GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[sonjay]

what is missing??

no witnesses to KM running into the house very loudly yelling to BM

where's Gramma & other brother that night?

Yes, there's still soooo much information missing.

The DA presented to the GJ what he thought was needed to get the indictment. At trial (assuming it goes to trial), all of that will come out. If not on direct, then on cross.

I'm still laughing at KM not listing BM as one of the people who lives there, but BM apparently unaware that he doesn't live there. I had wondered about that at least 2 or 3 weeks ago, if BM actually lives there. But the DA didn't even clear that up for the GJ.

It's obvious, to me, that the DA knows that KM & BM have trouble telling a story correctly. He asked them lots and lots of leading questions -- which he won't be allowed to do at trial. He even corrected Brandon at one point, explaining to the jurors what Brandon meant.

He asked KK & Mogg a lot more questions that required that they actually tell something in their own words. With BM & KM, he stuck mostly to lengthy questions that they could respond to with just "Yes" or "that's correct."

 

[BellaVita]

QUOTE FROM GJ: And he describes how the car was coming, the green car the victim was in, was coming down the street. And based on my knowledge of the scene, the location of the victim's residence, the location of his residence where he would have been at approximately the time that the victim was driving westbound on Cherry River, basically paralleling him to try to get home, he would have seen that car coming down from Cherry River onto Carmel Peak probably prior to or just as it turned into the Mount Shasta cul-de-sac. He said they continued westbound and he said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his house. His house is further to the west on Cherry River than Carmel Peak. So they turned around and they came back and he said "I know a left turn, a shortcut to get to my house," something to that effect. They come back into the cul-de-sac on Mount Shasta where the victim was shot.

This is interesting to me. Maybe someone with better understanding of the street layout can comment. This makes mention of the EN car and the M car paralleling each other. In the original criminal complaint, KM says when they got to the cul e sac after the so-called "road rage incident" she thought she saw the silver car driving south on Carmel Peak which is the road east of the cul de sac. Is EN's version the same story that KM is telling except that KM is claiming it is the spikey haired guy? If this is two descriptions of the same event, then KM WAS in the car for the ENTIRE event.


ALSO FROM GJ:he (EN)
sees the victim's vehicle at the end of the cul-de-sac
with the driver door open and he sees someone running
whom he describes as a male with a beard from maybe the
passenger side of the car toward the house. He believes
at that point that this person is going to get, in his
terms, more straps or guns and so he said that he also saw heads in the vehicle so he started shooting at the
car and then he saw the person running toward the house

Heads is in the plural! Of course it may have been headrests. HOWEVER, car door is open, inside dome light is possibly on illuminating the inside of the car. One M is running toward the house and at the same time, EN describes more than one head in the Buick. Is this why KM stated early on "it could have been me".

 

[BellaVita]

"Not at that point. Later in the interview he learned that the person he shot was Tammy Meyers
and that he had actually been to their house on
a previous occasion and had dinner, he knew daughter, knew that she was 15 years old,
which was contrary to what the media reported that she was 14, he also knew the victim's son, I believe Matthew and Robert, he didn't know the older son though, said he might have seen him on one previous occasion but didn't know him." (Brandon)


It is established that both Brandon and EN said they didn't know each other.

Another oddity. Have not read entire context of this, but he makes it sound like he barely knew the M's yet RM says that TM consoled him "numerous times".

 

[sonjay]

This is interesting to me. Maybe someone with better understanding of the street layout can comment. This makes mention of the EN car and the M car paralleling each other. In the original criminal complaint, KM says when they got to the cul e sac after the so-called "road rage incident" she thought she saw the silver car driving south on Carmel Peak which is the road east of the cul de sac. Is EN's version the same story that KM is telling except that KM is claiming it is the spikey haired guy? If this is two descriptions of the same event, then KM WAS in the car for the ENTIRE event.

Snipped for focus, and BBM. Again, for reference, here is the chart I made comparing KM's road rage trip with BM's shootout trip. I added the part where they saw the silver car driving on Carmel Peak before turning into Mt. Shasta.

I believe they are one and the same trip, and that KM was in the car for that trip. I believe the original KM story, with the driving lessons and road rage, were completely fabricated in an attempt to cover up what really happened.

