GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #6

[SpanishInquisition]

I have a feeling EN exaggerates a bit, maybe in the excitement of it all he didn't remember a lot of details.

I think he saw the Buick heading towards the direction of his house, which that is what he would have seen if they were on Cherry River.

As far as him feeling safe, I'm sure he felt safer in the car holding a gun along with another person who also may have had a gun???? HOWEVER, he could have left the area once he was in the car instead of being parked on a street that is next to the park and school.

We don't know how long EN was in the car nor what the driver was doing or thinking as EN wasn't the driver. For all we know Andrews was talking on his cell phone or for whatever reason didn't want to immediately drive off as Andrews and EN are two different people and we can't automatically the actions of one with the actions of another, which EN was neither in control of the steering wheel nor the gas pedal.

They could have taken Buffalo which is right behind the school and San Jonas. They could have gone to the Casino like EN was at prior to the shooting and wait till things cooled off. He could have called the police and said he thinks someone is out to kill is mom and baby sister so please come check it out, he didn't do that either. In fact he could have went back to his own home, the Audi could have dropped him off there. EN could have ran through the park and headed home instead of waiting then going back out too see if the Buick was still there. The Buick had opportunity to get EN at that time, instead the Buick took off.

Al these things you list the Meyers were doing as well and in fact the Meyers were home form some period of time where the Buick got armed and went back out instead of staying home, yet the Meyers are not facing charges for attempted murder for doing those things you list, so if doing those things by the Meyers isn't premeditation on the Meyers part, it isn't premeditation for EN.

 

[jjenny]

I think he saw the Buick heading towards the direction of his house, which that is what he would have seen if they were on Cherry River.



We don't know how long EN was in the car nor what the driver was doing or thinking as EN wasn't the driver. For all we know Andrews was talking on his cell phone or for whatever reason didn't want to immediately drive off as Andrews and EN are two different people and we can't automatically the actions of one with the actions of another, which EN was neither in control of the steering wheel nor the gas pedal.



Al these things you list the Meyers were doing as well and in fact the Meyers were home form some period of time where the Buick got armed and went back out instead of staying home, yet the Meyers are not facing charges for attempted murder for doing those things you list, so if doing those things by the Meyers isn't premeditation on the Meyers part, it isn't premeditation for EN.

To be charged with attempted murder you have to actually attempt a murder. EN wasn't fired at during the first scene, and at the home, returning fire was self-defense.

 

[jjenny]

Hi BellaV ok, the part about EN seeing the Buick pass his house, that is hard for me to believe, the reason: After the Buick was shot at I'm sure TM/BM were very scared and wanted to get home as fast as they can and into their own house. I do not for one minute think they passed, or took another way home. The route I'm sure they took was: backing up on Villa Monterey/Cherry River/Carmel Peak then Mt. Shasta, if, and once again I do believe this was the way they took, then they didn't pass EN's house, had they continued on Cherry River towards Cimarron, then yes, they would have passed his house. I think EN saw the Buick making the turn on Mt. Shasta and assumed they pasted his house.

I have a feeling EN exaggerates a bit, maybe in the excitement of it all he didn't remember a lot of details. He told KK he fired off 22 rounds at the cul-de-sac but the police didn't find that many and she thought he was exaggerating.

As far as him feeling safe, I'm sure he felt safer in the car holding a gun along with another person who also may have had a gun???? HOWEVER, he could have left the area once he was in the car instead of being parked on a street that is next to the park and school. They could have taken Buffalo which is right behind the school and San Jonas. They could have gone to the Casino like EN was at prior to the shooting and wait till things cooled off. He could have called the police and said he thinks someone is out to kill is mom and baby sister so please come check it out, he didn't do that either. In fact he could have went back to his own home, the Audi could have dropped him off there. EN could have ran through the park and headed home instead of waiting then going back out too see if the Buick was still there. The Buick had opportunity to get EN at that time, instead the Buick took off.

Doesn't look like EN exaggerated. Police recently said they believe 24 shots were fired at TM and BM.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Good Morning everyone.

I was rereading the GJ testimony looking for where EN said he saw a gun being flashed at him.

Unless I missed what he told the detective.... I don't see it mentioned when he talked to LE.

In fact he told the detective he was the one that brandished the gun up in the air when he saw the green car following them.

The detective had for whatever reason had failed to mention that in that section of his testimony, but he addressed it later that EN had seen a gun out the window where this comes up with EN talking about the Buick getting 'more strapped':

Q. But yet he would have, presumably the
person that he had seen the gun out the window, was
already armed?
A. That's correct.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

To be charged with attempted murder you have to actually attempt a murder.

Attempting murder does not mean you fire a gun. All the things listed by PD as proof of EN's premeditation were done by the Meyers as well, so if doing those acts listed is premeditation, that would mean that the Meyers premeditated just their plans failed, which having your plans go awry does not mean you didn't make plans. I'm not seeing that either of the Audi or the Buick premeditated, but if such things are premeditation it would also mean the Audi wasn't alone in premeditating murder.

