GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #8

[PaperDoll]

What the lawyer said only made it seem really strange - particularly with what we know now - that there was only one pill missing out of the entire bottle. We are supposed to believe it was that one pill with it being the only one used in over a month that is responsible for these results. I also want to know what the family lawyer was doing handling that evidence to know if the police handed over evidence - prescription drugs no less - before the trial to the family or if the police did not conduct a thorough investigation and did not find the pills. I really want to know the chain of custody of the evidence and LE/DA's knowledge of the pill bottle and when they acquired knowledge of this pill bottle. Also I want to know the date of the blood test that was used for these results. That one pill gone seems very strange, it's more strange that she'd be out driving with a nearly full bottle of pills and her prescription and strangest yet that the family lawyer is handling this evidence before the trial.

TM being on drugs would certainly explain why she'd go to a gang member's home (if that actually happened) and do other such strange behaviors. Also being on oxycodone could explain why BM needed to help her out of her car as one of the things oxycodone does is gives you limp/weak muscles:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682132.html

Also as a blast from the past:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nned-19-year-old-said-buying-Xanax-years.html
This does look like the son should be tried for felony murder if he was part of some drug deal.

BBM: I think BM helped her out of the car not due to weak muscles but due to the shock of being shot at to make sure she was alright... JMO!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I still don't get the math that I mentioned in a previous post.
60-1=44 or 45?

In listening to him I think he wasn't sure how many were prescribed, just he was saying however many were prescribed only one pill was used in the prior 45 days.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

BBM: I think BM helped her out of the car not due to weak muscles but due to the shock of being shot at to make sure she was alright... JMO!

Why would she be shocked when it was stated that was precisely why she went out in the first place as her stated reason for going out was to find the person who put a death threat on her and her daughter and to keep that away from the home? Are you suggesting she wasn't out to confront the alleged road rager who had put out a death threat on her, but instead was out for some other reason? If the Meyer's family story is to be believed about the death threat, the Meyers shouldn't have been shocked that they were shot at after proactively going after the person they believed put out a death threat on them, but it would make sense they were shocked if the Meyers were proactively pursuing someone who hadn't just put out a death threat on them.

 

[sonjay]

I'm not under the impression that TM was high on drugs that night, even if she took a pain pill to me taking the one wouldn't effect her ability to make decision, JMO. I've taken pain meds and it doesn't make me do crazy things. We are only getting bits and pieces here, we are not hearing/reading the full story. We don't have the full autopsy report to read, we don't have a full interview to listen to, we are just getting bits and pieces from these interviews or news reports. :crazy:

I don't know if you have any experience with oxycodone. Or oxycodone combined with diazepam. But it's well within the bounds of possibility that if she had taken oxy, or oxy and diazepam, her judgment and decision-making could have been affected that night.

The risk of serious side effects (such as slow/shallow breathing, severe drowsiness/dizziness) may be increased if this medication is taken with other products that may also affect breathing or cause drowsiness. Therefore, tell your doctor or pharmacist if you are taking other products such as alcohol, allergy or cough-and-cold products, anti-seizure drugs (such as phenobarbital), medicine for sleep or anxiety (such as alprazolam, diazepam, zolpidem), muscle relaxants, other narcotic pain relievers (such as codeine, oxymorphone), and psychiatric medicines (such as risperidone, amitriptyline, trazodone).
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1025-5278/oxycodone-oral/oxycodone-oral/details#interactions

Particularly if she were taking both oxycodone and diazepam, the likelihood of serious side effects is increased over the likelihood of serious side effects from either drug alone.

There are people who were all "EN was on drugs, so he was paranoid, aggressive, etc." -- even though there's been no evidence at all so far that he ever used anything stronger than pot. But when it turns out that TM was on very strong prescription drugs, it's all "oh, we don't know, we can't judge, we're not getting the full story."

Webmd.com tells me that "Hallucination" is one of the rare side effects of oxycodone.
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1025-5278/oxycodone-oral/oxycodone-oral/details/list-sideeffects

 

[Hiandmighty]

Oxy + valium + alcohol (?) would be a mind bending combination.

As someone else mentioned, if she only took one oxy in 45 days then she didn't need oxy.

If she only took one oxy in 45 days why was the bottle in her purse? And why did she have levels in her toxicology?

