NY NY - Alice Parsons: Heiress, Long Island, 1937

[zwiebel]

I'm trying to figure out where "Malapieratvirtsa" might have been. Brushing up on my history... wait, there's no "brushing up"... I'm really gonna have to do some reading. Not sure what types of Yugoslavian maps are available for early 1910-1920s?

Snap!
Wiki insists the first official use of the name Yugoslavia was in '29, so I don't know what is going on here. Before that, it wasn't really a single country. The name is either badly misspelled or made up. I think the only hope may be to search pre- world war 2 maps, looking for a name that is something similar.

There are loads of maps available for 1914-1918, because of world war 1. They're going to be Bosnia- Herzogovina, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia......I think. There are been a lot of upheavals in that part of Europe!

ETA Maybe Magyar Pyeratz Virtza?? Or something.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm trying to figure out where "Malapieratvirtsa" might have been. Brushing up on my history... wait, there's no "brushing up"... I'm really gonna have to do some reading. Not sure what types of Yugoslavian maps are available for early 1910-1920s?


**Initially this appears Lithuanian

Just saw your Lithuanian addition! Okay, back to a new map....

 

[fred&edna]

Snap!
Wiki insists the first official use of the name Yugoslavia was in '29, so I don't know what is going on here. Before that, it wasn't really a single country. The name is either badly misspelled or made up. I think the only hope may be to search pre- world war 2 maps, looking for a name that is something similar.

There are loads of maps available for 1914-1918, because of world war 1. They're going to be Bosnia- Herzogovina, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia......I think. There are been a lot of upheavals in that part of Europe!

ETA Maybe Magyar Pyeratz Virtza?? Or something.

Google translator recognizes "Malapieratvirtsa" as Lithuanian. When I broke it up into sub words... well, some words were uhhmmm... questionable (pirate, ?? ack!) :waitasec: I'm not doing so well. But, I'll keep at it!

 

[zwiebel]

I got the pirates too!

Am thinking Mala Virtsa may be known as Mala Vrsac ( pronunciation might have sounded the same to an english-speaker). Looks like Mala is a town in the region of Vrsac.

I'm getting nothing for pierat though.

 

[zwiebel]

This link says a large number of Russian refugees arrived in Yugoslavia during the 20s, many from the Crimean ports, half of them with the White army. It does seem possible Alex did have some aristocratic links, although I don't think he was a count.

I also think it is possible Anna ended up there too, before arriving in England, and she and Alex first met there. And many of their friends ultimately ended up in the US too. It is worth bearing in mind, I think, that nearly all of Anna's Russian friends would have had a background of turmoil, fighting and killing, and Anna might well have experienced that too.

http://www.russkiymir.ru/russkiymir/en/publications/articles/article0121.html?print=true

'The Russian Colony (in Yugoslavia) was rather uniform in that it was dominated primarily by the military.....everywhere....Coats and field jackets, some demilitarized but some still decorated with conspicous emblems of the old guard and other aristocratic military units.............The number of Russians who settled in Yugoslavia reached 70,000 in the 1920s.'

 

[Marilynilpa]

He said he was in a jam, maybe the jam was that he knew that Anna did it but wasn't involved in it....I'm not an author and have never written a book but when you are finished writing this story do you need to have permission from Roy's wife to publish it, just wondering, I would love to read the book.

Fortunately, no permission is necessary for my book.

I've always found William's "in a jam" comment to be curious, and that's one of the reasons I had difficulty figuring out if he knew about Anna's plans before she carried them out.

 

[Pink Panther]

Personally, I believe that he was part of the whole plot from the beginning. Regardless, if he found out later and still went on to marry Anna - in my view, he took partipated as an accessory to the crime.

 

[Ausgirl]

IIRC, the Colonel was pretty old.. and so were all the main benificiaries of his will - his wife passed just 2 years after him, and Alice's aunt didn't live a long time, either.

It's not hard to see how a woman with a lot of very wealthy, elderly rellies might benefit from their wills - she'd already been told she was to inherit a good sum, and had recently inherited that very same property she supposedly went to see with the (imo non-existent) couple in the black sendan. And I think there were a lot of shenanigans with the notes sent later, saying she was dead - perhaps they didn't factor in the very long wait they'd have if her body never showed up...

I am reasonably sure that if Anna could organise a couple of Russian pals to get William out of the house for the day, she could organise another couple to help her dispose of Alice. Nothing's to say she did any of it alone.

She worked for William's sister prior to the Parsons, and I think Anna had bulk opportunity to snoop about the family's general financial states. I think she used her child and her recipe as bait to get the Parsons entangled in her scheme, and waited for the $$$ to come rolling by, before ridding herself of Alice - and paving the way to a potential fortune once she married William. Hoover and his G-men knew Ana was involved, William knew it.. I think she escaped prison due to lack of evidence (and was careful to make sure there was none) and William knew full well what she did (and maybe hadn't the stomach.. or wanted an alibi.. or both..) - her lies prove her at least complicit in the crime..

What I'm wondering is, who else was in on it with her? Did she have the backing of a Russian criminal mob? Surely the people William saw that day were set-ups put in place for when his wife would vanish (at 11.15 at the farm, said Anna, though Alice was alive and well and still in Main street at 12.45... )

Was her ex husband one of those people? He was just miles away..

 

[zwiebel]

Fortunately, no permission is necessary for my book.

I've always found William's "in a jam" comment to be curious, and that's one of the reasons I had difficulty figuring out if he knew about Anna's plans before she carried them out.

