GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #7

[Snoods]

Someone close to me had a traumatic childhood, followed by combat duty in the war. He doesn't need to be locked up in the 'funny farm' but I can pretty much guarantee that if two people were hunting him down and chasing him around with a gun, things wouldn't end well. He does fine going about his daily business and even in stressful situations but being chased on the road with a gun would push him over the edge, as it may well do with people without a history of abuse and trauma.

Hmm you make a valid and interesting point. I could very well see this being used as part of his defense.

 

[sonjay]

That would mean there was at least 3 people in the car, which the Meyers have never admitted to and would be a reason for them to get out of the car and into the house slower.

I don't think so. Unless one of the 3 is crippled or something, 3 could get out of the car just as fast as two. It's not like they have to wait for each other and only get out one at a time, or something.

ETA: It's a four-door car, not a two-door. No reason for 3 people to be slower getting out of a four-door car.

 

[sonjay]

And how crazy would that be after having been shot at already?????????

That would be pretty crazy. And we know there were some crazy things being done that night.

 

[PaperDoll]

Well, in fact, they did follow it initially, so i guess they did want to get into a gun battle with it.

If they didn't stay outside to wait for the Audi, then the Audi had to have gone north on Carmel Peak then left onto Mt. Shasta. Any route that has the Audi going north on Cimarron to Cherry River and then south on Carmel Peak would have given TM & BM time to get into the house.

Which brings us back to: What's the deal with the car on Cherry River? It couldn't have been the Audi EN was in.

But they didn't get in a gun battle with the Audi because they never fired shots and I believe if they really wanted to they would have even if they did chase them the 1st time. They fired 3 at the 2nd shooting while they were on their own property knowing the Audi had a loaded gun and wasn't afraid to use it.

Yup, I believe the Audi went north on Carmel Peak to get to Mt. Shasta.

 

[BellaVita]

I understand that EN never said he saw the Buick but IMO it makes sense what Mogg said. I believe that from the 1st shooting to the 2nd, that it took 30 to 45 seconds, if that. I also don't believe the Audi took a wrong turn on Mt. Shasta, I believe EN knows his own neighborhood and I do not believe the Audi driver mistook Mt. Shasta for Cherry River. As far as driving past EN house, I'm not sure what he meant when he said that but I'm thinking he though the Buick passed his house. I do not believe the Audi was going to make a complete turn on Mt. Shasta, I believe they positioned the car so EN could shoot his weapon. Mt. Shasta is a very small cul-de-sac, when they spotted the Buick, they could have backed out quickly and took off but they didn't. Instead EN saw someone running from the car into the house and opened fire. He said he saw heads in the car and started shooting at them as well.

I understand you believe that the Audi finding itself on Shasta was no accident. You could well be correct. It is just not what I'm leaning toward at this point. The Audi driver may or may not have mistaken Shasta for Cherry River, IMO. In my scenario, I don't believe the Audi went specifically to Shasta in order to shoot. Yes, they could have backed out but when EN spotted "heads" and someone running, he didn't feel the event was over. IMO. I'm not saying his perception was correct, but that was his perception. He thought the people who'd chased him were going to get more "straps". FWIW, DA lived 7 miles from EN. Not sure how familiar he was with all the streets there and in a life and death situation was probably not functioning with a clear head. IMO.

BBM: As well as EN may have known his neighborhood, I don't know why he'd think the Buick had passed his house because it is further west on Cherry River than Carmel. If the M's and possibly CCTV are to be believed, then the M's route would not have taken them past EN's house. It was unclear from the GJ what EN was referring to when Mogg said: "they continued westbound and he
said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his
house." It is unclear from Mogg's testimony whether "they" refers to the Audi or the Buick.

 

[PaperDoll]

That would mean there was at least 3 people in the car, which the Meyers have never admitted to and would be a reason for them to get out of the car and into the house slower.

EN did say "heads" so I'm not sure what to believe at this point. But why would the Meyers lie about having 3 people in the car? Why not admit there were 3? And no, I don't think it would take longer for 3 people to get out of a 4 door sedan; there was the driver, the passenger and if there was another person in the car I would think they would be in the back seat so each passenger, and the driver, have a door of their own to get out of.

 

[Miss Muffet]

BBM, In the GJ testimony BM says it at least twice that the headlights were coming down rather than up. The map would have had to have been flipped coming down to mean going up. This is his direct testimony rather than what was in the warrant was someone summarizing it, so they could have left off the word 'from,' but when we have his words directly in the GJ testimony it's only 'coming down.'

Up and down aren't used by everyone to indicate north and south. Some people say down-the-street regardless of the compass direction. I envision the Meyers' kids to not be directionally aware people.

Fun fact: My region's steep terrain dictates up and down depend on which direction a car is heading on a hill because 98% of our streets have hills. We tell newcomers to head downhill if they get lost because downhill eventually leads to a main highway. People accustom to grid road systems have a difficult time driving around here.

