GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #8

[sonjay]

top of BrM's mag in LE pix looks a lot like mag below -- w a notch that lets us see a second cartridge in mag.
To see notch in BrM's mag, on my tablet, I enlarged LE pix to about 8" x 12". .

I do believe you're right. When I enlarged and lightened that pic, I can clearly see that notch, and you're right, there's no second cartridge.

I took a couple a magazines that I have (for different guns) and propped them at approx. the same angle, and I couldn't see anything more than the top cartridge. That's what I based my earlier comment on.

But this one definitely has a notch that would allow us to see if there were more cartridges.

So it appears that BM probably had only 6 rounds on him that night. If the loose round lying on the mag is the round from the chamber, then he shot three, had two left in his gun, and one in the passenger seat -- that's six. That would be my guess.

If the loose round lying on the mag is the round from the passenger seat, then I dunno where the round from the chamber is, unless it's still in the gun.

This is assuming that LE didn't remove all the cartridges but one for the pic. I'm not saying they did that, and I can't think of any reason they would do that. But the picture itself appears staged to me. I'm not sure what evidentiary value it would have like that. But if they staged it like that for some reason, they may have removed additional rounds before taking the pic. Just a thought that I'm throwing out there.

 

[sonjay]

Why weren't twenty-two 45 shell casings found on Mt Shasta Circle?

The prosecution keeps saying that EN fired 22 times (or 24 times) on Mt. Shasta — presumably based on EN's statement that he fired that many times. But the diagram only shows seven .45 casings, and in the arrest affidavit they said they found seven .45 casings.

I would think they would only say, publicly, that they believe he fired "at least seven times."

Personally, I have trouble believing that EN changed magazines 2 times. I think he wildly exaggerated that. I can't see the silver car sitting there for that long. I can't see BM firing only 3 rounds while EN fired 22 times including 2 magazine changes. The neighbor that reported hearing gunshots didn't seem to report hearing anywhere near that many.

It's a mystery.

 

[jjenny]

There were two shooting scenes. 24 or 22 shots is total number of shots fired by EN.
Not on the cul de sac only.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Shouldn't there be a magazine in BM's handgun in addition to the magazine in the picture on the floor of the Buick?

 

[sonjay]

Shouldn't there be a magazine in BM's handgun in addition to the magazine in the picture on the floor of the Buick?

Not if the magazine in the picture was removed from the gun. The bottom of the handgrip of the gun is clearly shown in the picture, and clearly does not have a magazine in it.

 

[sonjay]

There were two shooting scenes. 24 or 22 shots is total number of shots fired by EN.
Not on the cul de sac only.

"Andrews is accused of positioning his car so Nowsch could unload what Stanton said police now believe to have been 24 shots at Tammy and Brandon Meyers."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/20/tammy-meyers-killing-second-suspect_n_6912394.html

The arrest affidavit says LE found 6 spent .45 casings on Villa Monterey and 7 on Mt. Shasta.

6+7 = 13

6+7 != 22 or 24

 

[PaperDoll]

Why weren't twenty-two 45 shell casings found on Mt Shasta Circle?

I think EN exaggerated per KK's testimony to the GJ.
Q. No. And he says that he fires 22 times?
A. Yes.
Q. At that time you thought he was
exaggerating?
A. Very much so.

 

[PaperDoll]

There were two shooting scenes. 24 or 22 shots is total number of shots fired by EN.
Not on the cul de sac only.

There were 6 expended cartridge casings found on Villa Monterey/Alta, and 7 on Mt. Shasta, that is a total of 13 and one bullet with blood was also found.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Not if the magazine in the picture was removed from the gun. The bottom of the handgrip of the gun is clearly shown in the picture, and clearly does not have a magazine in it.

Are you suggesting he went back to the passenger side of the Buick and removed the magazine from the gun after shooting at the Audi and before police arrived? Why would BM remove it from the gun? When would he have time? I mean, he was standing between the car and truck firing his gun. Why would he remove it at the passenger side of the car when he should be attending to TM bleeding at the driver's side of the car? Why didn't this cause LE to go hmmm...?

