GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #6

[SStarr33]

I've not been following this case closely, and don't have time to search all these threads, so please indulge me a question that may have been addressed repeatedly already. Brandon said he shoved Tammy in the car and shut the door, then hid behind the truck. Has any explanation been offered as to why she was out of the vehicle when she was shot? And did the shot enter her head from the front or the back?

Thanks in advance.

My guess is she was trying to go to protect her children. Sadly Erich Nowsch was on a murderous rampage and out for blood and there was no way he was going to retreat.

 

[SStarr33]

That's what Brandon said. He has huge credibility problems. I find it odd that in the GJ testimony, Mogg testified as to the location of the spent bullets at the first shooting scene but not at the second scene.

LOL, there is no advantage to Brandon saying they started shooting when they were halfway down the street. There is more of a self defense advantage for him to say they were right at the house. And since he confessed to his friends that he was following them, it all makes sense.

 

[sonjay]

That's what Brandon said. He has huge credibility problems. I find it odd that in the GJ testimony, Mogg testified as to the location of the spent bullets at the first shooting scene but not at the second scene.

Yes, Brandon & KM both have huge credibility problems.

Even without all the additional changes in their stories, just the fact that they completely left out the part about BM taking his gun and getting in the car with TM to go find, threaten and chase EN creates such a huge credibility problem that I can't accept at face value anything that either one of them says.

They lied big-time. We know they lied. They tried to conceal the fact that TM & BM were out with a gun hunting for their target!

The police found the shell casings in the cul de sac in specific locations. Police have elected not to reveal the information yet on exactly where those casings were found, but that will definitely come out at trial. The locations of the shells casings will reveal a lot about where the silver car was when EN fired — halfway down the street or fully in the cul de sac.

We've also not had any updates on any additional shell casings they may have found since the arrest affidavit was written on Feb. 19. In the arrest affidavit they found seven .45 shell casings. But now they're saying they believe EN fired in the cul de sac as many as 24 times. We don't know at this point whether they're basing that on what EN told them, or whether they've found more .45 casings in the cul de sac. I haven't heard anything about police out there combing the cul de sac for more casings, so I tend to think they're basing that on EN's statement.

Except EN said he fired 22 times in the cul de sac, not 24. So.... I dunno where they got 24 from. Maybe he said he had 3 10-round magazines that he emptied. Six on Villa Monterey would leave 24 for the cul de sac. The Ruger SR45 comes with 10-round magazines.

I find the reports of EN's various statements to be largely credible, but I have my doubts about the number of shots he fired. I think that might be a bit of braggadocio, or maybe to him it felt like that many. He would have had to have changed magazines twice in the cul de sac. You're going to tell me that BM only managed to get off 3 shots while EN fired 22 times and changed magazines twice? I have trouble with that scenario.

 

[sonjay]

You're going to tell me that BM only managed to get off 3 shots while EN fired 22 times and changed magazines twice? I have trouble with that scenario.

I wonder if maybe TM had the gun at that point? She got out of the car to shoot at the silver car. BM was over in the driveway hiding behind the truck. TM got shot; she couldn't fire back. BM had no gun. When the shooting ended, BM ran over to his mother, grabbed the gun, and shot at the silver car 3 times as it fled.

Or, alternatively, TM had the gun, got out of the car and started shooting at the silver car as it approached, which then returned fire. TM got off 3 shots before she was hit. BM was over behind the truck without a gun. When the shooting ended, he ran to his mom, but he never did shoot at the silver car, because he was focused on mom lying there near death.

Didn't we see a report somewhere at some point that TM told BM to run over and get behind the truck? BM's official story in the GJ transcript is that he was trying to get her out of the car; when the silver car car started approached, he pushed her back into the car and ran to the truck. But what if that report we saw was correct and she did tell him to run and go hide behind the truck? That would make sense if she was the one holding the gun at that time; she had this self-image of herself as mama bear protecting her cubs, so she stayed out there to shoot at the silver car while her cub runs and hides.

This is all speculation: JMO, IMO, MOO and all that jazz.

 

[BellaVita]

I wonder if maybe TM had the gun at that point? She got out of the car to shoot at the silver car. BM was over in the driveway hiding behind the truck. TM got shot; she couldn't fire back. BM had no gun. When the shooting ended, BM ran over to his mother, grabbed the gun, and shot at the silver car 3 times as it fled.

Or, alternatively, TM had the gun, got out of the car and started shooting at the silver car as it approached, which then returned fire. TM got off 3 shots before she was hit. BM was over behind the truck without a gun. When the shooting ended, he ran to his mom, but he never did shoot at the silver car, because he was focused on mom lying there near death.

Didn't we see a report somewhere at some point that TM told BM to run over and get behind the truck? BM's official story in the GJ transcript is that he was trying to get her out of the car; when the silver car car started approached, he pushed her back into the car and ran to the truck. But what if that report we saw was correct and she did tell him to run and go hide behind the truck? That would make sense if she was the one holding the gun at that time; she had this self-image of herself as mama bear protecting her cubs, so she stayed out there to shoot at the silver car while her cub runs and hides.