 

[jjenny]

Attempting murder does not mean you fire a gun. All the things listed by PD as proof of EN's premeditation were done by the Meyers as well, so if doing those acts listed is premeditation, that would mean that the Meyers premeditated just their plans failed, which having your plans go awry does not mean you didn't make plans. I'm not seeing that either of the Audi or the Buick premeditated, but if such things are premeditation it would also mean the Audi wasn't alone in premeditating murder.

How was the murder attempted then? What did they premeditate? You have to try to kill someone in order to attempt a murder. If they haven't managed to shot at EN, they haven't attempted a murder.

 

[sorrell skye]

In all my years here on Websleuths, I never thought I'd see the day that an accused murderer would be defended as if he were the victim.

 

[BellaVita]

Good Morning everyone.

I was rereading the GJ testimony looking for where EN said he saw a gun being flashed at him.

Unless I missed what he told the detective.... I don't see it mentioned when he talked to LE.

In fact he told the detective he was the one that brandished the gun up in the air when he saw the green car following them.

He said they were sitting on the side of the street when all of a sudden
the green car came around behind them again, and they
pulled away, he said the green car started chasing them,
described how they went down a street, and then he said
at one point he was waving his pistol out the passenger
window of the car that he was in up in the air and he
couldn't believe that the car that was behind him didn't
see that and stop and just go away.

From GJ:

The friend came and picked him up. They
stayed in the same vicinity, the neighborhood of the
park area. At that point either they had gone into the
school parking lot or just out of it, but at that point
there was some type of meeting or encounter. And he
didn't express that words were shared, but that the
vehicle came after him or he came after the vehicle.
Also shared that there was a gun being waved out of the
car, didn't specify what window. At that point he sees
a gun, pulls his gun out and fires.

 

[BellaVita]

Quote by PaperDoll: ok, the part about EN seeing the Buick pass his house, that is hard for me to believe, the reason: After the Buick was shot at I'm sure TM/BM were very scared and wanted to get home as fast as they can and into their own house. I do not for one minute think they passed, or took another way home. The route I'm sure they took was: backing up on Villa Monterey/Cherry River/Carmel Peak then Mt. Shasta, if, and once again I do believe this was the way they took, then they didn't pass EN's house, had they continued on Cherry River towards Cimarron, then yes, they would have passed his house. I think EN saw the Buick making the turn on Mt. Shasta and assumed they pasted his house.

From GJ testimony: Notice that from the detective's own interpretation of events, the Audi and Buick were paralleling each other:

he says "No, this can't
be happening, this can't be happening." And he
describes how the car was coming, the green car the
victim was in, was coming down the street. And based on
my knowledge of the scene, the location of the victim's
residence, the location of his residence where he would
have been at approximately the time that the victim was
driving westbound on Cherry River, basically paralleling
him to try to get home, he would have seen that car
coming down from Cherry River onto Carmel Peak probably
prior to or just as it turned into the Mount Shasta
cul-de-sac. He said they continued westbound and he
said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his
house. His house is further to the west on Cherry River
than Carmel Peak. So they turned around and they came
back and he said "I know a left turn, a shortcut to get
to my house," something to that effect.

I believe KM also testified in one of the documents that she saw the Audi on a street parallel to Shasta. This is something that actually matches up.

 

[jjenny]

In all my years here on Websleuths, I never thought I'd see the day that an accused murderer would be defended as if he were the victim.

My feelings exactly. Pathetic, isn't it?

 

[SStarr33]

In all my years here on Websleuths, I never thought I'd see the day that an accused murderer would be defended as if he were the victim.

Just found a post by Tammy's brother to those who trash the family:

https://www.facebook.com/KTNVLasVeg...7520000.1426973299./10152863187818802/?type=1

 

[SpanishInquisition]

How was the murder attempted then? What did they premeditate? You have to try to kill someone in order to attempt a murder. If they haven't managed to shot at EN, they haven't attempted a murder.

As I just said and you even quoted me saying it is that I didn't think either were premeditating. The reasons given for EN premeditating - which the Meyers did the same thing - are that he didn't call 911, he didn't go home or to the police and stay there, he was armed and he went out hunting...all things being said that EN did establishing that he committed the premeditation for M1 rather than a lesser charge. To attempt murder or conspire to murder means that you get a premeditated process going, not that you get to the point of pulling out a knife, pulling the trigger on a gun, slipping someone poison, etc. If two siblings conspire to kill their parents for the inheritance where they plan on pushing their parents off a cliff when they go to their vacation home overlooking the sea where they had taken substantial steps, it would not mean those siblings were not in the process of attempting murder because their plans were foiled before the siblings attempted the poisoning the meal because the poison was purchased and in the kitchen about to be put in their food when the parents caught it before their food was poisoned, which those siblings could be booked for both charges. If willfully finding and chasing the Audi with a gun when the Audi tried to flee rather than calling 911, staying at home or going to the police station are not are not premeditated overt acts in carrying out a plan by the Meyers, then when the Buick is accused of doing those same things they're not overt premeditated acts carried out as part of a plan by the Buick.

