NV NV - Wellington, WhtMale 574UMNV, 35-50, off Sand Canyon Road, Mar'92 - #1

[Miss Muffet]

I also don't know why someone would cut off hands and feet but leave teeth to ID someone. I think animals are too blame for those missing bones. Have to run, off to get some tests done, wish me luck.

The missing teeth could have been removed to make identification more difficult.

Good luck with your test.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Okay, I sent the picture to FL Wildlife and Game and one of the Bird people are going to look at it and try to tell us what kind of bird it is. This will help a lot. Or at least end the debate, LOL

I'm leaving in an hour to go to the National Aviary in person to show them all of the pictures.

If your people and my people give different opinions, I doubt the debate will end. LOL

 

[Skully]

The missing teeth could have been removed to make identification more difficult.

Good luck with your test.

I saw a post from one of the Detectives and he said the sockets were healed, so the teeth went missing before he did.

Test was okay, just need results. Thanks

 

[Miss Muffet]

I saw a post from one of the Detectives and he said the sockets were healed, so the teeth went missing before he did.

Thank you. I missed that recent post of his.

I'll continue to entertain the possibility of the hands and feet being cut off until told otherwise. While the detective confirmed the teeth were healed prior to the death, they have specifically refuse to verify if the hands and feet were cut off or not. My instinct is telling me there's no reason for them to withhold that the hand and feet bones were missing due to animals.

Test was okay, just need results. Thanks

Fingers crossed!

 

[Dylgem22]

Found this t shirt, which I know isn't it, but the design is similar ...
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/55462132/sedona-arizona_tshirt?productId=543716059

 

[Miss Muffet]

To cut a long story short I was passing through Arizona in mid 1993 - I travelled from Australia. When I reached Sedonna, I bought a number of T-Shirts with Native American designs that appealed to me.
Now, I didn't buy the T-Shirt with the Bird on it, but one of the people I was travelling with did, and he wore that T-Shirt a lot so it sort of stuck in my memory.
The store that sold it was off the main highway, they sold T's 3 for $10 (on special).
The other thing was I thought the Bird was an Owl.

Found this t shirt, which I know isn't it, but the design is similar ...
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/55462132/sedona-arizona_tshirt?productId=543716059

That's very similar! That circle is probably just a couple of inches wide and the bird is small, but you and FigTree might be onto something because Arizona is known for graphics with red circles for the sun. I had looked at Grand Canyon, but not Sedona or other parts of Arizona.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Leaving for the National Aviary now! Hoping it turns out to be an informative trip!

 

[Steleheart]

This post will seem like a massive long shot but...
For the last few days I have really been thinking over the piece of fabric and the partial piece of design on the T-Shirt - and whether or not to post at all - mainly because I am sure I have seen this design on a T-Shirt.
To cut a long story short I was passing through Arizona in mid 1993 - I travelled from Australia. When I reached Sedonna, I bought a number of T-Shirts with Native American designs that appealed to me.
Now, I didn't buy the T-Shirt with the Bird on it, but one of the people I was travelling with did, and he wore that T-Shirt a lot so it sort of stuck in my memory.
The store that sold it was off the main highway, they sold T's 3 for $10 (on special).
The other thing was I thought the Bird was an Owl. The base colour of the T-shirt he bought was like a buckwheat - there were also other coloured backgrounds of this Shirt.
Somewhere I still have the T-shirts I bought - they are packed somewhere. If I can find the brand on my T-Shirts label - maybe that would help?
Yep, I did say long shot. I will also look through the photo album to see if there is a picture of him wearing the T-Shirt.

BBM;
Doesn't seem like that much of a long shot -

~ If just 1 person remembers we are miles ahead!
~ now you have a person!
~ YES! we were not told about the neck but we were told that there was no label found. That's a biggie.
~ if you find it and even if it's different it gives more info for an image search than we have.

So . Any possibility of getting in touch with that person?

Thanks!

:cow:

 

[Miss Muffet]

Back from the National Aviary!

They thought our project was interesting. I had four bird experts consulting, and the bird of prey expert was there.

We're definitely looking at the bird from the underside with its wings outstretched.

With certainty, it's not an eagle or a falcon.

It's either a Red Tail Hawk or a Great Horned Owl.