 

[sonjay]

Are you suggesting he went back to the passenger side of the Buick and removed the magazine from the gun after shooting at the Audi and before police arrived? Why would BM remove it from the gun? When would he have time? I mean, he was standing between the car and truck firing his gun. Why would he remove it at the passenger side of the car when he should be attending to TM bleeding at the driver's side of the car? Why didn't this cause LE to go hmmm...?

I'm not suggesting any such thing. If you will read my earlier posts on this, you will know what I said. I merely pointed out that the PHOTO shows the HANDGRIP of the gun with the MAGAZINE REMOVED. That is a fact. That is what the photo shows.

I suggested various possibilities for why the photo shows the gun with the magazine removed, but I have not embraced or endorsed any of those possibilities.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-Vegas-*2-Arrests*-8&p=11698861#post11698861

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-Vegas-*2-Arrests*-8&p=11699180#post11699180

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-Vegas-*2-Arrests*-8&p=11700492#post11700492

 

[sonjay]

For comparison, here's a pic of a handgun grip WITH a magazine in it:

 

[Miss Muffet]

Sonja, I'm not jumping on you. My question isn't about magazines and handguns. My question is about the location of the magazine and handgun.

I'm wanting to entertain possibilities for why the handgun and magazine are in the passenger side of the buick when the last time we knew BM had a gun he was standing in the street shooting at the Audi and then ran to the truck for cover. How did the handgun and magazine get back into the passenger seat of the buick after all that when his mother is bleeding on the ground just outside the driver's door of the buick?

 

[sonjay]

Sonja, I'm not jumping on you. My question isn't about magazines and handguns. My question is about the location of the magazine and handgun.

I'm wanting to entertain possibilities for why the handgun and magazine are in the passenger side of the buick when the last time we knew BM had a gun he was standing in the street shooting at the Audi and then ran to the truck for cover. How did the handgun and magazine get back into the passenger seat of the buick after all that when his mother is bleeding on the ground just outside the driver's door of the buick?

I believe that in the photograph, they are sitting on the hood of the car, not inside the car. It looks like the magazine is sitting on or just in front of the windshield wiper, and that is the windshield behind the magazine.

I don't know how they got there or who put them there. All I know is, there is a handgun with the magazine removed. The gun, the magazine, and a loose round were photographed sitting on the hood of the car just in front of the windshield. They were put there by someone prior to the photographer taking the picture. Why, when or by whom is unknown.

 

[Miss Muffet]

But it's on the passenger side. Look at the diagram. The diagram is marked with evidence on the passenger side of the buick. I don't believe crime scene investigators move evidence prior to photographing it. They photograph it where it is found.

I think the location of these items is very relevant to discuss. It indicates BM was up to something before LE and paramedics arrived. I think that picture is between the passenger seat and the car door, and that's carpeting that we see. When you enlarge the picture, it's fuzzy like carpeting material.

 

[sonjay]

But it's on the passenger side. Look at the diagram. The diagram is marked with evidence on the passenger side of the buick. I don't believe crime scene investigators move evidence prior to photographing it. They photograph it where it is found.

I think the location of these items is very relevant to discuss. It indicates BM was up to something before LE and paramedics arrived. I think that picture is between the passenger seat and the car door, and that's carpeting that we see. When you enlarge the picture, it's fuzzy like carpeting material.

So then you must be suggesting that BM went back to the passenger side of the Buick and removed the magazine from the gun after shooting at the Audi and before police arrived.

I don't think that's what happened. I think this picture looks like it's on the hood, with the magazine sort of sitting on or leaning against the windshield wiper.

The arrest affidavit and the diagram indicate that an unfired 9mm round was found in the passenger seat. Neither of those documents says anything about a gun, a magazine, and a 9mm round being found on the floor next to the passenger seat.

I can only conclude that someone put the gun, the magazine and the loose round on the car hood before this picture was taken.