This is all speculation: JMO, IMO, MOO and all that jazz.

.
This is why the GSR tests are important.

 

[SStarr33]

.
This is why the GSR tests are important.

Shell casings are near the truck, not next to the car where Tammy was slaughtered.

What else can I debunk?

 

[BellaVita]

LOL, there is no advantage to Brandon saying they started shooting when they were halfway down the street. There is more of a self defense advantage for him to say they were right at the house. And since he confessed to his friends that he was following them, it all makes sense.

It is a disadvantage for EN. I don't think BM is concerned about the self-defense angle as it relates to himself. I don't care that BM fired his gun. I would have as well but then again, I'd never have found myself in that position in the first place. I would have been home still playing xbox. Or sleeping depending on current incarnation of my story. The shell casing locations will tell that part of the story. Perhaps that part of BM's story is accurate. TBD.

 

[BellaVita]

Shell casings are near the truck, not next to the car where Tammy was slaughtered.

What else can I debunk?

You are correct.

 

[sonjay]

You are correct.

Looking again at the GJ testimony. The cartridge casings were to the left rear of the pickup truck. The pickup truck was in the driveway?

If TM pulled the Buick straight to the end of the cul de sac, got out, faced east toward where the silver car was approaching, and fired a gun, the cartridge casings would eject out to her right toward .... the left rear of the pickup truck. Hmmmm.......

 

[BellaVita]

Looking again at the GJ testimony. The cartridge casings were to the left rear of the pickup truck. The pickup truck was in the driveway?

If TM pulled the Buick straight to the end of the cul de sac, got out, faced east toward where the silver car was approaching, and fired a gun, the cartridge casings would eject out to her right toward .... the left rear of the pickup truck. Hmmmm.......

Maybe my first instinct was right after all. I don't find this scenario probable but it seems to be possible.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Looking again at the GJ testimony. The cartridge casings were to the left rear of the pickup truck. The pickup truck was in the driveway?

If TM pulled the Buick straight to the end of the cul de sac, got out, faced east toward where the silver car was approaching, and fired a gun, the cartridge casings would eject out to her right toward .... the left rear of the pickup truck. Hmmmm.......

How do you know which direction the casings would travel when ejected? In my personal experience with firearms, some eject straight up, left, right, forward or backwards. It depends on the model of gun. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Pretty sure if it is prefaced with "in my personal experience," it does not require a link, but hopefully a moderator will clarify this for us if it does.

I'm saying the statement "they typically eject to the right of the shooter" is not very clear.

Sounds like she's saying all guns and I don't think that is true. What's relavant to this case is which direction the guns used that night eject the empty cases. They both could eject to the right. Or maybe they don't. Links showing the exact model of gun used and which direction they eject casings would make things factual.

JMO.

 

[SStarr33]

In trying to continue to sleuth this case and not make up wild stories, I have been attempting to find photos of circles painted on Mt Shasta like they said they painted in the other location where the casings were found. The only thing I have found so far are the markers in this video

http://www.onenewspage.com/video/20150218/2566549/Police-reveal-new-details-in-shooting-death-of.htm

which, for all I know, could be from another scene and just used as filler. Also, I might be seeing circles in this video, but not sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC9pSyadb74

 

[BellaVita]

I feel like I've noticed something very interesting. I wish the arrest complaint would let me copy and paste, but I can't.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/0...5F02612X-declaration-&-complaint_Redacted.pdf

It states that TM took over the driving at 22:50 just prior to the road rage incident. The fatal shooting took place at 11:22. That is a long gap-32 minutes in all. All locations were in close proximity. What events took place during that long time-frame? If there was truly a two-part event, TM was at the house a long time before heading back out with BM. IMO.

 

[SStarr33]

<snipped picture for space>
BBM;

I am totally baffled here. I have not seen any reports that state TM ever had a gun or fired any rounds. I knew she was driving but didn't know she got out the driver's side and shot toward the silver car. In fact last I remember there was no definitive answer as to whether she was inside or outside the car.

What did I miss?

:cow:

The desperate defense attorney trying to find something to get his murderous client off.

 

[BellaVita]

In trying to continue to sleuth this case and not make up wild stories, I have been attempting to find photos of circles painted on Mt Shasta like they said they painted in the other location where the casings were found. The only thing I have found so far are the markers in this video

http://www.onenewspage.com/video/20150218/2566549/Police-reveal-new-details-in-shooting-death-of.htm

which, for all I know, could be from another scene and just used as filler. Also, I might be seeing circles in this video, but not sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC9pSyadb74

Thanks for that. Was looking for that info myself.

 

[SeeAlice]

I'm saying the statement "they typically eject to the right of the shooter" is not very clear.

Sounds like she's saying all guns and I don't think that is true. What's relavant to this case is which direction the guns used that night eject the empty cases. They both could eject to the right. Or maybe they don't. Links showing the exact model of gun used and which direction they eject casings would make things factual.

JMO.

My apologies for any confusion caused by me adding a link after you read my post.

