GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #4

[SpanishInquisition]

You can get to Carmel Peak from Alta; so the Audi would have turned right on Alta, then right on Carmel Peak then made a left on Mt. Shasta. The Audi would have been going north on Carmel Peak.

We know however that it wasn't as the CCTV footage shows the silver car turning onto Carmel Peak from Cherry River and going south at 11:22, unless the CCTV footage is an hour off and that footage was captured at 10:22, which itself presents problems.

 

[sonjay]

We know however that it wasn't as the CCTV footage shows the silver car turning onto Carmel Peak from Cherry River and going south at 11:22, unless the CCTV footage is an hour off and that footage was captured at 10:22, which itself presents problems.

Or maybe it was off by and hour and that footage was captured at 12:22am on the 13th. Maybe the silver car (or some silver car) went driving past the house on Cherry River at 12:22 am. Is that possible?

If the timestamp is off by an hour because it's set to daylight saving time, then the real time would have been 12:22, I think. Or do I have that backward?

ETA: No, I think I have it backward. If it's off by an hour due to not having been reset to standard time, I think it would have read 11:22 when it was really 10:22.

 

[sonjay]

We know however that it wasn't as the CCTV footage shows the silver car turning onto Carmel Peak from Cherry River and going south at 11:22, unless the CCTV footage is an hour off and that footage was captured at 10:22, which itself presents problems.

If we're correct and that footage is from a camera over on Cherry River, how do the police know that it shows the silver car in question? Is it not possible that some other silver car was driving down Cherry River at that time? Even if a car expert can identify it as an Audi (I'm not a car expert, and to me it just looks like a generic car), how do they know that it's the Audi?

 

[sonjay]

On 8NewsNow's Facebook page (it's a media source, so I think this is allowed), the neighbor Missy Mours posted these comments:

Road rage... It was next to my house... I heard it all happen.. The daughter ran in the house when they got there and the suspect shot off 4 rounds and then there was a pause of about 45 seconds and then the return fire of 3 shots followed by tires screeching off...

The son was inside the home and came out to protect his mother after his sister came in distraught saying they needed help
​

Source: https://www.facebook.com/8NewsNOW/posts/10153106592566303

It's clear that Missy didn't see the daughter run inside and the son run out. We know that's not how it happened, for one thing, and she doesn't say that she was outside to see it. I'm guessing she's repeating that part from RM's story.

But she does say that she heard it. What she says she heard was 4 rounds, then a pause of about 45 seconds, then 3 rounds, then tires screeching off.

I haven't seen this posted before.

It's not much, as evidence goes. She probably misheard the number of rounds; we know from the arrest affidavit that police recovered 10 spent shell casings at shooting scene #2, seven .45 casings and three 9mm casings.

She probably misoverestimated the pause of 45 seconds. I don't see how there could have been a pause of 45 seconds in the middle of the shootout.

But that suggests that there was a pause in the gunfire that she thought seemed like a long pause. Her perception was that there was gunfire, then a pause, then more gunfire.

Let's assume that she wildly misoverestimated the length of the pause, and that it was actually only 5 seconds.

Really? Car rushes up, gunfire, then a pause of 5 seconds, then more gunfire?

Does anyone else think Missy's pause happened? Does anything think it signifies anything in particular? I have no theory about this. I only know that it strikes me as odd that there would be such a pause in the middle of a shootout.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

If we're correct and that footage is from a camera over on Cherry River, how do the police know that it shows the silver car in question? Is it not possible that some other silver car was driving down Cherry River at that time? Even if a car expert can identify it as an Audi (I'm not a car expert, and to me it just looks like a generic car), how do they know that it's the Audi?

Any number of things are possible and I do question how well LE is doing their job in this case. I've even considered the Meyers know exactly who was driving the sedan or that in that CCTV image it is the Meyers themselves we see. From StreetView you can see a sedan with tinted windows in the Meyers driveway and given the low-quality CCTV footage I considered that car could be what we see (though I think it isn't because the rear windows are too small on the white sedan). Also if you look at a the satellite image of the Meyers, it appears there's a grey sedan on their property, though it could be the same white sedan but looking grey due to shadows. It even wouldn't be contradicted by what EN has said for the Meyers to have been in some other car besides the Buick as the only third party who says there's proof the Buick was involved was RM, but the Buick could have sustained damage in other ways. I think the Buick was involved, but the Meyers have room in their driveway for two cars and a grey sedan may be seen on satellite imagery at their house. Also if the Meyers have at least two cars and three people at the house, why didn't they take two cars and coordinate on the cell phone so that they'd have the numerical advantage...we for instance are actually assuming KM was home alone rather than in another car, but the complaint is silent as to what she was doing once BM is alleged to have been involved.