KM	BM
Green car went to school for driving lesson — EN saw Buick at school	Green car went to school to look for EN — EN saw Buick at school
Near collision, green car honked at silver car — this set off the chase and shooting	Green car brandished or pointed gun at silver car — this set off the chase and shooting
Silver car chased green car	Green car chased silver car
Silver car stopped diagonally in front of green car and blocked its path	Silver car stopped diagonally in front of green car and blocked its path
Silver car driver got out and threatened green car	Silver car passenger shot at green car
Green car fled back to cul de sac	Green car fled back to cul de sac
KM sees silver car driving south on Carmel Peak	BM sees silver car driving north on Carmel Peak
Silver car turned into cul de sac and began shooting	Silver car turned into cul de sac and began shooting
BM came out of house & returned fire	BM got out of car returned fire
Silver car left	Silver car left

 

[sonjay]

My god, I really believe EN was scared outta his mind but it was all in his head, so paranoid! Can the defense effectively use self-defense based on EN simply BELIEVING they were following him and out get him? Feeling uneducated and sad... this may really just be a terrible event where there were no bad guys. Or, rather, everyone could be considered the bad guy based on the crappy choices they each made.

I really believe EN was scared. But I don't think it was all in his head. I think people were out to get him.

I wonder what the Meyerses would have done if he hadn't had a gun and hadn't called his friend to come get him to help him get away. To me, all the indications are that they were after him that night, not the other way around.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Another oddity. Have not read entire context of this, but he makes it sound like he barely knew the M's yet RM says that TM consoled him "numerous times".

Right. And he had been to their house for dinner, yet KM states she doesn't know "baby G's" name.

So did TM call EN "baby G"? As in, Baby G is coming over for dinner tonight. Or KM, the person sitting across from you is "baby G". Pass the salt.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I think EN was right to be scared. He says that when they were first chased that at first he stuck his gun and his body out the window to show that he was armed and to get the Buick to back away but didn't, which surprised him. EN then only fired after the Buick wouldn't stop chasing them and then fired again after he thought they drove by his house and were getting even more guns.

Isn't it quite something that TM and BM continued to pursue the Audi even after seeing EN show them the people in the Audi were armed? To me, that really does who TM and BM had intent wen they left their house to look at the "minor accident" scene. God, I gotta laugh about RM saying that. He wrote that statement AFTER his children gave this testimony to the Grand Jury. Many of the things he says contradicts his children's testimony.

It's obvious, to me, that the DA knows that KM & BM have trouble telling a story correctly. He asked them lots and lots of leading questions -- which he won't be allowed to do at trial. He even corrected Brandon at one point, explaining to the jurors what Brandon meant.

He asked KK & Mogg a lot more questions that required that they actually tell something in their own words. With BM & KM, he stuck mostly to lengthy questions that they could respond to with just "Yes" or "that's correct."

I noticed that too. When one jurist ask BM a question, and BM started to answer, the DA said something like, "Let me ask him some questions to help get to the answer you're looking for." Then the DA practically states everything for BM with BM just responding with affirmatives, and the DA asks the jurist if he was satisfied. I don't think the jurist was because his/her response was "sure." But what is a jurist to do when part of a kangaroo court.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I am ready, myself, to strike the driving lesson/road rage incident from the story.

I agree it sounds fabricated to cover up what really happened.

You know when I'm going to take my kid driving *for the first time with me*? Sunday at 11:00 am. Not Thursday night at 11:00 p.m. to practice parallel parking, especially when the thursday night is like a Friday because of the 3 day holiday weekend.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I also agree that KM and BM will be poor witnesses for the prosecution and that Claus will be able to tear many many holes in their stories.

 

[sonjay]

I also agree that KM and BM will be poor witnesses for the prosecution and that Claus will be able to tear many many holes in their stories.

Even a terrible lawyer would be able to tear them apart on cross. The Claus Bros. will be mopping up the floor with those two. Especially KM.

 

[Miss Muffet]

This is interesting to me. Maybe someone with better understanding of the street layout can comment. This makes mention of the EN car and the M car paralleling each other. In the original criminal complaint, KM says when they got to the cul e sac after the so-called "road rage incident" she thought she saw the silver car driving south on Carmel Peak which is the road east of the cul de sac. Is EN's version the same story that KM is telling except that KM is claiming it is the spikey haired guy? If this is two descriptions of the same event, then KM WAS in the car for the ENTIRE event.

Didn't BM also state in the warrant seeing the car on Carmel Peak when they were driving down Mt. Shasta to the house? I think he did. That was one of the similarities he and KM had all along.

Heads is in the plural! Of course it may have been headrests. HOWEVER, car door is open, inside dome light is possibly on illuminating the inside of the car. One M is running toward the house and at the same time, EN describes more than one head in the Buick. Is this why KM stated early on "it could have been me".

Good catch. It doesn't make sense though.

Why would TM get out of the car during the gunfire and leave KM behind? This makes me wonder if TM had a gun too.