Most likely a Red Tail Hawk of Buteo Genus, but we shouldn't disregard Great Horned Owl entirely.

Here's why:

The pattern on the tail feathers is like a Great Horned Owl because it's a disorganized bark-like pattern.

Red Tail Hawk tail feather patterns are very clear defined lines and symmetrical.

They think it's an artist's inaccurate depiction of a Red Tail Hawk because you almost never see an owl flying and/or soaring upward with outstretched wings. (It's not that they don't/can't do it, it's just incredibly rare for someone to see them doing it.) Owls are most often seen sitting or diving with their wings forward, backwards or bent and their feet outward to prepare to grab prey. The only time you'd typically see an owl with its wings in this position is if it's taking off.

They say it's incredibly common to see a Red Tail Hawk in this position. It makes sense with a sun, not so much with a moon.

IMO, the reason we shouldn't disregard Great Horned Owl is because of how rare he says it would be to see it in this position. If we find artwork of an Owl with outstretched wings, it should be pretty darn easy to determine the origin because of its rarity.

But our focus shouldn't be only on the Great Horned Owl since it's highly unlikely.

Hope that makes sense!
.

 

[Skully]

glad I picked the hawk to draw first. now I can work on it to refine it. good job!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The detectives are well aware of what is factual information.

At the start of my post, it says "THEORIES" in big read letters, and in that same post I said "if" regarding the hands and feet.

My subsequent post was mostly focused on general information about gangs and drug smuggling, and the types of people who cut off hands and feet.

I knew this was going to happen, that's why my initial post said I was posting it for the detectives, not to debate with others here.
.

I posted what I found on gangs because I thought it could be useful information on what was happening in the area at the time of the murder. It was surprising for me to see the innocence of Reno at that late date. We were having much bigger problems at the time in OK.

They don't want to acknowledge the information one way or the other so we have to respect it and work within those parameters. It is against TOS to do otherwise.

Our theories should always be up for discussion here. It is what we do! We take ideas and toss them around. When we debate, it is a useful tool to focus in on ideas or narrow down other issues. While it is a treat to have the detectives working with us on the ID by ruling the submissions in or out and answering questions, we should continue to deal with this case as usual. It is a team effort and we are all on the same side.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I have two artists leads I'm working on.

I also have two appointments with experts in other fields later this week.

I'll post the pictures from the books I bought yesterday later tonight. I have to run errands, and I want to revisit the books with the new information I received from the bird experts today.

 

[Miss Muffet]

They don't want to acknowledge the information one way or the other so we have to respect it and work within those parameters. It is against TOS to do otherwise.

Show me where I'm not respecting and working within those parameters. LOL I never demanded they tell us one way or another. I simply drew a logical conclusion based on their not doing so. That's a theory. I don't think it's productive to have to defend myself with the semantics of how a post is worded when I very clearly was theorizing. As you said, we're on the same team.

Our theories should always be up for discussion here. It is what we do! We take ideas and toss them around. When we debate, it is a useful tool to focus in on ideas or narrow down other issues. While it is a treat to have the detectives working with us on the ID by ruling the submissions in or out and answering questions, we should continue to deal with this case as usual. It is a team effort and we are all on the same side.

The point of my post was to explain the origin of my idea to DNA test select missing person's whose dental records didn't match the victim. It's for the detectives to decide if that's a useful course of action if all other leads fail. That's not for us to decide.

They don't even need to tell me their what they decide about the idea. I don't even care to know what they think of the idea. I just gave it to them as a gift, and they can do with it as they please.

ETA: I'm not upset with you. I sure hope you're not upset with me. Let's move past this. I'm going to get back to focusing on the research projects I'm working on.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Back from the National Aviary!

They thought our project was interesting. I had four bird experts consulting, and the bird of prey expert was there.

We're definitely looking at the bird from the underside with its wings outstretched.

With certainty, it's not an eagle or a falcon.

It's either a Red Tail Hawk or a Great Horned Owl.

Most likely a Red Tail Hawk of Buteo Genus, but we shouldn't disregard Great Horned Owl entirely.

Here's why:

The pattern on the tail feathers is like a Great Horned Owl because it's a disorganized bark-like pattern.