In one of the linked articles (sorry, unsure which one now) the press obviously find that hinky too. They ask William to elaborate on the comment but instead he just repeats it and refuses to say anything more.

I also find it strange William asked everyone to leave for a while to give the kidnappers a chance to contact him. Does that mean everyone left? Or would the FBI have stuck around, no matter what?

 

[Marilynilpa]

In one of the linked articles (sorry, unsure which one now) the press obviously find that hinky too. They ask William to elaborate on the comment but instead he just repeats it and refuses to say anything more.

I also find it strange William asked everyone to leave for a while to give the kidnappers a chance to contact him. Does that mean everyone left? Or would the FBI have stuck around, no matter what?

I don't know about the FBI, but LE gave William an incredible amount of leeway in this case. But I think the FBI took a harder stance.

There was an immediate rift between local and state PD and the FBI. The locals felt from the get-go that Alice had been killed, whereas the FBI clung to the kidnapping theory. The agencies had different headquarters and from what I can tell, there was little communication or cooperation between them.

 

[zwiebel]

I finally found an English version of the German Bundesarchives. There may well be a map of that missing yugoslavian town of Malapieratvirtsa, or emigration list that gives further clues to the background of Anna or her first husband Alex, if we're lucky. Trouble is, any docs themselves will be in German, and mine's so bad I might not recognise a discovery when I see it!

http://www.bundesarchiv.de/benutzung/zeitbezug/weimarer_republik/index.html.en

 

[zwiebel]

I don't know about the FBI, but LE gave William an incredible amount of leeway in this case. But I think the FBI took a harder stance.

There was an immediate rift between local and state PD and the FBI. The locals felt from the get-go that Alice had been killed, whereas the FBI clung to the kidnapping theory. The agencies had different headquarters and from what I can tell, there was little communication or cooperation between them.

Ah yes, I recall reading a book about Hoover once, and the resentment him and his agency attracted.

 

[zwiebel]

Before I started giving myself a BIG headache searching for Bremen passenger lists in a language I hardly speak, I wish I had found this link, which tells me all those lists have been thoroughly destroyed.....

http://www.dearmyrtle.com/06/0211.htm

 

[zwiebel]

At the risk of getting in trouble for stereotyping nations.....this is a German, Royal families, website. It covers the world. It is so thorough, I really am inclined to accept its accuracy. There is no Aleksandre/Alexander Kuprianoff/Kupryanov or any vaguely similar version of that name listed for any noble family that I could find.

http://www.almanachdegotha.org/index.html

He wasn't a count. Anna wasn't a countess. She was telling fibs. If she wasn't, surely she would have joined the Association of Russian Nobility, founded in NY in 1938 and still going strong? And Alex was either telling fibs about where he came from too, or something got very badly lost in translation when he arrived in the US.

ETA; Having said that, if you scroll down to about eight lines from the bottom on this page, you will see at 1d there is a member of the Yugoslavian royal family born, called Alexander, in 1924. It may be nothing, but he was born in White Lodge, Richmond, Surrey. Coincidence? Or could Anna have been a servant in their house? She was recorded as living in Richmond when she emigrated to the US in 1926. http://www.almanachdegotha.org/id42.html

I am going to have a little try with Anna's maiden name to see if that proves more fruitful. Wish we had a Russian speaker on this thread though......

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

This is such an incredibly intriguing read! :book:

I wanted to let you all know that I am astounded at your sleuthing abilities....:bowdown:

And am looking forward to following as more is revealed!:seeya:

 

[zwiebel]

IHAVENOCLUE, I think this is the most intriguing case too, although I'm astounded that I've done so much sleuthing and have found precisely nothing new! Still trying though. I'm not going to let a little thing like three foreign languages, four different countries and over half a century put me off!

 

[Marilynilpa]

IHAVENOCLUE, I think this is the most intriguing case too, although I'm astounded that I've done so much sleuthing and have found precisely nothing new! Still trying though. I'm not going to let a little thing like three foreign languages, four different countries and over half a century put me off!

It is so interesting to learn all this stuff about Anna. I spent a great deal of time researching William and Alice's families, and know them like I know the back of my hand. But Anna was an enigmatic presence in their lives, and I didn't do much to develop a background for her.

All of you guys are getting acknowledged in my book when it's published. If I can't find someone to publish it by mid-2013, then it will be e-published.

I want so badly to put Alice's story out there for everyone to read about. She deserves it.

 

[zwiebel]

Marilynilpa, I hope you have an agent. I don't want an e-book, I want one I can keep on my bookshelf!

 

[badhorsie]

ETA; Having said that, if you scroll down to about eight lines from the bottom on this page, you will see at 1d there is a member of the Yugoslavian royal family born, called Alexander, in 1924. It may be nothing, but he was born in White Lodge, Richmond, Surrey. Coincidence? Or could Anna have been a servant in their house? She was recorded as living in Richmond when she emigrated to the US in 1926. http://www.almanachdegotha.org/id42.html

I am going to have a little try with Anna's maiden name to see if that proves more fruitful. Wish we had a Russian speaker on this thread though......

Snipped and BBM. This is probably a silly question, in my defence I have just finished a 12 h shift and am tired, but would Lithuanian help?

 

[zwiebel]

Welcome to Alice's thread, badhorsie! I'm sure Lithuanian is going to be more help than my poor German.

Any suggestions for other spellings of Malapieratvirtsa? This is the place in the former Yugoslavia where Alex was supposed to have come from, but I think it was badly heard or spelled on his arrival at Ellis Island in the 20s. I can't find a trace of it.

O/T What's my dog doing on your Christmas card, looking so unusually clean and tidy?