GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[Hiandmighty]

No doubt the State has all that surveillance video ready to go and it will show the driving lessons.

Is it known that the schools have CCTV? Our public schools don't and only one private school does.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Is it known that the schools have CCTV? Our public schools don't and only one private school does.

The schools in general yes, but this specific school I haven't found and even if it does have cameras, they may not be in the specific locations in question.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/9414554/school-district-employees-actions-raise-questions

 

[Hiandmighty]

Hopefully it will answer some questions!!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Based on the EN confession as relayed by Detective Mogg I might have an explanation as to why EN was where he was and why TM chased the Audi:

At one point he said that he
was actually waiting in the park and didn't want to get
into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car
had left the area. Eventually the green car leaves the
area. He said he got into the vehicle with a friend of
his whom he described as a white male. He was sitting,
Nowsch was sitting in the front passenger seat, the
other male was the driver, and he describes the car as a
cream colored four door vehicle. He said they were
sitting on the side of the street when all of a sudden
the green car came around behind them again, and they
pulled away

So per EN the Audi had already arrived while the Buick was still there, so the Buick could have seen the Audi. The Buick could have especially seen the Audi if it had parked by school on Ducharme, which would be why EN didn't want to get into the car until the Buick left. If a relatively short period of time had elapsed rather than a long period, Nowsch may have only been in the car for a few minutes and the car was parked in the same location this whole time, so TM would have gone to exactly where it was before and known what it looked like because she saw it pull in and park. Knowing that the Audi had already arrived can explain how TM knew to go after that car given that EN didn't have a car. KM herself testified that some unknown person in the area that she didn't get a good look at but her mom did caused them to end the driving lessons, which this is a new addition that wasn't in the original complaint or reported to the media AFAIK and actually bolsters EN's claim as both parties acted the same way, so if EN was being paranoid so was TM at the same time. EN said he walked back and forth and hid himself only to re-appear and KM says the same thing about the person only TM looked at. Other than TM knowing/suspecting the Audi was for EN, it doesn't really make sense why else TM would chase that car right by where that freaky person that caused TM to allegedly end the driving lessons plus if she had seen the Audi arrive and park, she would have known what direction to approach it to be behind it rather than facing it. Pulling up behind and chasing a car that wasn't near the alleged incident doesn't make sense as there's any number of light four door sedans you can see around there just by using StreetView. Also I've noticed that KM saying she say the car drive by their street is left out of this, but was in the complaint.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Well, IIRC he was supposed to meet two girls at the park and he called them off, so I took Mogg's relaying of events to mean there was no other car there because EN had called everyone and said not to come because the green car acted strange.

But, yes, what you put is an alternative reading of it.

I took it as he was waiting at the park, green car mirroring him, called friends and said don't come...

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Well, IIRC he was supposed to meet two girls at the park and he called them off, so I took Mogg's relaying of events to mean there was no other car there because EN had called everyone and said not to come because the green car acted strange.

But, yes, what you put is an alternative reading of it.

I took it as he was waiting at the park, green car mirroring him, called friends and said don't come...

He told the girls not to come, but the ones who came where who he said to come instead, which there had to have been a car to come and get him:
"He said that at that point he was
supposed to meet up with a couple of girls whom he had
placed a call into but then he called them again and
canceled that because he didn't want them to be there if
something were to go wrong. At that point he called two
friends whom he refused to identify to me and asked them
to come and assist him. At one point he said that he
was actually waiting in the park and didn't want to get
into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car
had left the area."
After cancelling with the girls he calls the Audi, but waits to get in the Audi until after the Buick leaves.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Ah, o.k. Thanks.

 

[sonjay]

I just noticed this in the GJ transcript -- pg 98, Det. Mogg testifying:

"... that was the markings on the roadway from the cartridge casings and the cartridge that was recovered during the late evening, early morning hours of the 12th and 13th at Villa Monterey and Alta..."

The police recovered the spent cartridge casings at the first shooting scene the night of the 12th/early morning 13th. That was the night of the shooting -- that means that LE knew about the first shooting scene from the very beginning!

LE knew all along that the Meyerses were lying.

The first major version of the story -- driving lesson, road rage, silver car followed them home and opened fire. LE knew that was a lie.

The next major version of the story -- driving lesson, road rage, escape, get BM & his gun, go find silver car but break off and go home, silver car appears in cul de sac and opens fire. LE knew that was a lie.

We already know that LE knew EN's name several days before the arrest -- and before RM ever mentioned that they knew EN. LE knew they were lying about that.

LE has been letting the Meyerses dig themselves in deeper and deeper with their lies.

