraged like people get enraged during a road rage.

Was EN lying about thinking "those kids" were after him, and about calling the Audi driver? How does that whole bit fit into this?

There was plenty of time for the Audi to get there if EN called at after seeing them the first time circling around the parking lot at the school. Look at the warrant. They arrived at the school at 22:10 the first time and they arrived again at 22:50. There's even time for the Audi to encounter the Buick on the way to picking up EN and making that threat.

We've discussed "those kids" already. In this scenario, it makes sense that he only saw KM and didn't realize it was TM with her.

Did they not know it was EN?

I don't think he did.

When the silver car followed them into their cul de sac, did EN not know it was them? How would that even be possible?

It is possible. I sure as hell don't know how I got all the way down the hallway and into a classroom three classrooms away when I got into a fight when I was in middle school. His shooting off all those rounds indicates serious adrenaline pumping through his body. Alternately, he could have known it was the M's but not Tammy. We've already discussed this today.

Yeah, pretty freaky scenario. I have trouble with it.

I'm not surprised.

How about this one?

TM and BM have some sort of beef with EN. They take BM's gun and go to the park/school to look for him. Maybe KM was in the car, maybe she wasn't. EN sees them, calls the Audi driver. Words are exchanged, the gun brandished. The chase is on. And it happened exactly as BM and EN described it.

They make up the whole driving lesson/road rage story in order to protect BM, who had set out with his gun intending to do harm to EN that night and instead ended up getting his mother killed.

When they realize it's going to come out that BM was in the car, they modify their story, adding the whole second part in order to put BM in the car.

There's too much conniving to collaborate on a complicated lie before LE arrives. You know darn well ambulance and police were on the scene in minutes. And this is too much like your original theory. You said you'd start fresh! LOL

Does it fit the evidence? The known facts?

I'm going to leave that for you to figure out because you're our evidence and known facts guru.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I don't think there is a gate on that street. Most of the gates that lead to other areas, are bigger with wider walkways. There could be one of course, but doesn't look like it. Again, that cul-de-sac is small and the houses do look close together, a lot of homes here don't have much yard. So my thinking is the only way out of their cul-de-sac is the way you drive in. The neighborhood I live in has 3 gates/walkways that lead to main streets and they are pretty wide.

Why does Vegas have concrete walls dividing streets all over the place? It seems like living in prison. What purpose do they have? Why prevent people from freely walking from one area to the next? The concrete wall next to the Meyer's house divides two cul-de-sac circles. That means kids who live on one street can't easily play with kids on the other street. Heck, they might not even know each other exists. I'm just going on a rant here. It seems strange to me.

 

[sonjay]

And this is too much like your original theory. You said you'd start fresh! LOL

I did. And this is what I came up with. Frankly, I never believed the driving lesson story from day 1. It was always hinky, and ever-changing, and it never made sense.

As Judge Judy says, when a story doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.

Take away the driving lesson story, and what are you left with? The second half of the Meyers' story, which just happens to correlate nearly perfectly with EN's story.

This is Occam's razor at its finest.

I'm going to leave that for you to figure out because you're our evidence and known facts guru.

I'm not surprised. :loser:

Anyone else have any insight?

 

[PaperDoll]

What I found interesting about his use of "we" is that when he thought he "got those kids," he used "I." He willingly owned it.

When it turned out he shot TM, he suddenly doesn't want to own it anymore. He wants to share the blame with the Audi driver. "We" means (in EN's mind, anyway) that he doesn't bear 100% of the responsibility for killing TM.

I believe that he really did feel bad that he killed TM. That means there wasn't bad blood between them. So why was she out chasing him with her armed son? Is it possible she really didn't know it was him?

I have a feeling she didn't know who was in the car the 1st time around. I'm repeating myself here, EN didn't own a car and had other people pick him up, plus if the windows of the Audi were tinted, it would be hard to see who was in the car and it was at night. If EN was the one who did the shooting the 1st round, and depending on the distance between the 2 cars, it would be hard to see the person so maybe she really didn't know. Also, I would think EN would know who the Buick belonged to but maybe didn't realize TM was in the car. Doesn't TM and her daughter both have the same color hair? Maybe they look similar so EN may have been surprised he actually killed TM. I WANT SOME DOC RELEASES... UGH! LOL

 

[PaperDoll]

Why does Vegas have concrete walls dividing streets all over the place? It seems like living in prison. What purpose do they have? Why prevent people from freely walking from one area to the next? The concrete wall next to the Meyer's house divides two cul-de-sac circles. That means kids who live on one street can't easily play with kids on the other street. Heck, they might not even know each other exists. I'm just going on a rant here. It seems strange to me.

LOL, I don't know why. Hubby and I moved here from Southern CA a little over 3 years ago. I prefer CA anytime over Vegas but Vegas has no state income tax and that is why we left CA. There are nice communities here in Vegas, it's not all about the Strip. Our neighborhood has high walls so you can't see into your neighbors back yard that is behind you. I can see my one next door neighbors back yard if I'm on my balcony upstairs. I'm not crazy about our backyard because the walls are high and feels like a "prison". Kind of strange but that is the way some houses are built.. :crazy:

 

[Miss Muffet]

I did. And this is what I came up with. Frankly, I never believed the driving lesson story from day 1. It was always hinky, and ever-changing, and it never made sense.

I completely jumped the ship on my previous theories here.

Take away the driving lesson story, and what are you left with? The second half of the Meyers' story, which just happens to correlate nearly perfectly with EN's story.

That's because EN wasn't present for the first part of their story. And EN's story isn't the Audi driver's story. If the Audi driver encountered the M's on the way to picking up EN, that wouldn't be part of EN's story because he wasn't with the Audi driver at the time. There's 40 minutes between the M's two appearances at the school.

EN's story: EN saw the buick, called a friend, **** happened.

If you consider EN's story one event, you're not taking into consideration that EN had to wait for his friend to arrive. It reads like one event when he's telling it because it's one event to him. He sat around waiting for the Audi driver.

Stuff happened throughout the entire world while EN sat in that park killing time waiting for the Audi driver. He wouldn't know what happened elsewhere in the neighborhood any more than he'd know what was happening in Iraq while he was sitting there.