GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #6

[oceanblueeyes]

But he turned there and we know he did because that is where the 2nd shooting happened. Why did he turn on Mt. Shasta if he didn't see the Buick there? EN knows he doesn't live on Mt. Shasta so what business would he have being there?

And didn't the Myers live on a cul-de-sac? Why would he go into a cul-de-sac where he has to circle back around to get out?

Imo, he was at the cul-de-sac to do just what he said .......kill.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

But he turned there and we know he did because that is where the 2nd shooting happened. Why did he turn on Mt. Shasta if he didn't see the Buick there? EN knows he doesn't live on Mt. Shasta so what business would he have being there?

We don't know what he knew. For all we know he was doing the exact same thing as TM was said to be doing in being armed driving around the various streets out of fear of a threat to one's family. TM knows she doesn't live on Ducharme and BM says she was there actively looking for a car that she viewed as a threat, so did TM have no business being on Ducharme since she didn't live there, wasn't driving home and was looking for a threatening car?

 

[sonjay]

In all my years here on Websleuths, I never thought I'd see the day that an accused murderer would be defended as if he were the victim.

Yes, it's very strange. But the Meyerses were the original aggressors — they set out that night in search of a confrontation. EN did not; he was at the park minding his own business, and was stalked and chased by the Meyerses.

The Meyerses have turned everything upside down with their aggressive behavior and their lies.

 

[sonjay]

Ok so now the police are changing their stories.. lol I did read that and I questioned it, were there actually 24 shots fired, or were they quoting KK?

We don't know the answer to that question. I haven't seen any announcement that police have recovered more shell casings at the cul de sac — possibly they have found more and haven't announced it, or possibly they're simply going by what EN had said.

 

[sonjay]

And didn't the Myers live on a cul-de-sac? Why would he go into a cul-de-sac where he has to circle back around to get out?

Imo, he was at the cul-de-sac to do just what he said .......kill.

"He" (meaning EN) did not turn into a cul de sac. "He" was a passenger in the car. DA turned into the cul de sac. We don't know if DA knows that neighborhood very well at all. He may have thought that was where EN lived. Maybe EN said "turn left up ahead to get to my house" (meaning turn left on Cherry River) and DA thought he meant turn left on Mt. Shasta.

I've looked at a lot of Google street views of that neighborhood. There's a certain sameness to the streets and houses. It was about 11:30 at night. They had just been in a shootout. DA doesn't live in that neighborhood. It's very very easy to believe that the turn into Mt. Shasta was a wrong turn. Then suddenly — whoa! — there are those people who were chasing us! Look, there's one of them running to get more guns!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

"He" (meaning EN) did not turn into a cul de sac. "He" was a passenger in the car. DA turned into the cul de sac. We don't know if DA knows that neighborhood very well at all. He may have thought that was where EN lived. Maybe EN said "turn left up ahead to get to my house" (meaning turn left on Cherry River) and DA thought he meant turn left on Mt. Shasta.

I've looked at a lot of Google street views of that neighborhood. There's a certain sameness to the streets and houses. It was about 11:30 at night. They had just been in a shootout. DA doesn't live in that neighborhood. It's very very easy to believe that the turn into Mt. Shasta was a wrong turn. Then suddenly — whoa! — there are those people who were chasing us! Look, there's one of them running to get more guns!

Also Andrews lives 7 miles away, so it's not like there's a reason to see him as a neighbor familiar with all the streets where EN lives. Actually we don't even know that Andrews knew where EN lives - he most likely did, just we don't for a fact know it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"He" (meaning EN) did not turn into a cul de sac. "He" was a passenger in the car. DA turned into the cul de sac. We don't know if DA knows that neighborhood very well at all. He may have thought that was where EN lived. Maybe EN said "turn left up ahead to get to my house" (meaning turn left on Cherry River) and DA thought he meant turn left on Mt. Shasta.

I've looked at a lot of Google street views of that neighborhood. There's a certain sameness to the streets and houses. It was about 11:30 at night. They had just been in a shootout. DA doesn't live in that neighborhood. It's very very easy to believe that the turn into Mt. Shasta was a wrong turn. Then suddenly — whoa! — there are those people who were chasing us! Look, there's one of them running to get more guns!

Well it might as well of been him driving because they are equally guilty under the law no matter which one drove and which one was the shooter.

But EN does live in that neighborhood in fact very close by and I don't think EN is sitting there like a knot on a log and letting him go into a cul-de-sac for nothing.