LE has been several steps ahead of the Meyerses this whole time.

I wonder what else LE has been letting the Meyerses continue to lie about. They've known all along that the Meyerses having been lying up a storm.

This also explains the weird facial expressions and tone of voice at the LE press conferences. They knew they were repeating lies for public consumption.

 

[sonjay]

What I'd like to get a sense of and what could be very revealing was how long was it between EN getting into the Audi and the Buick returning to be behind them at the school - was it 2 minutes or 20 minutes - and I'd hope there would be school CCTV footage to show that...not just for what the Buick was doing, but the timeframe in which it came and left the school area. Per the Meyers account it had to be have been at least like 20 minutes with going to the circuitous route to Durango until finally getting back home after the alleged road rage and then once BM got in the car also driving around some more before arriving back at the school, but with the way EN allegedly says it happened, it could have been much quicker than that.

Yes, I agree. While I believe the reports of EN's accounts to be truthful, they've also been frustratingly vague as to exact times, locations, etc.

EN may not be able to be any more precise on such things, even if he wants to. Hopefully surveillance video, phone records, etc., can nail down some of these things more precisely.

 

[sonjay]

Ok so this still doesn't make sense to me.. lol sorry, I'm senseless when I think.. :blushing: So say there really wasn't a driving lesson going on, why would all 3 be in the car during both shootouts? If they all wanted to locate EN that night, they could have when he was in the park alone, that would have been a good time to take care of business..

I think a more pertinent question is, why would any of them have gone out there with a gun for the shootouts? When (if) we learn the answer to that question, we might also learn why all 3 of them were out there.

As for getting EN while EN was in the park..... Well, the park isn't open to vehicular traffic. EN was on foot inside the park. They were in the Buick. They probably didn't want to get out of the car -- possibly believing it provided them some protection, or afforded them a fast getaway if needed.

I can picture it -- he moves toward the south, toward Cherry River -- the Buick moves south on Villa Monterey toward Cherry River. EN moves back north, toward Ducharme -- the Buick goes north on Villa Monterey, toward Ducharme. They can't get to him while he's in the park, and he can't get away without leaving the safety of the park. This corresponds to what EN told Mogg.

This is speculation on my part, as I wasn't there. It might not be exactly how that happened. But I can picture it.

 

[PaperDoll]

She knew she wanted her son and his gun. Her son flashed his gun and somehow unspent ammo ended up in the passenger seat. When the target of the hunt saw a gun being brandished, he self-defended. The difference being that EN could handle a weapon better. IMO.

BBM: EN didn't handle is weapon very well either, look how many shots he fired and only one of those bullets hit someone

 

[PaperDoll]

I believe ZA & KK to be very credible. I also believe that EN was truthful both in his conversation with ZA and KK, and in his statement to Mogg. The story as relayed by ZA & KK is so very similar to the story EN told Mogg, I think we can mostly take EN's statements as true. He probably got some of the details not quite right -- that's to be expected from anybody.

But the bare-bones facts as EN saw them? I tend to believe that he was telling the truth: i.e., he had gotten threats to himself, his mother and his baby sister; he was at the park; he saw the green car; he thought it was the people who were after him; he called his friend with the Audi; the green car chased them; he fired at the green car; he was shocked when they saw the green car pass by very close to EN's own house; they went into the cul de sac and he fired at a person at the car and at a person running from the car to the house. I believe those things happened.

EN, however, can't tell us what TM, KM & BM were doing or thinking prior to all of this. If there were driving lessons at the school, EN didn't recognize them as such when he saw the green car. If there was a road rage, EN wasn't present for it. If there was a spiky-haired dude, EN doesn't know him. EN doesn't know whether BM was in the house sleeping or playing xbox.

For those things, we have to rely on the words of known liars and on any physical evidence that might be available. Surveillance footage, phone & text records, any other witnesses, etc.

I'm convinced that we correctly know what EN saw, what he thought, and what he did.

I'm also convinced that the Meyerses are still not being truthful.



I'd bet money that it was that Stan -- but not very much.

LOL, yes I agree that EN is being truthful AFTER he lied about where he was that night and had nothing to do with the killing.. But he finally broke down and told the truth. I also believe the Meyers are telling the truth, too even though they are getting some of the so called details mixed up a bit. They just witnesses their mother being shot and killed so I'm sure that whole night was a shock to them. IMO!

 

[Hiandmighty]

I just noticed this in the GJ transcript -- pg 98, Det. Mogg testifying:

"... that was the markings on the roadway from the cartridge casings and the cartridge that was recovered during the late evening, early morning hours of the 12th and 13th at Villa Monterey and Alta..."