Plus, why would BM try to get his mom out of the drivers seat and not be concerned about his sister in the back? Could the BIG lie be simply that the family is trying to hide that TM would be stupid enough tot take a 15 year old daughter along for a shootout?

 

[sonjay]

Isn't it quite something that TM and BM continued to pursue the Audi even after seeing EN show them the people in the Audi were armed? To me, that really does who TM and BM had intent wen they left their house to look at the "minor accident" scene. God, I gotta laugh about RM saying that. He wrote that statement AFTER his children gave this testimony to the Grand Jury. Many of the things he says contradicts his children's testimony.


I noticed that too. When one jurist ask BM a question, and BM started to answer, the DA said something like, "Let me ask him some questions to help get to the answer you're looking for." Then the DA practically states everything for BM with BM just responding with affirmatives, and the DA asks the jurist if he was satisfied. I don't think the jurist was because his/her response was "sure." But what is a jurist to do when part of a kangaroo court.

Oh yeah. He totally doesn't trust either KM or BM to give the "right" answers.

He won't be able to do that in court during the trial, though. You can't ask leading questions like that on direct examination.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I agree. He will use their statements against them.

What really bothers me is that BM was saying that he and TM were crouching down in the car when the first set of gunfire was exchanged and the prosecutor said BM meant to say "leaning back".

Those two things are NOT the same thing. Ducking down is NOT the same thing as leaning back.

And why would they lean back if someone was shooting at them? Surely ducking down makes more sense IF you are defenseless and someone is shooting at you.

 

[sonjay]

Didn't BM also state in the warrant seeing the car on Carmel Peak when they were driving down Mt. Shasta to the house? I think he did. That was one of the similarities he and KM had all along.


Good catch. It doesn't make sense though.

Why would TM get out of the car during the gunfire and leave KM behind? This makes me wonder if TM had a gun too.

Plus, why would BM try to get his mom out of the drivers seat and not be concerned about his sister in the back? Could the BIG lie be simply that the family is trying to hide that TM would be stupid enough tot take a 15 year old daughter along for a shootout?

I personally think that the BIG lie is that they went out that night intending to do something to EN. Kill him? Scare him? Threaten him? I dunno. I don't think they intended to have a shoot out; when you don't expect your target to have a gun, you don't expect a shootout.

But they're the ones that went out that night with ill intent, IMO. EN clearly did not instigate this incident. IMO, MOO, JMO and all that jazz.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I have to say, I believe EN's story about what happened.

I think TM went to the park to screw with EN.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I personally think that the BIG lie is that they went out that night intending to do something to EN. Kill him? Scare him? Threaten him? I dunno. I don't think they intended to have a shoot out; when you don't expect your target to have a gun, you don't expect a shootout.

But they're the ones that went out that night with ill intent, IMO. EN clearly did not instigate this incident. IMO, MOO, JMO and all that jazz.

I agree, as I posted nearly the same thing as you at nearly the same time.

It does sound to me that the M's were the aggressor.

 

[sonjay]

I agree. He will use their statements against them.

What really bothers me is that BM was saying that he and TM were crouching down in the car when the first set of gunfire was exchanged and the prosecutor said BM meant to say "leaning back".

Those two things are NOT the same thing. Ducking down is NOT the same thing as leaning back.

And why would they lean back if someone was shooting at them? Surely ducking down makes more sense IF you are defenseless and someone is shooting at you.

Agree, yes, that was a very odd correction. Ducking down makes much more sense than leaning back.

I'm wondering if it actually has any relevance to anything. I can't figure out why he would even bother "correcting" that.

 

[BellaVita]

Miss Muffet said:Good catch. It doesn't make sense though.

Why would TM get out of the car during the gunfire and leave KM behind? This makes me wonder if TM had a gun too.

My reply:
Plus, why would BM try to get his mom out of the drivers seat and not be concerned about his sister in the back? Could the BIG lie be simply that the family is trying to hide that TM would be stupid enough tot take a 15 year old daughter along for a shootout?

Only time to help one? Felt TM needed help more for whatever reason?

 

[Hiandmighty]

I wondered the same thing myself. Why did the prosecutor make a point to distinguish that they were leaning back and not ducking down?

This may come into play later.

BM can't establish what he was doing in the car and his sister doesn't seem to think he lives at the house. I really wonder how many bedrooms that house has. Did BM and his grandmother share a room??? With an Xbox?

I also noticed the thing BM was most descriptive about was how TM was so frantic that she yelled so loud as to grab his attention while he was "inside a game". It stuck me as odd that he was on point about that part (cause maybe that is the part that he made up?)

 

[Hiandmighty]

Also, does brandon M have a beard? EN describes the person running to the house as having a beard.