I don't believe in coincidences in M1 cases. They just happen to coincidently come into THE cul-de-sac where the green car was and the Myers hadn't even had time to even get into their home yet? I think the shooter and driver saw the taillights of the green car and knew it went into the cul-de-sac. It is obvious EN was ready to fire and did even before either of the Myers could get into their home for protection.

I don't buy it and I seriously doubt the jury will either.

 

[sonjay]

Attempting murder does not mean you fire a gun. All the things listed by PD as proof of EN's premeditation were done by the Meyers as well, so if doing those acts listed is premeditation, that would mean that the Meyers premeditated just their plans failed, which having your plans go awry does not mean you didn't make plans. I'm not seeing that either of the Audi or the Buick premeditated, but if such things are premeditation it would also mean the Audi wasn't alone in premeditating murder.

IMO, based on a careful reading and thoughtful consideration of all the sworn testimony and physical evidence available to us so far, I believe that the Meyers' actions that night were a lot more premeditated than anything EN did.

TM went home and specifically got her armed son to go out with her. She drove around until she found a silver car. She pulled up behind that car and BM waved or pointed his gun out the window. Then they proceeded to chase that car.

Those actions all seem pretty premeditated to me.

What did EN do? First, he saw a car that he thought was people who were after him. (And it turns out he was right about that.) He called a friend to help him flee from that car. He waved his gun out the window to try to get the car to go away. They didn't. He and his friend in fact did flee from that car. The car pursued him. He fired his gun to stop the pursuit, then fled again.

He was trying to get home. (We know this from Mogg's testimony re: his direction to DA about going home.) He saw the green car passing almost right by his house. He was still trying to get home, when the person driving the car he was in turned into a cul de sac (for reasons currently unknown to us).

Then EN saw the green car again, right there in front of the car he was in. He thought -- perhaps wrongly, but probably reasonably -- that the person running was going to get more guns. After all, this green car had just been chasing him, and only backed off and stopped chasing after he actually fired at them. Seems very reasonable to me that he feared them. He knew they had a gun, and he thought they were going to get more guns. And he didn't know which of the people he saw already had guns in their possession. So he started shooting again.

Frankly, none of that seems premeditated. All of that is EN's reaction to the Meyerses; it's all his attempts to avoid confrontation, his attempt to get home, and ultimately his attempt to defend his own life against further attack by his pursuers.

If only the Meyerses hadn't aggressively gone out with a gun to hunt down, stalk and chase EN that night, TM would still be alive.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, it's very strange. But the Meyerses were the original aggressors — they set out that night in search of a confrontation. EN did not; he was at the park minding his own business, and was stalked and chased by the Meyerses.

The Meyerses have turned everything upside down with their aggressive behavior and their lies.

Who did they confront? I haven't seen anything about them confronting anyone. When did they come face to face with the driver and shooter to have a confrontation? Did they bump into EN/DAs vehicle? Did they try to come in front of them to stop them? Was EN&DA restrained by the Myers at any time so they couldn't freely go to the police or elsewhere?

What lies? ENs totally denial that he had nothing to do with it?

I would believe the Myers over a kid that tried to deny he committed the crime in the first place.

Him saying he sees the gun out the window doesn't even make sense. What was Brandon going to do? Throw it at him because he sure never shot his gun then even though EN blasted away. And then EN say he brandished his gun out the window. I think he super imposed his own action onto Brandon.

 

[sonjay]

Well it might as well of been him driving because they are equally guilty under the law no matter which one drove and which one was the shooter.

But EN does live in that neighborhood in fact very close by and I don't think EN is sitting there like a knot on a log and letting him go into a cul-de-sac for nothing.

I don't believe in coincidences in M1 cases. They just happen to coincidently come into THE cul-de-sac where the green car was and the Myers hadn't even had time to even get into their home yet? I think the shooter and driver saw the taillights of the green car and knew it went into the cul-de-sac. It is obvious EN was ready to fire and did even before either of the Myers could get into their home for protection.

I don't buy it and I seriously doubt the jury will either.

I don't believe in coincidences either.

Specifically, I don't believe that TM & KM were having driving lessons at the school, and a silver car road raged on their way home, and that after TM got her armed son into the car with her, that she coincidentally happened upon her neighbor in a silver car that coincidentally happened to be sitting there at the school where she and her daughter had coincidentally just had their driving lesson. And that TM coincidentally thought the car EN was in was the one that had road raged her, and that coincidentally EN happened to believe that some people were after him so that he was already frightened and ready to flee.

I don't buy it, and I seriously doubt the jury will either.

 

[sonjay]

Who did they confront? I haven't seen anything about them confronting anyone. When did they come face to face with the driver and shooter to have a confrontation? Did they bump into ENs vehicle? Did they try to come in front of them to stop them? Was EN&DA restrained my the Myers so they couldn't freely go to the police or elsewhere?