The police recovered the spent cartridge casings at the first shooting scene the night of the 12th/early morning 13th. That was the night of the shooting -- that means that LE knew about the first shooting scene from the very beginning!

LE knew all along that the Meyerses were lying.

The first major version of the story -- driving lesson, road rage, silver car followed them home and opened fire. LE knew that was a lie.

The next major version of the story -- driving lesson, road rage, escape, get BM & his gun, go find silver car but break off and go home, silver car appears in cul de sac and opens fire. LE knew that was a lie.

We already know that LE knew EN's name several days before the arrest -- and before RM ever mentioned that they knew EN. LE knew they were lying about that.

LE has been letting the Meyerses dig themselves in deeper and deeper with their lies.

LE has been several steps ahead of the Meyerses this whole time.

I wonder what else LE has been letting the Meyerses continue to lie about. They've known all along that the Meyerses having been lying up a storm.

This also explains the weird facial expressions and tone of voice at the LE press conferences. They knew they were repeating lies for public consumption.

I wonder if at any point we will see additional arrests.

 

[PaperDoll]

Well, IIRC he was supposed to meet two girls at the park and he called them off, so I took Mogg's relaying of events to mean there was no other car there because EN had called everyone and said not to come because the green car acted strange.

But, yes, what you put is an alternative reading of it.

I took it as he was waiting at the park, green car mirroring him, called friends and said don't come...

Yes he called off the 2 girls because he didn't want them involved. He called his friend, whom I'm thinking would help him take care of this situation. EN was in a "gang" if you will and knew people who I'm sure wouldn't mind helping him out.

 

[sonjay]

LOL, yes I agree that EN is being truthful AFTER he lied about where he was that night and had nothing to do with the killing.. But he finally broke down and told the truth. I also believe the Meyers are telling the truth, too even though they are getting some of the so called details mixed up a bit. They just witnesses their mother being shot and killed so I'm sure that whole night was a shock to them. IMO!

In general, I don't assume there's anything malicious or nefarious when people get details mixed up. Particularly with respect to high-stress events like a shooting or seeing a family member get killed.

But the two Meyers kids went beyond that. Far beyond that.

Originally, they told the driving lesson/road rage story but completely neglected to mention that TM brought KM home, picked up BM with his gun, and went out hunting for EN. That's way beyond getting some of the details mixed up.

Then after that part became public knowledge, they still failed to mention that there was a shooting scene (or Sean) over on Ducharme prior to the shooting in the cul de sac. That's way beyond getting some of the details mixed up.

They knew EN -- they knew the shooter was EN. Yet they failed to mention EN to the police until the day EN was arrested. That's way beyond getting some of the details mixed up.

These omissions about the big things can only be deliberate. There's no way they simply got "mixed up" about BM & TM taking BM's gun and going Erich-hunting.

If they had been truthful about the big things, I wouldn't care about the small things, like whether BM was sleeping or playing video games. But given the overall level of deception and lies by the Meyerses, I simply don't believe anything they say, unless there's also physical evidence or other witnesses (with credibility) corroborating it.

 

[PaperDoll]

I think a more pertinent question is, why would any of them have gone out there with a gun for the shootouts? When (if) we learn the answer to that question, we might also learn why all 3 of them were out there.

As for getting EN while EN was in the park..... Well, the park isn't open to vehicular traffic. EN was on foot inside the park. They were in the Buick. They probably didn't want to get out of the car -- possibly believing it provided them some protection, or afforded them a fast getaway if needed.

I can picture it -- he moves toward the south, toward Cherry River -- the Buick moves south on Villa Monterey toward Cherry River. EN moves back north, toward Ducharme -- the Buick goes north on Villa Monterey, toward Ducharme. They can't get to him while he's in the park, and he can't get away without leaving the safety of the park. This corresponds to what EN told Mogg.

This is speculation on my part, as I wasn't there. It might not be exactly how that happened. But I can picture it.

But the Meyers knows all about the park, they live right near it so they are aware of parking or no parking. Also, IIRC there is a small parking area in the park, I can't be sure but when I drove by I was actually looking for one and it might be a very small one. Again, I'm not sure so don't take my word for it.. lol... Ok, if they had a beef with EN then that tells me they also know him and they would most likely know he hangs out in the park, again, they live right there..

I do believe that EN was afraid of that car for whatever reason, but he also "assumed" they were after him when they really weren't. Yup, there could actually have been a, wait for it, DRIVING LESSON! lol Beat that horse to death..

 

[PaperDoll]

In general, I don't assume there's anything malicious or nefarious when people get details mixed up. Particularly with respect to high-stress events like a shooting or seeing a family member get killed.