Red Tail Hawk tail feather patterns are very clear defined lines and symmetrical.

They think it's an artist's inaccurate depiction of a Red Tail Hawk because you almost never see an owl flying and/or soaring with outstretched wings. (It's not that they don't/can't do it, it's just incredibly rare for someone to see them doing it.) Owls are most often seen sitting or diving with their wings forward. The only time you'd typically see an owl with its wings in this position is if it's taking off.

They say it's incredibly common to see a Red Tail Hawk in this position. It makes sense with a sun, not so much with a moon.

IMO, the reason we shouldn't disregard Great Horned Owl is because of how rare he says it would be to see it in this position. If we find artwork of an Owl with outstretched wings, it should be pretty darn easy to determine the origin because of its rarity.

But our focus shouldn't be only on the Great Horned Owl since it's highly unlikely.

Hope that makes sense!

Great idea going to them for an ID even if they couldn't settle on the exact one. They certainly narrowed it down and logically it does make sense it could be a red tail hawk especially if the artist drew it with a sun instead of a moon. I will continue to research both the hawk and the owl for now.

I wish we had the signature of the artist on that piece of shirt! Would be easier to track the artist down than the design. lol

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This post will seem like a massive long shot but...
For the last few days I have really been thinking over the piece of fabric and the partial piece of design on the T-Shirt - and whether or not to post at all - mainly because I am sure I have seen this design on a T-Shirt.
To cut a long story short I was passing through Arizona in mid 1993 - I travelled from Australia. When I reached Sedonna, I bought a number of T-Shirts with Native American designs that appealed to me.
Now, I didn't buy the T-Shirt with the Bird on it, but one of the people I was travelling with did, and he wore that T-Shirt a lot so it sort of stuck in my memory.
The store that sold it was off the main highway, they sold T's 3 for $10 (on special).
The other thing was I thought the Bird was an Owl. The base colour of the T-shirt he bought was like a buckwheat - there were also other coloured backgrounds of this Shirt.
Somewhere I still have the T-shirts I bought - they are packed somewhere. If I can find the brand on my T-Shirts label - maybe that would help?

Yep, I did say long shot. I will also look through the photo album to see if there is a picture of him wearing the T-Shirt.

Now this is exciting! Long shot or not, it is worth exploring. Funny how some things do stick with us through the years and it only takes a flash to recall them. I can see if a person wore the shirt all the time how it could burn that memory into your brain. Yay! Hit those photo albums! Good luck!

 

[Miss Muffet]

Great idea going to them for an ID even if they couldn't settle on the exact one. They certainly narrowed it down and logically it does make sense it could be a red tail hawk especially if the artist drew it with a sun instead of a moon. I will continue to research both the hawk and the owl for now.

I wish we had the signature of the artist on that piece of shirt! Would be easier to track the artist down than the design. lol

They're certain of the position of the bird too. That's also what makes it more likely to be a hawk. But I think the great horned owl is still a very worthy pursuit. The very rarity of it being depicted in art would make the source easily identifiable if we find it. If we find the hawk, the source will be harder to identify. As a result, both birds are worthy leads, IMO.

 

[Skully]

Oh Miss Muffet, I love you! You are not the Miss Muffett in my old nursery rhymes, that is for sure. No sitting on your tuffet eating pudding or what ever she was eating, LOL curds and waves, WTH is that anyway?

You go girl, I think you are going to end up getting the shirt and posting it here. If I ever need someone to find something for me, I am calling you. Much love :blowkiss:

 

[Skully]

Good Lord, I found more hawks on tees.

 

[CarlK90245]

No sitting on your tuffet eating pudding or what ever she was eating, LOL curds and waves, WTH is that anyway?

That's curds and whey (not waves) LOL.

Curds and whey is similar to cottage cheese.

 

[wenwe4]

Oh Miss Muffet, I love you! You are not the Miss Muffett in my old nursery rhymes, that is for sure. No sitting on your tuffet eating pudding or what ever she was eating, LOL curds and waves, WTH is that anyway? You go girl, I think you are going to end up getting the shirt and posting it here. If I ever need someone to find something for me, I am calling you. Much love :blowkiss:

I am giggling . . . too funny!

eating "curds and whey" - (kinda like cottage cheese I think)