I hope the prescribing information is somehow verified through the court system.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Erich Nowsch could have been stone cold sober and Tammy could have been higher than a kite. Erich is still a coldblooded killer and Tammy is the victim of his violent assault. In fact if Erich was totally sober that means his mind wasn't clouded by drugs and is more culpable in Tammy's death. Being under the influence doesn't make Tammy less of a victim. JMO.

 

[sonjay]

Per the Mayo Clinic
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/diazepam-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20072333

Some of the possible side effects of diazepam include:
agitation
anxiety
changes in patterns and rhythms of speech
confusion
false beliefs that cannot be changed by facts
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
hyperexcitability
irritability
lack of memory of what takes place after a certain event
mood or other mental changes
nervousness
outbursts of anger
restlessness
trouble concentrating
trouble in speaking
unusual behavior
unusual feeling of excitement

 

[sonjay]

Per the Mayo clinic, some of the possible side effects of oxycodone
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/oxycodone-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20074193

confusion
anxiety
change in walking and balance
changes in vision
clumsiness or unsteadiness
depersonalization
dysphoria
feeling of unreality
irritability
loss of memory
loss of strength or energy
mental depression
muscle pain or weakness
muscle stiffness
muscle tension or tightness
paranoia
problems with memory
quick to react or overreact emotionally
rapidly changing moods
restlessness
sensation of spinning
sense of detachment from self or body

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Erich Nowsch could have been stone cold sober and Tammy could have been higher than a kite. Erich is still a coldblooded killer and Tammy is the victim of his violent assault. In fact if Erich was totally sober that means his mind wasn't clouded by drugs and is more culpable in Tammy's death. Being under the influence doesn't make Tammy less of a victim. JMO.

If this was part of a drug deal, I'd think that would actually make it easier to convict EN on M1. A fight over a drug deal rather than a case of mistaken identity with EN an innocent bystander who was misidentified by the Meyers hurts rather than helps EN. I'd should add this helping in the conviction would only be if the DA actually presses rather than purely letting EN's lawyer spin it while claiming a whole separate scenario of events. If the DA doesn't put forth an honest credible case that will work against the prosecution, not that I think EN getting off is likely just the jury would go for lesser charges if the DA's scenario to the jury isn't seen as credible. I find it very troubling that LE/DA didn't find the bottle of pills and that they say they still don't know what medications were given to TM when she was in the hospital two months ago.

 

[sonjay]

If this was part of a drug deal, I'd think that would actually make it easier to convict EN on M1. A fight over a drug deal rather than a case of mistaken identity with EN an innocent bystander who was misidentified by the Meyers hurts rather than helps EN.

Maybe, maybe not. The fact remains that the Meyerses (TM & BM & maybe ??) set out in their car that night, armed, looking for (spiky haired road rager/silver car/EN/who knows), and they found him and they chased him. EN was not looking for them. He wasn't driving around hunting for them. When they found him, he fled. According to BM's recent interview, the silver car fled at 80-100 mph trying to get away. But the Meyerses continued to pursue the silver car.

That sure doesn't sound like M1 to me.

There are people who want to excuse TM's decisions and behavior that night because she was so frightened. She went after the silver car because she was terrified and she wanted to "keep the mess away from the house."

Well, it sounds to me like EN was very frightened, too, and he tried to get away. He tried to get away at speeds of 80-100mph! He thought the green car was driving by his house; he too wanted to keep the mess away from his house.

Do we excuse TM because she was frightened and blame EN because he was frightened? Do we excuse both? Do we blame both?

I keep going back to the fact that it was the Meyerses who instigated the whole thing. If they had not elected to go hunting that night with a gun, that shooting would not have happened.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Maybe, maybe not. The fact remains that the Meyerses (TM & BM & maybe ??) set out in their car that night, armed, looking for (spiky haired road rager/silver car/EN/who knows), and they found him and they chased him. EN was not looking for them. He wasn't driving around hunting for them. When they found him, he fled. According to BM's recent interview, the silver car fled at 80-100 mph trying to get away. But the Meyerses continued to pursue the silver car.

That sure doesn't sound like M1 to me.

If this is part of an ongoing illicit business dispute between the parties rather than something completely out of the blue with a misidentified innocent bystander that changes things. Anything other than a misidentified innocent bystander is going to change the calculus as anything else is greater than that. I'm not saying it means you would necessarily get M1, but your chances go up if you're not an innocent misidentified bystander.

Do we excuse TM because she was frightened and blame EN because he was frightened? Do we excuse both? Do we blame both?