 

[Gin]

On 8NewsNow's Facebook page (it's a media source, so I think this is allowed), the neighbor Missy Mours posted these comments:

Road rage... It was next to my house... I heard it all happen.. The daughter ran in the house when they got there and the suspect shot off 4 rounds and then there was a pause of about 45 seconds and then the return fire of 3 shots followed by tires screeching off...

The son was inside the home and came out to protect his mother after his sister came in distraught saying they needed help
​

Source: https://www.facebook.com/8NewsNOW/posts/10153106592566303

It's clear that Missy didn't see the daughter run inside and the son run out. We know that's not how it happened, for one thing, and she doesn't say that she was outside to see it. I'm guessing she's repeating that part from RM's story.

But she does say that she heard it. What she says she heard was 4 rounds, then a pause of about 45 seconds, then 3 rounds, then tires screeching off.

I haven't seen this posted before.

It's not much, as evidence goes. She probably misheard the number of rounds; we know from the arrest affidavit that police recovered 10 spent shell casings at shooting scene #2, seven .45 casings and three 9mm casings.

She probably misoverestimated the pause of 45 seconds. I don't see how there could have been a pause of 45 seconds in the middle of the shootout.

But that suggests that there was a pause in the gunfire that she thought seemed like a long pause. Her perception was that there was gunfire, then a pause, then more gunfire.

Let's assume that she wildly misoverestimated the length of the pause, and that it was actually only 5 seconds.

Really? Car rushes up, gunfire, then a pause of 5 seconds, then more gunfire?

Does anyone else think Missy's pause happened? Does anything think it signifies anything in particular? I have no theory about this. I only know that it strikes me as odd that there would be such a pause in the middle of a shootout.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/20/vegas-road-rage-killing-suspect/23769607/

In the above article, she says she lives next door to EN. Would the distances make sense in terms of her being able to have details on that night?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Does anyone else think Missy's pause happened? Does anything think it signifies anything in particular? I have no theory about this. I only know that it strikes me as odd that there would be such a pause in the middle of a shootout.

I'm not sure what to make of it. There is a Melissa Mours that is the next door neighbor to EN on Cherry River who has been interviewed by the media about EN, which would put her some distance away from the events but still within earshot...or there's a bunch of Mours that live within a few hundred feet of one another. Legally speaking this could be used by the defense to say EN only fired after he was fired upon and it may actually be true. BM's own statement was that he was ready to fire (already having his gun drawn and outside) when the car showed up, but we don't know how ready to fire EN was when the car pulled into the neighborhood (the assumption would be that he had his gun drawn still, but we don't actually know that).

 

[sonjay]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/20/vegas-road-rage-killing-suspect/23769607/

In the above article, she says she lives next door to EN. Would the distances make sense in terms of her being able to have details on that night?

Going just by the map, it looks like she's close enough to hear gunfire from the cul de sac. Guns are pretty loud, especially the .45. I think it's PaperDoll who has actually driven through that neighborhood. Maybe PaperDoll can give us a better answer on that.

For sure she wouldn't be able to see anyone running in or out of the house from where she lives. Even if she were standing outside in her driveway at the time, she wouldn't have been able to see any of that.

 

[PaperDoll]

We know however that it wasn't as the CCTV footage shows the silver car turning onto Carmel Peak from Cherry River and going south at 11:22, unless the CCTV footage is an hour off and that footage was captured at 10:22, which itself presents problems.

Ok, I may have misunderstood your original post, but not sure :blushing: I was referring to when the 1st shooting scene when the Buick backed up on Villa Monterey then took Cherry River to home, and the Audi took Alta to Carmel Peak to Mt. Shasta. Also, how do we know the street that video was taken on?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Ok, I may have misunderstood your original post, but not sure :blushing: I was referring to when the 1st shooting scene when the Buick backed up on Villa Monterey then took Cherry River to home, and the Audi took Alta to Carmel Peak to Mt. Shasta. Also, how do we know the street that video was taken on?

Yes, I am referring to that incident too, which the CCTV camera shows a car going east on Cherry and then south on Carmel Peak. I don't know if I should publish the exact address of where the CCTV footage was taken, but it was taken near the corner of Cherry River and Carmel Peak, which if you use StreetView you can match everything seen on both sides of the road in the CCTV image and can even see the security camera itself.