 

[BellaVita]

EN did say "heads" so I'm not sure what to believe at this point. But why would the Meyers lie about having 3 people in the car? Why not admit there were 3? And no, I don't think it would take longer for 3 people to get out of a 4 door sedan; there was the driver, the passenger and if there was another person in the car I would think they would be in the back seat so each passenger, and the driver, have a door of their own to get out of.

We don't know the reason for ANY of their lies.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Well, in fact, they did follow it initially, so i guess they did want to get into a gun battle with it.

If they didn't stay outside to wait for the Audi, then the Audi had to have gone north on Carmel Peak then left onto Mt. Shasta. Any route that has the Audi going north on Cimarron to Cherry River and then south on Carmel Peak would have given TM & BM time to get into the house.

Which brings us back to: What's the deal with the car on Cherry River? It couldn't have been the Audi EN was in.

If the road rage story was true, it would have been in character for TM to stand outside for minutes at a time while her life was in mortal danger. If we are to believe what happened TM stood outside for like 10 minutes while under imminent peril as she got BM and his gun, so if she was outside for 20 seconds the second time that would have been minor by comparison.

If that car wasn't the Audi EN was in, Mogg and the DA are going to really dread cross-examination. Mogg in particular would take it hard given how that he personally testified the extent of his investigation into EN being threatened and basically said he was crazy, but if you've got a video showing people shining a spotlight around EN's house and you falsely identify them as EN that's not going to end well. The defense would just love to get LE to admit they bungled the investigation by misidentifying the wrong person in the wrong car combined already with the wrong sketch of the shooter would just be a trifecta.

 

[sonjay]

EN did say "heads" so I'm not sure what to believe at this point. But why would the Meyers lie about having 3 people in the car? Why not admit there were 3? And no, I don't think it would take longer for 3 people to get out of a 4 door sedan; there was the driver, the passenger and if there was another person in the car I would think they would be in the back seat so each passenger, and the driver, have a door of their own to get out of.

Why would they lie initially and say the road rager followed them home and shot TM?

What was so important to conceal that they felt the need to lie to police about the circumstances surrounding the shooting of their mother?

 

[PaperDoll]

I understand you believe that the Audi finding itself on Shasta was no accident. You could well be correct. It is just not what I'm leaning toward at this point. The Audi driver may or may not have mistaken Shasta for Cherry River, IMO. In my scenario, I don't believe the Audi went specifically to Shasta in order to shoot. Yes, they could have backed out but when EN spotted "heads" and someone running, he didn't feel the event was over. IMO. I'm not saying his perception was correct, but that was his perception. He thought the people who'd chased him were going to get more "straps". FWIW, DA lived 7 miles from EN. Not sure how familiar he was with all the streets there and in a life and death situation was probably not functioning with a clear head. IMO.

BBM: As well as EN may have known his neighborhood, I don't know why he'd think the Buick had passed his house because it is further west on Cherry River than Carmel. If the M's and possibly CCTV are to be believed, then the M's route would not have taken them past EN's house. It was unclear from the GJ what EN was referring to when Mogg said: "they continued westbound and he
said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his
house." It is unclear from Mogg's testimony whether "they" refers to the Audi or the Buick.

BBM: Yes, it is unclear Why would Mogg say, and I believe him, that the Audi could have spotted the Buick turning on Mt. Shasta, after all he drove that area to investigate, I, too, drove it so I can see how EN looked up/down (lol) Carmel Peak. IIRC EN said after he fired at the 1st shooting that the Buick backed up and went down the street so I'm sure once the Audi left the scene on Alta, he looked on Carmel Peak to see if he could spot the Buick and he did. MOO! :crazy:

 

[Miss Muffet]

Good point about the paternal suicide connection, perhaps they met in some kind of support group that they were both involved with?

I have wondered where they met. There's a 7 year age difference, and that's huge when a 19 year old is involved. They live in different school districts. I initially thought maybe in jail, but EN would have been a juvie if he had a criminal record when DA was in jail. Then I thought maybe via the rap music studio, but I don't see any indication that's one of DA's hobbies. It has to be the drugs. They probably met at parties via mutual friends.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

As well as EN may have known his neighborhood, I don't know why he'd think the Buick had passed his house because it is further west on Cherry River than Carmel. If the M's and possibly CCTV are to be believed, then the M's route would not have taken them past EN's house. It was unclear from the GJ what EN was referring to when Mogg said: "they continued westbound and he
said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his
house." It is unclear from Mogg's testimony whether "they" refers to the Audi or the Buick.

If the last EN knew from Villa Monterey was that the Buick was going westbound from there on Cherry River, the Buick would be going towards his home. It's Mogg's supposition that EN saw them on Carmel Peak, but if Mogg is wrong and the last place EN saw them before the U-turn was at the time of the shootout, then it would be logical for EN to assume the Buick might be going to his home.