I think the Meyers themselves were engaged in serious criminal conduct and that's why they've been less than forthcoming to say the least and if they had initially told everything to LE, they too could be facing charges including BM facing felony murder or some other very serious charge. I think this was part of a drug deal, I think there was more than two people in the Meyers car and if LE/DA investigated this case thoroughly and looked for and tried to present the truth to the jury that the odds of an M1 conviction for EN would go up substantially. If instead they don't investigate thoroughly (like not finding the pill bottle, not investigating the alleged threats made to EN, etc) and they present a case that is easily undermined as untrue the odds of an M1 conviction go way down. I can see a jury convicting EN of M1 if the jury sees the DA as highly credible, just so far it seems like the more time has gone on the more LE/DA get undermined and as such a jury isn't going to throw the maximum penalty to a case that has been shot full of holes.

 

[PaperDoll]

Why would she be shocked when it was stated that was precisely why she went out in the first place as her stated reason for going out was to find the person who put a death threat on her and her daughter and to keep that away from the home? Are you suggesting she wasn't out to confront the alleged road rager who had put out a death threat on her, but instead was out for some other reason? If the Meyer's family story is to be believed about the death threat, the Meyers shouldn't have been shocked that they were shot at after proactively going after the person they believed put out a death threat on them, but it would make sense they were shocked if the Meyers were proactively pursuing someone who hadn't just put out a death threat on them.

We don't know why she decided to go out after the road rage guy, we only know from what BM/RM tells us. I'm sure TM wasn't expecting to be shot at that night. At the 1st shooting TM/BM took off for home instead of pursing the Audi further. If they truly were going out to kill, they would have done so right then and there but they didn't. This is my theory only and people don't have to agree with it, I've been wrong before and I could be wrong again..

 

[PaperDoll]

I don't know if you have any experience with oxycodone. Or oxycodone combined with diazepam. But it's well within the bounds of possibility that if she had taken oxy, or oxy and diazepam, her judgment and decision-making could have been affected that night.

The risk of serious side effects (such as slow/shallow breathing, severe drowsiness/dizziness) may be increased if this medication is taken with other products that may also affect breathing or cause drowsiness. Therefore, tell your doctor or pharmacist if you are taking other products such as alcohol, allergy or cough-and-cold products, anti-seizure drugs (such as phenobarbital), medicine for sleep or anxiety (such as alprazolam, diazepam, zolpidem), muscle relaxants, other narcotic pain relievers (such as codeine, oxymorphone), and psychiatric medicines (such as risperidone, amitriptyline, trazodone).
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1025-5278/oxycodone-oral/oxycodone-oral/details#interactions

Particularly if she were taking both oxycodone and diazepam, the likelihood of serious side effects is increased over the likelihood of serious side effects from either drug alone.

There are people who were all "EN was on drugs, so he was paranoid, aggressive, etc." -- even though there's been no evidence at all so far that he ever used anything stronger than pot. But when it turns out that TM was on very strong prescription drugs, it's all "oh, we don't know, we can't judge, we're not getting the full story."

Webmd.com tells me that "Hallucination" is one of the rare side effects of oxycodone.
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1025-5278/oxycodone-oral/oxycodone-oral/details/list-sideeffects

I've taken pain meds and I've taken Xanax and I've also taken muscles relaxants and it does not impair my ability to think rationally. I've taken them together but I haven't ever taken them in high doses. I've had surgery, I've been in car accidents so I understand why TM would carry her pills with her. If a person has back/neck pain and it flairs up from time to time, you would most likely keep the meds in your purse, I know I have.

As far as EN being paranoid due to drugs, I'm sure he was doing a lot more than what TM was carrying around. However, I'm only guessing since I don't know either of them personally, I'm "judging" them from afar just like everyone here is. I don't get the impression TM is a drug user but I get the impression EN is.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

We don't know why she decided to go out after the road rage guy, we only know from what BM/RM tells us. I'm sure TM wasn't expecting to be shot at that night.

Why would you not expect to be shot at when you're going after the person who just threatened to kill you? I agree that I don't think she was expecting to be shot at and that is because it doesn't square that she was going after someone who just threatened to kill her but instead was going after someone for reasons other than because they had just threatened to kill her.

At the 1st shooting TM/BM took off for home instead of pursing the Audi further. If they truly were going out to kill, they would have done so right then and there but they didn't. This is my theory only and people don't have to agree with it, I've been wrong before and I could be wrong again..