 

[sonjay]

Any number of things are possible and I do question how well LE is doing their job in this case. I've even considered the Meyers know exactly who was driving the sedan or that in that CCTV image it is the Meyers themselves we see. From StreetView you can see a sedan with tinted windows in the Meyers driveway and given the low-quality CCTV footage I considered that car could be what we see (though I think it isn't because the rear windows are too small on the white sedan). Also if you look at a the satellite image of the Meyers, it appears there's a grey sedan on their property, though it could be the same white sedan but looking grey due to shadows. It even wouldn't be contradicted by what EN has said for the Meyers to have been in some other car besides the Buick as the only third party who says there's proof the Buick was involved was RM, but the Buick could have sustained damage in other ways. I think the Buick was involved, but the Meyers have room in their driveway for two cars and a grey sedan may be seen on satellite imagery at their house. Also if the Meyers have at least two cars and three people at the house, why didn't they take two cars and coordinate on the cell phone so that they'd have the numerical advantage...we for instance are actually assuming KM was home alone rather than in another car, but the complaint is silent as to what she was doing once BM is alleged to have been involved.

I suspect that LE knows quite a lot more than we know. They've been playing things close to the vest from the beginning, which suggests to me that they've known or suspected from the very beginning that the story was full of holes. I'm very much looking forward to things being revealed in court, either at a preliminary hearing or at the trial, if there is one. I'm especially looking forward to the cross examinations of the Meyers family members.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I suspect that LE knows quite a lot more than we know. They've been playing things close to the vest from the beginning, which suggests to me that they've known or suspected from the very beginning that the story was full of holes.

It's not mutually exclusive them not revealing everything and them doing a poor job. It was a bad job them getting rid of key evidence before they even had a suspect indicted, which if they suspect the Meyers in any way that makes their mishandling of evidence all the more unforgivable.

 

[sonjay]

It's not mutually exclusive them not revealing everything and them doing a poor job. It was a bad job them getting rid of key evidence before they even had a suspect indicted, which if they suspect the Meyers in any way that makes their mishandling of evidence all the more unforgivable.

We don't know that they got rid of key evidence. I have found several reports now (in addition to the one I posted way upthread) that there was a GSR test done on TM, and that what the defense was asking for was a court order to allow them to do their own independent test.

If this is correct, then they have not, in fact, gotten rid of any evidence.

Based on the facial expressions, tone of voice, and careful choice of words in the various LE press conferences, I have always had the impression that they know a lot more than they're saying publicly.

 

[SeeAlice]

I don't know where exactly we are in this saga but I have been trying to imagine the reactions of myself as a woman & mother and my son as a young adult man & son.

This is what I think would happen at my house:

I whip into my driveway and slam on the brakes. I run in the house (or call my son on my cell phone from the car?) and say "somebody's trying to kill your sister and me (or just me), grab your gun and come help me find them!"

My own son would tell me "No way, this is your own drama. I'm not getting involved." or something similar. Supposedly I would reply, "I'm going back out to find that(those) #€%+?&, with you or without you." My son would say "Suit yourself," or try to talk me out of it. Or call 911. (Maybe he's not gallant enough or not as "heroic" as Brandon, IDK.)

At that point, one or both of us would be calling Dad, don't you think?
Me to say "You tell Brandon he's got to go with me," and Brandon to tell him "Mom just came in here acting all crazy, saying someone's shooting at her and trying to kill her and now she wants me to help her hunt the guys down. What should I do?"

Even if Brandon and I were caught up in the moment, or on drugs or buying drugs or whatever the circumstances, wouldn't my teenage daughter be in a total panic and call her father as soon as we left her there in the house alone?

I know my imaginings are just that. I don't know how any of it would go down or how I would really react. I'm the type who calls 911 from my cell phone to report reckless driving, obviously impaired drivers, disabled vehicles and downed trees, so it's very hard to try to put myself in any of their shoes.

But surely somebody would have called Bob during all of this, wouldn't you think?

 

[jjenny]

My understanding that it's a standard procedure and after autopsy, the body is turned over to the family.
What exactly do you expect LE to do with the body?
It decays. It's not going to hold forever.
In some cases, suspects aren't found or found years later. Do you expect LE keep the body for years and years?

 

[Miss Muffet]

BM said in the affidavit that his mom drove "at a high rate of speed" from where she she backed up on Villa Monterey to Cherry Vista and the took Cherry River to go home. Given that BM reportedly didn't even have enough time to get his mother out of the car -- he pushed her back into car because the Audi entered Mt. Shasta just as he was helping her get out -- there probably wasn't enough time for the Audi to drive from the corner of Villa Monterey and Alto west on Alta to Cimarron, north on Cimarron, east on Cherry River, south on Carmel Peak, and then turn into Mt. Shasta.