 

[PaperDoll]

I think he saw the Buick heading towards the direction of his house, which that is what he would have seen if they were on Cherry River.

We don't know how long EN was in the car nor what the driver was doing or thinking as EN wasn't the driver. For all we know Andrews was talking on his cell phone or for whatever reason didn't want to immediately drive off as Andrews and EN are two different people and we can't automatically the actions of one with the actions of another, which EN was neither in control of the steering wheel nor the gas pedal.

Al these things you list the Meyers were doing as well and in fact the Meyers were home form some period of time where the Buick got armed and went back out instead of staying home, yet the Meyers are not facing charges for attempted murder for doing those things you list, so if doing those things by the Meyers isn't premeditation on the Meyers part, it isn't premeditation for EN.

BBM: If he saw the Buick heading towards his house, then how did he know to turn on Mt. Shasta to find the Buick already parked? He apparently must have seen them make a turn on Mt. Shasta, right? Otherwise why even go into the cul-de-sac with gun loaded and ready?

 

[PaperDoll]

Doesn't look like EN exaggerated. Police recently said they believe 24 shots were fired at TM and BM.

Ok so now the police are changing their stories.. lol I did read that and I questioned it, were there actually 24 shots fired, or were they quoting KK?

 

[jjenny]

Ok so now the police are changing their stories.. lol I did read that and I questioned it, were there actually 24 shots fired, or were they quoting KK?

Excuse me, how did police change their story?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

BBM: If he saw the Buick heading towards his house, then how did he know to turn on Mt. Shasta to find the Buick already parked? He apparently must have seen them make a turn on Mt. Shasta, right? Otherwise why even go into the cul-de-sac with gun loaded and ready?

We don't know that he did know to turn there. Did TM know beforehand to turn on Ducharme to find the Audi there since once she saw it on Ducharme she chased it? What someone did after the fact is not proof of what they were thinking before the fact.

 

[PaperDoll]

From GJ testimony: Notice that from the detective's own interpretation of events, the Audi and Buick were paralleling each other:

he says "No, this can't
be happening, this can't be happening." And he
describes how the car was coming, the green car the
victim was in, was coming down the street. And based on
my knowledge of the scene, the location of the victim's
residence, the location of his residence where he would
have been at approximately the time that the victim was
driving westbound on Cherry River, basically paralleling
him to try to get home, he would have seen that car
coming down from Cherry River onto Carmel Peak probably
prior to or just as it turned into the Mount Shasta
cul-de-sac. He said they continued westbound and he
said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his
house. His house is further to the west on Cherry River
than Carmel Peak. So they turned around and they came
back and he said "I know a left turn, a shortcut to get
to my house," something to that effect.

I believe KM also testified in one of the documents that she saw the Audi on a street parallel to Shasta. This is something that actually matches up.

As far as we know, and I'm going by the GJ statements, KM wasn't in the car during any of the shootings so I don't think she would know. However, I don't believe EN when he said "I can't believe they were driving past my house". I think he assumed they did in all the excitement. Again, I believe the directions per Gogg's testimony, I'm not challenging that because I do believe he is correct. I just think that EN saw the Buick as it turned on Mt. Shasta, I don't believe he saw in turning on Carmel Peak. JMO

 

[PaperDoll]

Excuse me, how did police change their story?

Well I was joking when I said that since everyone is saying the Meyers are always changing their story. What I mean was in the police report/GJ Testimony from LE that there wasn't that many shots fired or casing found at the scene. Then we read about 24 shots were fired. If 24 shots were fired, then why wasn't in any of the reports?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

As far as we know, and I'm going by the GJ statements, KM wasn't in the car during any of the shootings so I don't think she would know. However, I don't believe EN when he said "I can't believe they were driving past my house".

What I thought was meant by that was he couldn't believe Andrews was driving past EN's house with the armed Buick on the loose, so EN gave directions to Andrews how to get back to EN's house. His stated intent upon seeing the Buick again was to go to his home.

 

[PaperDoll]

We don't know that he did know to turn there. Did TM know beforehand to turn on Ducharme to find the Audi there since once she saw it on Ducharme she chased it? What someone did after the fact is not proof of what they were thinking before the fact.

But he turned there and we know he did because that is where the 2nd shooting happened. Why did he turn on Mt. Shasta if he didn't see the Buick there? EN knows he doesn't live on Mt. Shasta so what business would he have being there?