Per BM's own testimony they pulled up behind the Audi, so how do you know they weren't planning on some violent confrontation of some type but got foiled and surprised that the car was armed? Them being shot at and being surprised by that would point to them not being after someone who had just threatened their life but instead were going after someone who they knew didn't just threaten their life. I absolutely agree they weren't expecting to be shot at precisely because they weren't going after someone who threatened their life - them being shot at foiled their plans - not that I necessarily think they were out to kill EN but wanted to have an armed confrontation with him to get back money they paid for drugs, get more drugs, etc.

 

[sonjay]

We don't know why she decided to go out after the road rage guy, we only know from what BM/RM tells us. I'm sure TM wasn't expecting to be shot at that night.

I don't think she was either. That's why:

At the 1st shooting TM/BM took off for home instead of pursing the Audi further.

If EN had not had his gun with him, and shot at them when they were chasing him on Villa Monterey, I have very serious doubts they would have taken off for home. They did not take off for home until he shot at them.

If they truly were going out to kill, they would have done so right then and there but they didn't. This is my theory only and people don't have to agree with it, I've been wrong before and I could be wrong again.. :loser:

I don't know what they truly intended to do when they set out that night, but I find it compelling that they took a gun with them. I continue to wonder how that evening would have ended had EN not had his gun with him.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I don't know what they truly intended to do when they set out that night, but I find it compelling that they took a gun with them. I continue to wonder how that evening would have ended had EN not had his gun with him.

I don't see a circumstance for the Meyers setting out to kill EN, but I could see any number of circumstances where they'd want to confront him at the point of a gun over some aspect of a drug deal. I think the Meyers were looking to have their way over some issue by use of intimidation with a gun, but they didn't actually intend for any guns to be used that night.

 

[sonjay]

I don't see a circumstance for the Meyers setting out to kill EN, but I could see any number of circumstances where they'd want to confront him at the point of a gun over some aspect of a drug deal. I think the Meyers were looking to have their way over some issue by use of intimidation with a gun, but they didn't actually intend for any guns to be used that night.

As I said, I don't know what the Meyerses intended when they set out that night with a gun.

What I do know is that as soon as they were shot at, they changed their minds about it. It's clear that they did not expect to be shot at, that they expected to be the only side with gun, and that they believed they would have the upper hand in whatever confrontation they were seeking.

It wasn't until they discovered that their prey also had a gun that they changed their minds about whatever they were planning to do.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

It wasn't until they discovered that their prey also had a gun that they changed their minds about whatever they were planning to do.

To me I take this as evidence against there being any alleged road rager who just threatened to kill the Meyers. The more shocked the Meyers were, the less credible the road rage death threat story is.

 

[sonjay]

To me I take this as evidence against there being any alleged road rager who just threatened to kill the Meyers. The more shocked the Meyers were, the less credible the road rage death threat story is.

I concluded a long time ago, based on the few available facts, that there was no road rage and no spiky-haired dude, and that TM & BM did not set out with a gun due to road rage by a spiky-haired dude.

Every single new fact that comes out further confirms for me there was no road rage and no spiky-haired dude.

If it turns out that there was a spiky-haired dude who road-raged them that night, I'll be more shocked than the Meyerses were when EN shot at them.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I concluded a long time ago, based on the few available facts, that there was no road rage and no spiky-haired dude, and that TM & BM did not set out with a gun due to road rage by a spiky-haired dude.
Every single new fact that comes out further confirms for me there was no road rage and no spiky-haired dude.
If it turns out that there was a spiky-haired dude who road-raged them that night, I'll be more shocked than the Meyerses were when EN shot at them.

This case really bothers me because it seems like LE/DA don't want to actually know what happened and seek justice based upon a full view of the events. I'd have no problem if EN was convicted on M1 due to escalation in a drug deal gone bad with the Meyers, but it seems like LE/DA are actively avoiding that line of investigation to the point where the Meyers finds evidence that LE/DA should have found ages ago. The whole drug deal gone bad was raised before the family lawyers were even hired and them handling that evidence is highly problematic as nothing would have stopped the Meyers from tampering with that evidence in the weeks/months since the shooting (not that I'm saying the Meyers did do that, just a thorough investigation by LE/DA would preclude that possibility from even being raised as it would have been in police custody rather than Meyers custody). Also with the DA saying after months that they don't know if TM was prescribed Valium while in the hospital really makes it seem like LE/DA doesn't want to know and this lack of investigative interest by LE/DA just bothers me to no end that whatever happened that night justice won't be served.