It appears Sonjay's personal experience using firearms was right on the mark. (Pardon the pun.) I would have said the same thing based on common sense regarding basic knowledge of firearms and, as the study's authors note, the oft-quoted opinion that casings usually eject to the shooter's right side.

As it turns out, it is a guess, but not "just guessing." It is an educated guess based on empirical evidence and staristical probability. Oh, and on Sonjay's personal experience using firearms (which I'm willing to bet exceeds yours and mine.)

 

[PaperDoll]

http://www.mynews3.com/media/lib/166/1/8/3/183997e6-0122-44f7-99b5-c23203a0e717/030515Nowsch.pdf
So they turned around and they came
back and he said "I know a left turn, a shortcut to get
to my house," something to that effect. They come back
into the cul-de-sac on Mount Shasta where the victim was
shot. He says as they pull into the cul-de-sac, again
he's sitting in the passenger seat of the vehicle, their
vehicle kind of turns sideways is how he draws it, he
sees the victim's vehicle at the end of the cul-de-sac

Mt. Shasta was just a means to getting somewhere else. That's what I believe. It was a cul de sac so no outlet. DA was in the process of turning around and getting out of there when they happened to spot the Buick. I find EN to be credible to a large degree and I see nothing in this testimony to indicate they were hunting the Buick. I think if EN had told lies, he could have helped himself a lot more.

Here is how I see, and I understand people view the GJ Transcript the way they want Per Mogg: after the 1st shootout the Audi drove Westbound on Alta towards Cimarron and according to Mogg and myself, the Buick and Audi were driving the same direction but on different streets. Then EN says "I can't believe this is happening, I can't believe this is happened" and in the next sentence Mogg says EN described how he saw the Buick coming down the street. This is when EN was still driving Westbound on Alta

The only way EN could have seen the Buick driving was if he looked, still going Westbound towards Cimarron, up Carmel Peak because Mt. Shasta is off Carmel Peak, that is the only way into Mt. Shasta. So EN turns around (the short cut) and heads back to Carmel Peak, then makes a left on Mt. Shasta. The very last part I bolded, IMO, was Mogg still describing how EN saw the Buick turning onto Mt. Shasta and said to the driver to turn around I know a short cut because they were still heading Westbound on Alta towards Cimarron. The short cut is, again, not taking Cimarron but taking Alta/Carmel Peak/Mt. Shasta, OR, to Cherry River. Had they taken Cimarron it would have been a longer drive, not by much but though but still longer.


he and the other male drove westbound on
Alta towards Cimarron. He said as he was driving
westbound with the other male, he says "No, this can't
be happening, this can't be happening." And he
describes how the car was coming, the green car the
victim was in, was coming down the street. And based on
my knowledge of the scene, the location of the victim's
residence, the location of his residence where he would
have been at approximately the time that the victim was
driving westbound on Cherry River, basically paralleling
him to try to get home, he would have seen that car
coming down from Cherry River onto Carmel Peak probably
prior to or just as it turned into the Mount Shasta
cul-de-sac. He said they continued westbound and he
said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his
house. His house is further to the west on Cherry River
than Carmel Peak.

So they turned around and they came
back and he said "I know a left turn, a shortcut to get
to my house," something to that effect. They come back
into the cul-de-sac on Mount Shasta where the victim was
shot. He says as they pull into the cul-de-sac, again
he's sitting in the passenger seat of the vehicle, their
vehicle kind of turns sideways is how he draws it, he
sees the victim's vehicle at the end of the cul-de-sac
with the driver door open and he sees someone running
whom he

 

[sorrell skye]

I read these statements about the Ruger .45 and how many shots Nowsch claimed he fired at the Meryers. From the Grand Jury transcript.

If Nowsch did fire 20 to 24 shots during the final confrontation he would have had to reload at least once possibly twice. I would like to know the exact model of Ruger .45 to have a better idea on reloads. Some models have 7,8 or 10 shot magazines. There's even an aftermarket 15 shot extended magazine available for one model Ruger .45.

Reloading shows me that Nowsch was calm enough to accomplish that task and was trying very hard to hit his intended targets. Goes to the state of mind in my opinion.

JMO.


http://www.mynews3.com/media/lib/16...717/030515Nowsch.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-14,792

BBM

I agree, Ranch. IMO, the fact that EN reloaded another clip (and then continued to fire) demonstrates premeditation to murder.

 

[BellaVita]

BBM

I agree, Ranch. IMO, the fact that EN reloaded another clip (and then continued to fire) demonstrates premeditation to murder.

I don't see how the mere act of loading the gun is premeditation in a legal sense. EN had already been followed, chased and, IMO and according to his statement, seen a gun flashed at him. He perceived a threat and wanted to be prepared. He didn't know if, where or when the Buick could possibly be lying in wait. I think it was smart to load the gun and I think BM would have been smart to load HIS gun before hunting down the ALLEGED road rager. He waited to load it until he was in dire straits. He was supposedly going to track down and confront a person who'd threatened violence toward TM and KM. Loading the gun BEFORE you are panicked and desperate is just prudent.