 

[jjenny]

I have wondered where they met. There's a 7 year age difference, and that's huge when a 19 year old is involved. They live in different school districts. I initially thought maybe in jail, but EN would have been a juvie if he had a criminal record when DA was in jail. Then I thought maybe via the rap music studio, but I don't see any indication that's one of DA's hobbies. It has to be the drugs. They probably met at parties via mutual friends.

EN seems to meet a lot of people because of his alleged occupation.

 

[PaperDoll]

Why would they lie initially and say the road rager followed them home and shot TM?

What was so important to conceal that they felt the need to lie to police about the circumstances surrounding the shooting of their mother?

First off we don't have all the facts in this case, we haven't even seen the police report that was taken that night, once I see that, then I can make up my mind on what happened but for now all I have is the GJ Testimony and the police report that we all have available to us. When I read that I don't see much lying going on. I can't go by what the news is saying because I don't think they have all the facts.

Sometime last year we had a home invasion not too far from where we live, and the police gave their statement to the news but couldn't give much detail because they didn't have all the details. The neighbors wanted to know if this was random act or not, and the police said they thought the homeowner who was shot and killed didn't know the men who broke into their homes. Later in the week the story changed because the police were able to investigate it further.

 

[sonjay]

If the road rage story was true, it would have been in character for TM to stand outside for minutes at a time while her life was in mortal danger. If we are to believe what happened TM stood outside for like 10 minutes while under imminent peril as she got BM and his gun, so if she was outside for 20 seconds the second time that would have been minor by comparison.

If that car wasn't the Audi EN was in, Mogg and the DA are going to really dread cross-examination. Mogg in particular would take it hard given how that he personally testified the extent of his investigation into EN being threatened and basically said he was crazy, but if you've got a video showing people shining a spotlight around EN's house and you falsely identify them as EN that's not going to end well. The defense would just love to get LE to admit they bungled the investigation by misidentifying the wrong person in the wrong car combined already with the wrong sketch of the shooter would just be a trifecta.

And if it was the car EN was in, then how are they going to explain why the Meyerses weren't safe and sound inside their house by the time the Audi got to the cul de sac?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

EN did say "heads" so I'm not sure what to believe at this point. But why would the Meyers lie about having 3 people in the car? Why not admit there were 3?

For the same reason they lied about BM going out at all. If you've now got three or more people out on the prowl, it is all the harder to explain. It's been difficult for them to explain with only two people in the car and it would only be worse if there were more, with each having to testify and keep their story straight. With only BM in the car, he's the only one who has to keep the story straight as he's the only one telling the story. If the road rage story is to be believed - or even if it isn't - if you're going out with muscle (BM with a gun), having more muscle in the car in preparation for a possibly violent confrontation is better than having less muscle. If I had it my mind to confront someone who was threatening me mortally or if I was going to threaten someone mortally, I would not skimp on muscle backing me up. By all accounts this was a voluntary confrontation by TM, so if she wanted more people backing her up, she could get them as by admission she choose BM rather than him just happening to be in the car at the time.

 

[PaperDoll]

If the last EN knew from Villa Monterey was that the Buick was going westbound from there on Cherry River, the Buick would be going towards his home. It's Mogg's supposition that EN saw them on Carmel Peak, but if Mogg is wrong and the last place EN saw them before the U-turn was at the time of the shootout, then it would be logical for EN to assume the Buick might be going to his home.

I know what you are saying, he could have thought that but I still believe Mogg is correct, after all Mogg is the one who talked to EN and may have picked things up that wasn't brought out at the GJ. Also EN never went to his home, not even to check to see if his mom, baby sister and cat were all ok. Instead he had the Audi driver drop him off at a friends and switch cars. If he were that concerned about his family, he should have stopped at his house. I wonder if he even called his mom that night after the shooting?

 

[sonjay]

First off we don't have all the facts in this case, we haven't even seen the police report that was taken that night, once I see that, then I can make up my mind on what happened but for now all I have is the GJ Testimony and the police report that we all have available to us. When I read that I don't see much lying going on. I can't go by what the news is saying because I don't think they have all the facts.

Sometime last year we had a home invasion not too far from where we live, and the police gave their statement to the news but couldn't give much detail because they didn't have all the details. The neighbors wanted to know if this was random act or not, and the police said they thought the homeowner who was shot and killed didn't know the men who broke into their homes. Later in the week the story changed because the police were able to investigate it further.

We have the initial police news releases, in which they reported that there was a road rager who followed TM & KM home and shot TM, and that BM came out of the house and returned fire.

Fact is, the Meyerses lied about that. They lied about it for 5 days after the shooting.

Why?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I have wondered where they met. There's a 7 year age difference, and that's huge when a 19 year old is involved. They live in different school districts. I initially thought maybe in jail, but EN would have been a juvie if he had a criminal record when DA was in jail. Then I thought maybe via the rap music studio, but I don't see any indication that's one of DA's hobbies. It has to be the drugs. They probably met at parties via mutual friends.

An interesting thought crossed my mind in that Andrews desire to speak as well as going crazy could be a result of going from Xanax to solitary.