You're giving BM's statement more weight than the physical evidence of the Audi in the video captured driving slowly with a spotlight searching. That's evidence the Audi was looking for the Buick and didn't know for certain where they lived.

If the Audi drove slowly looking for them, taking the route Alta to Cimarron to Cherry River to Carmel Peak to Mt. Shasta, it seems like BM and his mom should have had plenty of time to get into the house -- especially if the Audi was driving slowly looking for them. If the Audi was driving like a BOOH, it might have been able to cover that route and arrive just as BM was getting his mom out of the car.

Believing it's one long sequence of events without the buick going home to get BM and his gun, the above means there was plenty of time for BM to come out of the house while TM was trying to get a traumatized KM out of the car.

Maybe BM is lying about that part. Maybe they got back to the cul de sac and were standing there waiting for the Audi to find them.

That's a possibility. They've proved themselves to be fearless throughout the entire night right up until they were surprised by the Audi suddenly creating roadblock trap and firing at them. Maybe they did the same at their house.

 

[Miss Muffet]

My understanding that it's a standard procedure and after autopsy, the body is turned over to the family.
What exactly do you expect LE to do with the body?
It decays. It's not going to hold forever.
In some cases, suspects aren't found or found years later. Do you expect LE keep the body for years and years?

I expect states to have laws prohibiting bodies from being cremated if the deceased was murdered or had a suspicious death. Any death from gunshot should be buried instead of cremated.

 

[jjenny]

I expect states to have laws prohibiting bodies from being cremated if the deceased was murdered or had a suspicious death. Any death from gunshot should be buried instead of cremated.

As far as I can tell, that's not true. There are no laws like that. How can you prohibit victim's family from cremating the victim? You are going to punish them again?

 

[Miss Muffet]

You have to believe there was a road rage incident. I am not buying that at all. KM told a very convoluted, detailed story about how that supposedly all went down: 6ft tall guy, hazel eyes, all the maneuvering by both cars and the almost laughable quote straight out of a B movie: I'm coming back for you and your daughter". And why would he say that? EN already had a gun. They didn't have to come back. They could take care of it right then and there. Oops! They did try to take care of it. EN shot 6 or 7 times before they reached the cul de sac. But the M's did not want to report that part for some reason. Of everything I've just written, I think the only true part is where EN shot at the Buick. Again, EN is consistent to friends when he says the confrontation started at the school. He thought people were out to get him and he recognized the Buick, IMO. Any chasing or maneuvering by the vehicles was done as a result of a personal issue, deal gone bad, etc. Not as a result of the Buick driving slowly. IMO.

Because he was alone at the time. That encounter happened while he was on the way to the park to pick up EN after EN called and said there was a green buick freaking him out.

KM and TM were driving around for 40 minutes between the first time EN saw them at the school and the first shootout scene occurring shortly after their second time at the school. It's right in the warrant. 2210 to 2250. That means the two shooting scenes occurred between 2250 and 2320-2330

Don't you think that LE has checked security cameras throughout the area and verified the buick was out since 2210 and what it was doing? I'll bet the school has security cameras. They'd have to be checking everywhere since KM stated there was a road rage incident. If they didn't find a security camera showing a road rage encounter near where she sad, they'd look all along her route in case she wasn't remembering the location correctly due to just being traumatized. Since they're investigating a murder, they're going to spend much more time looking at as many security cameras as they can to find the road rage incident than they'd normally spend investigating just a road rage incident.

So, there being over 40 minutes from when KM was at the school the first time and the first shooting scene happened after that 40 minutes, allows plenty of time for EN to call the Audi and the Audi have a road rage incident on the way to pick up EN. His saying he'll come back for them indicates he's going to get EN to come back for them. It also indicates that the Audi driver may not have had a gun.

To KM it appeared to be road rage since she had no idea she freaked out EN by driving loops around the school. To the Audi driver, it wasn't road rage because he was intentionally targeting the green buick the moment he saw it because his friend had called to be picked up due to the green buick scaring him.

According to EN's female witness in the warrant, EN had telling her and her boyfriend that people had been threatening him. This is stated in the beginning, indicating that he had been saying this before the night of the shooting. EN was probably telling most of his friends about the threats, including the Audi driver. That's a motive for the Audi driver to be confrontational on the way to the pick up EN at the park.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Yes, I think the Audi was very close behind. But remember, now the story is that BM was in the car. KM did not have to go get him. But I tend to think all three were in the car and it was one extended incident.

The story isn't now BM was in the car all along. That's sonjays story. That might be your story too. It might be other people's stories, but it's not everyone's story. Some of us haven't ruled out the buick returning home part of the story.