What lies? ENs totally denial that he had nothing to do with it?

I would believe the Myers over a kid that tried to deny he committed the crime in the first place.

Him saying he sees the gun out the window doesn't even make sense. What was Brandon going to do? Throw it at him because he sure never shot his gun then even though EN blasted away. And then EN say he brandished his gun out the window. I think he super imposed his own action onto Brandon.

Pulling up and stopping right behind a car and pointing your gun out the window at said car..... Then chasing that car when it flees. I consider that a confrontation.

The fact stands: The Meyerses set out that night looking for a confrontation, and when they found a silver car they initiated a confrontation. EN fled. Remember that: EN fled. EN fled, and the Meyerses chased.

 

[sonjay]

Who did they confront? I haven't seen anything about them confronting anyone. When did they come face to face with the driver and shooter to have a confrontation? Did they bump into EN/DAs vehicle? Did they try to come in front of them to stop them? Was EN&DA restrained by the Myers at any time so they couldn't freely go to the police or elsewhere?

What lies? ENs totally denial that he had nothing to do with it?

I would believe the Myers over a kid that tried to deny he committed the crime in the first place.

Him saying he sees the gun out the window doesn't even make sense. What was Brandon going to do? Throw it at him because he sure never shot his gun then even though EN blasted away. And then EN say he brandished his gun out the window. I think he super imposed his own action onto Brandon.

What lies? SRSLY?

Please go back and read the original news accounts of this shooting. Then read the accounts from Feb. 17th, Feb. 18th, Feb. 19th, and Feb. 20th. Then the accounts in March after the arrest affidavit was released. Then the accounts after the GJ testimony was released.

The Meyerses have done nothing but lie from day one.

EN first denied having anything to do with it, then came clean and told everything. So far, his account matches up with what he told ZA and KK, and also matches up with the physical evidence. There's every reason to believe that once he said "Okay. I'm going to tell you what happened. I'll tell you the truth" that he told the truth.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Well it might as well of been him driving because they are equally guilty under the law no matter which one drove and which one was the shooter.

They're both guilty provided that they both agreed to some plan and coordinated their actions. Doing something recklessly in the seconds after an armed provocation is not legal, but is not conspiracy to murder or attempted murder.

But EN does live in that neighborhood in fact very close by and I don't think EN is sitting there like a knot on a log and letting him go into a cul-de-sac for nothing.

So how do you know that EN for that matter didn't trick to the driver into making a wrong turn? You are saying both of them are equally guilty, so you have to demonstrate how they are both equally culpable. There is no actual proof that I'm aware of that the driver came to Ducharme for any reason other than to pick EN and EN doesn't say he told the driver to do anything besides go to his home.

I don't believe in coincidences in M1 cases. They just happen to coincidently come into THE cul-de-sac where the green car was and the Myers hadn't even had time to even get into their home yet?

So the Meyers chasing the Audi was not a coincidence but by design the Meyers were chasing Andrews' Audi with a gun?

I think the shooter and driver saw the taillights of the green car and knew it went into the cul-de-sac. It is obvious EN was ready to fire and did even before either of the Myers could get into their home for protection.

I agree that could have happened and if it did happen that way, it would establish some level of guilt lesser than M1. What I think was done was a reckless/passionate act in response to a provocation, which was not justifiable homicide but isn't M1 either. Some car has just chased you with a gun and is near your home and a few seconds later after the provocation you shoot them out of bare fear is not M1. But for the Meyers chasing the Buick with a gun, this would not have happened where the Buick impulsively killed someone a few seconds later in response to the armed chase.

I don't buy it and I seriously doubt the jury will either.

Not believing something and having something proven are two different things. Jurors can absolutely think someone is guilty of what they are charged with but acquit them of the charges because the prosecution failed to provide the evidence that the jurors beyond a mere opinion of theirs.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't believe in coincidences either.

Specifically, I don't believe that TM & KM were having driving lessons at the school, and a silver car road raged on their way home, and that after TM got her armed son into the car with her, that she coincidentally happened upon her neighbor in a silver car that coincidentally happened to be sitting there at the school where she and her daughter had coincidentally just had their driving lesson. And that TM coincidentally thought the car EN was in was the one that had road raged her, and that coincidentally EN happened to believe that some people were after him so that he was already frightened and ready to flee.

I don't buy it, and I seriously doubt the jury will either.

I have no reason to disbelieve the driving lessons occurred. Since the DA does believe it for all I know they may have camera footage of the green car going round and around in the parking lot which is consistent with giving driving lessons.