But the two Meyers kids went beyond that. Far beyond that.

Originally, they told the driving lesson/road rage story but completely neglected to mention that TM brought KM home, picked up BM with his gun, and went out hunting for EN. That's way beyond getting some of the details mixed up.

Then after that part became public knowledge, they still failed to mention that there was a shooting scene (or Sean) over on Ducharme prior to the shooting in the cul de sac. That's way beyond getting some of the details mixed up.

They knew EN -- they knew the shooter was EN. Yet they failed to mention EN to the police until the day EN was arrested. That's way beyond getting some of the details mixed up.

These omissions about the big things can only be deliberate. There's no way they simply got "mixed up" about BM & TM taking BM's gun and going Erich-hunting.

If they had been truthful about the big things, I wouldn't care about the small things, like whether BM was sleeping or playing video games. But given the overall level of deception and lies by the Meyerses, I simply don't believe anything they say, unless there's also physical evidence or other witnesses (with credibility) corroborating it.

On these original stories, who was telling them? Was in RM or KM/BM? I do recall, in so many words, RM did say he didn't want to say too much because "they knew where he lived" But in the police report, which I'm going by they seem to be telling the truth. If everyone is going by what RM is saying, does he really know what went on since he wasn't there to witness it? Is he hearing different versions and then relaying it to the media?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Yes, I agree. While I believe the reports of EN's accounts to be truthful, they've also been frustratingly vague as to exact times, locations, etc.
EN may not be able to be any more precise on such things, even if he wants to. Hopefully surveillance video, phone records, etc., can nail down some of these things more precisely.

To me this makes a big difference whether he had just gotten in the Audi a few minutes prior or if after the Buick went away he either left the scene and returned or otherwise waited around for 20-30 minutes. KK had said the Audi had been driving - implying a return to the scene that he was afraid of - but both BM and Mogg said the Audi was stopped. It would undermine EN's claims of being afraid if he was driving by the exact area that he had been freaking out over, but on the other hand if the Audi had just been parked over there and didn't move, then that's something different as that wouldn't be him returning but just getting in the car. Cutting out all the road rage drama, it would only take about a minute for TM to drive home and then another three minutes to loop around the school from Alta to approach Ducharme going east plus it could have been a few minutes between the Buick leaving and EN deciding the coast was clear for him to get in the Audi.

Until this GJ testimony I had thought EN might have been paranoid and over-reacted, but for whatever reason the DA confirmed EN's fears by having KM testify that TM was also freaking out and resulted in her getting in the driver's seat and going home. I don't know why the DA introduced this piece of evidence as all it seems to do is provide a motive for TM to go home, get a gun and return when prior to this for all we knew the Buick was totally unaware of EN in the park - maybe the DA is playing a rope-a-dope and needed KM to testify under oath to essentially confirming what EN said. It would be nice to hear the audio since it sounds like KM smoked, but didn't inhale seeing EN at the park by describing everything KM saw that person doing, but saying only TM actually looked at that person. I don't see why the DA would add this to the case as I don't see how it helps in prosecuting EN unless they're trying to get the Meyers on record for other reasons.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

On these original stories, who was telling them? Was in RM or KM/BM? I do recall, in so many words, RM did say he didn't want to say too much because "they knew where he lived" But in the police report, which I'm going by they seem to be telling the truth. If everyone is going by what RM is saying, does he really know what went on since he wasn't there to witness it? Is he hearing different versions and then relaying it to the media?

We know RM went over to EN's home on 2/15 with LE not even aware the Meyers knew EN, which I believe LE only found out the Meyers knew EN on 2/19.

 

[sonjay]

On these original stories, who was telling them? Was in RM or KM/BM? I do recall, in so many words, RM did say he didn't want to say too much because "they knew where he lived" But in the police report, which I'm going by they seem to be telling the truth. If everyone is going by what RM is saying, does he really know what went on since he wasn't there to witness it? Is he hearing different versions and then relaying it to the media?

Watch that news conference from the 17th -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPq81Ehq55M&feature=youtu.be
There's no mention of the first shooting scene. At the end, there's a question that I can't hear, but the answer from Lt. Steiber is that they (LE) got their information from BM & KM.

And here's the Las Vegas PD's first press release about the shooting:
http://www.lvmpd.com/Portals/0/news/2015/021315ReleasePO036.pdf
The information in this release had to have come from BM & KM. They're not going to use information provided by the father who was out of town -- they would use information provided by the two witnesses at the scene.

TM and BM were definitely lying to the police. Completely separate and apart from the fairy tales their father tells at every opportunity, the two Meyers kids lied to the police themselves.