Perhaps BM handed the gun to LE when they arrived, and the first thing they did was remove the magazine and rack the slide to eject the round from the chamber, then place all 3 items on the car hood. If the gun was in BM's hand when LE arrived, or in his pocket, or in a holster, they certainly wouldn't leave it there until the police photographer arrived. They would take the gun from him right away. They would unload it, and then put it somewhere. Like, maybe, on the car hood. Because they would want to get pictures of it before they sealed it into evidence bags.

I'm guessing here as to why the gun, the magazine, and the loose round were on the car hood.

I'm basing my guess on the fact that the photo looks to me like the gun, the magazine, and the loose round are sitting on the car hood.

It is also fact that the gun in the picture has had the magazine removed. Therefore, either BM removed the magazine himself, or LE removed the magazine. My money would be on LE removing the magazine.

 

[Miss Muffet]

So then you must be suggesting that BM went back to the passenger side of the Buick and removed the magazine from the gun after shooting at the Audi and before police arrived.

That's what I was wondering.

Perhaps BM handed the gun to LE when they arrived, and the first thing they did was remove the magazine and rack the slide to eject the round from the chamber, then place all 3 items on the car hood. If the gun was in BM's hand when LE arrived, or in his pocket, or in a holster, they certainly wouldn't leave it there until the police photographer arrived. They would take the gun from him right away. They would unload it, and then put it somewhere. Like, maybe, on the car hood. Because they would want to get pictures of it before they sealed it into evidence bags.

That's a good point.

 

[al66pine]

Sonjay
First, thx for being so patient in answering my questions, and responding to other posters as well.

Re when LE photos of gun, mag & loose cartridge was taken - before or after LE (presumably) emptied gun.

. I don't know. I would think they would take some photos before touching the firearm, but that when they touch it, the very first thing they would do would be to unload it. And they might take additional photos after unloading it. But I don't know.
Agreeing, seems like LE techs w/take first pix of of gun, etc. as found at crime scene, before LE touched then
LEOs would empty gun, perhaps move it, then techs w/take more pix w better lighting, less shadowing, closer up.
Then again, maybe that's what happened, but only a few pix were released publicly. LE may have pix of gun in situ.

....When I looked again at the photo BM posted of his new gun on FB last year, I noticed that it has a laser sight attached underneath the barrel. I hadn't noticed that before.
Did BrM's range time include practice w laser sight in low-ish light conditions? Similar to cul de sac that night? Just rhetorical.
Any idea of distance from passenger side where casings were found, to likely targets, like silver car or occupants?
IIRC, LE recovered three 9mm casings close to Buick passenger side.
Seems odd - LE recovered no9mm bullets or fragments.
Did he just shoot into air or give info causing LE to misdirect their searches = purely speculation w no basis in fact.
Maybe since it seemed like open & shut case ATM & w urgency re getting med aid for Tammy, LE efforts were focused elsewhere.
Or maybe I am misjudging distance from his gun to likely target or range of travel of 9mm ammo.

bbm sbm

Lots of puzzles, riddles, and head scratching w this case.

 

[sonjay]

Sonjay
Seems odd - LE recovered no9mm bullets or fragments.
Did he just shoot into air or give info causing LE to misdirect their searches = purely speculation w no basis in fact.
Maybe since it seemed like open & shut case ATM & w urgency re getting med aid for Tammy, LE efforts were focused elsewhere.
Or maybe I am misjudging distance from his gun to likely target or range of travel of 9mm ammo.

Google tells me a 9mm bullet can travel up to about a mile and a half. Depending, of course, on a variety of factors, such as windage, angle of fire, and other factors.

I don't find it at all surprising if they haven't found any 9mm bullets.

 

[al66pine]

Google tells me a 9mm bullet can travel up to about a mile and a half. Depending, of course, on a variety of factors, such as windage, angle of fire, and other factors.
I don't find it at all surprising if they haven't found any 9mm bullets.

bbm

Had been thinking BrM might have been a better shot. But everybody's better at the range, than in RL w stress, etc.

Okay, got it. No wonder LE did not find. Thank you very much.

 

[ontheclock]

Looks like I've got some catching up to do on this case. Life got in the way.

I'll be back.