The road rage event is consistent to me. Now I know why the sketch does not look like either one of the murder suspects and why LE said it was no longer relevant to the murder case when they took it down iirc. It makes sense now why Kristal said the windows of the road rage car was not tinted and Brandon said the silver car with the occupants in it that began shooting at them and then hunted them down had tinted windows. Two different vehicles, imo.

I don't find anything odd about them thinking DAs car may have been the one who threatened them. There are many silver or gray cars on the road.

I don't understand what you mean about EN was ready to flee? When did he flee from the Myers? How can he want to flee and come right to their home like a homing pigeon?

The only thing I read in the GJ about fleeing was he told his friend that if the police were on to him he was going to live out of state in Arizona.

I don't think the jury will have one bit of trouble understanding what happened that night. Although the GJ is not nearly as extensive it was very clear to me what had occurred.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. It is sad to know that the Myers weren't even looking for EN or DA to begin with. If she had thought EN had been an occupant in the road rage car she knew he loitered in the park so she would have gone directly there to speak with him about it or gone directly to his home.

She had no way of knowing she was dealing with a paranoid violent murderous kid who thought people were out to get him who was planning to kill the occupants of the car behind him.

This kid would have murdered soon anyway, imo. He was already firing his weapon in the park. Shows he was trigger happy and irresponsible, imo. He was already putting knives to the throat of young girls. It was like he was going to use any excuse he could find so he could shoot his gun at someone hoping he killed them.

So I don't think the jury will have any trouble figuring this case out. It really isn't that complex. Once they find out he and DA continued to pursue the Myers when they fled and mowed Tammy Myers down right in front of her own home they will know he premeditated all of this starting with trying to shoot them at the first scene.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

IMO, based on a careful reading and thoughtful consideration of all the sworn testimony and physical evidence available to us so far, I believe that the Meyers' actions that night were a lot more premeditated than anything EN did.

TM went home and specifically got her armed son to go out with her. She drove around until she found a silver car. She pulled up behind that car and BM waved or pointed his gun out the window. Then they proceeded to chase that car.

Those actions all seem pretty premeditated to me.

I would say of the two groups if any group was premeditated it was the Buick as they were home parked for an indeterminate amount of time but it was long enough for TM to talk to KM about getting BM, KM talking to BM and BM getting ready and talking to TM before getting in the car and then they were on a route that took them some minutes before arriving on Ducharme - approximately 10 minutes between first arriving home and the Buick chasing the Audi. This is compared to the Buick where there was approximately a minute between the Audi being chased and the shooting on Mt Shasta. I think all involved acted recklessly/passionately rather than any of them possessing the cool thought process required for premeditation, but if any party did have a chance to cool off and deliberate, it was the Meyers who took their action against the Audi after a considerably longer time from the alleged provocation.

 

[sonjay]

I have no reason to disbelieve the driving lessons occurred. Since the DA does believe it for all I know they may have camera footage of the green car going round and around in the parking lot which is consistent with giving driving lessons.

The road rage event is consistent to me. Now I know why the sketch does not look like either one of the murder suspects and why LE said it was no longer relevant to the murder case when they took it down iirc. It makes sense now why Kristal said the windows of the road rage car was not tinted and Brandon said the silver car with the occupants in it that began shooting at them and then hunted them down had tinted windows. Two different vehicles, imo.

I don't find anything odd about them thinking DAs car may have been the one who threatened them. There are many silver or gray cars on the road.

And that's okay with you? It's just fine and dandy for TM & BM to go out with BM's gun and threaten and chase — not the car that road raged them, but a completely different car? RLY?

I don't understand what you mean about EN was ready to flee? When did he flee from the Myers? How can he want to flee and come right to their home like a homing pigeon?

He fled. Please read the arrest affidavit and the GJ transcript. The silver car fled and the green car chased it. Every single bit of the testimony from everyone is in agreement on that point.

This kid would have murdered soon anyway, imo. He was already firing his weapon in the park. Shows he was trigger happy and irresponsible, imo. He was already putting knives to the throat of young girls. It was like he was going to use any excuse he could find so he could shoot his gun at someone hoping he killed them.

So rumors are okay as long as they support your position? But sworn testimony before a grand jury that the silver car fled from the green car is insufficient to establish that the silver car fled? Okay.

So I don't think the jury will have any trouble figuring this case out. It really isn't that complex. Once they find out he and DA continued to pursue the Myers when they fled and mowed Tammy Myers down right in front of her own home they will know he premeditated all of this starting with trying to shoot them at the first scene.

This is a serious misinterpretation of the evidence. It has already been explained many times how and why this interpretation is incorrect. Simply repeating it over and over again does not and cannot make it true.

 

[sonjay]

I would say of the two groups if any group was premeditated it was the Buick as they were home parked for an indeterminate amount of time but it was long enough for TM to talk to KM about getting BM, KM talking to BM and BM getting ready and talking to TM before getting in the car and then they were on a route that took them some minutes before arriving on Ducharme - approximately 10 minutes between first arriving home and the Buick chasing the Audi. This is compared to the Buick where there was approximately a minute between the Audi being chased and the shooting on Mt Shasta. I think all involved acted recklessly/passionately rather than any of them possessing the cool thought process required for premeditation, but if any party did have a chance to cool off and deliberate, it was the Meyers who took their action against the Audi after a considerably longer time from the alleged provocation.

Yes, absolutely. If you believe the road rage story, then TM & KM escaped from the road rager and made it home safely and were in no danger. If you don't believe the road rage story, then they were simply safe at home and in no danger. In either case, TM deliberately got Brandon and his gun and they deliberately set out to look for another car to deliberately confront, threaten and chase.

EN, on the other hand, was reacting to a threat that suddenly came upon him. After the first shooting, in the heat of the moment when he saw the green car in the cul de sac, he may have misinterpreted the scene and wrongly thought that the running person was going to get more guns. But there's no evidence whatsoever that his reaction was premeditated or deliberate; at most, it was an immediate reaction based on fear for his life at that moment.

Frankly, I'm not convinced that it wasn't self-defense; he may have reasonably believed that BM was on his way to get more guns, and/or reasonably believed that the "heads in the car" had guns and were going to shoot him before the Audi could get out of there. I want to know more about what happened before I can draw any such conclusion, but I think it's possible.

 

[jayme1133]

Just found a post by Tammy's brother to those who trash the family:

https://www.facebook.com/KTNVLasVeg...7520000.1426973299./10152863187818802/?type=1

WOW! The brothers comment is very sad. Reading all the comments on here and other news stories I don't know how they will find 12 jurors to agree. It seems everyone wants the truth why such vile comments.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I would say of the two groups if any group was premeditated it was the Buick as they were home parked for an indeterminate amount of time but it was long enough for TM to talk to KM about getting BM, KM talking to BM and BM getting ready and talking to TM before getting in the car and then they were on a route that took them some minutes before arriving on Ducharme - approximately 10 minutes between first arriving home and the Buick chasing the Audi. This is compared to the Buick where there was approximately a minute between the Audi being chased and the shooting on Mt Shasta. I think all involved acted recklessly/passionately rather than any of them possessing the cool thought process required for premeditation, but if any party did have a chance to cool off and deliberate, it was the Meyers who took their action against the Audi after a considerably longer time from the alleged provocation.

Premeditation doesn't require cool thought. Premeditation can be formed in a short amount of time...even seconds. The jury will be instructed on that explaining it doesn't take long aforethought and planning for a murder to be premeditated. Of the cases I have followed for over three decades most wound up being M1 cases.

The premeditation became obvious when DA and EN hunted down the green car after it had fled. They weren't coming there to have tea and cookies with the Myers. All EN had to do is formulate the thought that he was planning on killing whomever was in the green car when he located them and that is exactly what he did and tried to murder BM too by his own admission. His admissions of he 'killed those kids' will be critical to this case. That shows that was his premeditated intentions all along.

I have seen many cases of premeditated murder proved in court by the state because the defendant shot multiple times at the victim. It is the repetitive actions of the defendant that showed they did not stop with one shot or one stab, but continually repeated using the murder weapon over, and over again to achieve their premeditated objective of killing the person (s) or wanting to cause serious bodily harm.

And here we have the main murder suspect admitting he fired his weapon over 22 times. By firing his weapon repeatedly he meant for the victims to be hit, seriously injured or dead. Any reasonable person would know that if one shoots multiple times (22) toward a human being that death or serious injury would occur. EN knew this too and that is why he did it.

And tragically the one he murdered in cold blood didn't even have a weapon and had no way to defend herself. And she nor Brandon was 'the kids' he thought had been after him which I find to be more paranoia than reality on his part. Even his friends said he was paranoid.

 

[sonjay]

WOW! The brothers comment is very sad. Reading all the comments on here and other news stories I don't know how they will find 12 jurors to agree. It seems everyone wants the truth why such vile comments.

I feel sorry for TM's brother and other family members. It's never easy to lose a loved one.

But their feelings can't be used as a bludgeon to stop the truth from coming out. The truth about what happened must be revealed. Sadly, TM's own children have lied and covered up and made it very difficult to discern the truth.